CFM rule of thumb?

[drunkgamer]

BTW, this is a random question I know - and probably impossible to answer because it matters on SO many things - but is there a general rule of thumb for how much CFM you want in a case if you have a typical build (modern mobo, 2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 1 high end gpu, etc.)?

I realize it depends on where the fans are placed, what they are blowing on or pulling air from, yadda yadda.

But assume that they are well placed (say two intake, 2 exaust, and 2 blowing on the mobo/gpu area)...and 120mm's.

Someone should make a smart calculator you can enter parameters, location, etc. and give you rough guideline Then again, if you OC it matters too I guess.

I realize too all that matters is checking your temps since some boards also run hotter, etc. but just in case there is an old chineese secret I need to know about, please share it

 

[0roo0roo]

just have enough so nothing is burning hot to the touch.
its not that big a deal. you want a minimum of fan noise without making things too hot. todays cpus aren't all that hot anymore. and decent cases with 1-2 120mm really don't need silly things like blowholes.

 

[Roguestar]

Enough to cool the case. It's quite possible to overthink these things, there aren't rules.

 

[DSF]

If you have two 120mm fans blowing in, two out, and two directly on the circuitry you aren't going to have any problems.

I have one low-noise (and therefore relatively low flow) intake, one low-noise exhaust, and my system is fine with an 880GT and an overclocked E4500. As Roguestar said, don't overthink things too much. Do you have a specific system in mind?

Also, some cases are better designed than others when it comes to cooling.

 

[drunkgamer]

BTW, I am not trying to overthink or underthink (but I do analyze too much) but rather learn and understand.

Well. Yes, the system I have in mind right now is:

LATEST BUILD
PROCESSOR: Intell E8500 ($290)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115036
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ($300)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131284
MEMORY: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit [5-5-5-15] ($90)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
GPU: EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX(G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 ($300)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814130339
HARD DRIVES (primary): Western Digital Velociraptor ($300)
Not out until may
HARD DRIVE (secondary): Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb ($110)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136218
OPTICAL DRIVES: Lite-On 20x LH-20A1L 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner with LightScribe ($34)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827106072
POWER SUPPLY: PC Power & Cooling QUAD S75QB EPS12V 750W Power Supply ($160)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16817703009&Tpk=S75QB
CASE: Lian Li PC-A70 ($250)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811112141
CPU COOLER: ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler ($62)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16835118019
FAN CONTROLLER: Zalman MFC1 Plus-B Black 6 Channel Multi Fan Controller ($32)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811999171

 

[Roguestar]

Why the E8500 and not the E8400? That motherboard is complete overkill, get a $100~ one like the Gigabyte P35 DS3L. Power supply is overkill too, and your CPU cooler (as much as I like it) isn't fantastic; there are better ones for the same money.

 

[DSF]

As Roguestar said, everything I'd heard about the Zalman cooler is that it's not worth the price.

Before I immediately say the X48 is a waste (although it most likely is) what made you choose that chipset?

In your quest for cooling, are you interested in low noise, or just getting the best cooling possible?

A 750W power supply is also more than you need to pay for. If you want that wattage rating, pick up the Corsair 750TX which is considerably less expensive but still a quality product.

 

[0roo0roo]

yea an antec p182 type case would reduce noise.

 

[drunkgamer]

I am now starting to question the board as well.

It came recommended to me from someone on Tom's Hardware. The board does have great reviews no matter where you look but...I just don't know how much of an OCer I'm going to be and that is a big advantage for that board.

I think also having PCIE2.0 in case the new cards from Nvidia/ATI in July+ make more use of it, slightly better memory manager (?), etc.

But yeah initially I had settled on the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16813128059) from what people said and it seemed a safe board for my first build.

But I guess after having the same computer for 4 years (minus 2 video card upgrades), I wanted to feel like I was getting something 'new' and exciting. Skipping DDR3, but at least a newer chipset.

Also the FSB being 1333 max, I've read it prohibits some aspect of OCing with the 1333 E8400's, etc.

But I might just switch back to the DS3L, get the 1066 G.Skill DDR2, E8400, and then only OC the processor a fair amount and enjoy the system

Thoughts?

 

[Roguestar]

Uh what? The FSB 1333MHz doesn't mean you can't overclock it with DDR2. Read my post in this thread about FSB:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2181248&enterthread=y

 

[drunkgamer]

Originally posted by: DSF
As Roguestar said, everything I'd heard about the Zalman cooler is that it's not worth the price.

You know, I spent some time reading the installation guide for the Zalman 9700 just to know what to expect since this is my first time...and I didn't like what I read about the single clip that holds it in after feeling it's weight in Fry's. I never knew any of these upper-tier units were so BIG.

Then I decided to read some reviews on NewEgg when sorting by eggs and many of the lower reviews complained of it moving around and breaking the thermal seal, etc.

I figure since it's an older product, much of that review base could be in comparison to what was out then, but yes, there seem to be better, newer products. Also I want something that fits securely or at least for a newbie, doesn't give me as much room to have a bad seating.

I read these in doing research:
http://www.frostytech.com/arti...?articleid=2233&page=5
http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

Reviews http://www.newegg.com/Product/...35233003&Tpk=HDT-S1283 seem to be good although much less # since it's newer. And cheaper.

Just need to make sure it can fit either the DS3L or Rampage Formula and that I can seat it well.

Q Do you think for the way there are super tiny seperations on the bottom between tin and copper that it is better to spread the paste a little rather than the single line as those gaps soak up the extra anyway? vs. them soaking some up and it not getting to the edges..

So I am checking out Xigmatek HDT-S1283 since it seems simple and effective. Just wanting to read other reviews and see how it is mounted.

Thoughts?

 

[drunkgamer]

Originally posted by: Roguestar
Uh what? The FSB 1333MHz doesn't mean you can't overclock it with DDR2. Read my post in this thread about FSB:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2181248&enterthread=y

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you can't OC it because of course you can. But from reading some posts, it seems that since the proc is designed for 1333 and the bus is 1333, when you OC the proc, it strains the bus more since the bus can't go higher vs. using a board with 1600 potential. Doesn't mean you can't do it but they were implying it's not as efficient.

I'm not sure if these guys were correct and even still that is only a small reason to get the board. I think half of it is just wanting to feel that I'm getting something 'new' but I think the timing is just bad.

Prob. same results to stick with DS3L, 1066 memory DDR2, and E8400 and cheap but effective gaming rig?

I plan to upgrade once Nahalem products have stabalized (CPU and mobos) which I imagine is not until next June/July at least... So need 1 to 1.5 years from this build.

For example, I was considering http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128086

That is the same as the DS3L as far as I can tell minus two more sata ports (good) and the front side bus can go 1600 OC.

Will that board give more benefit from the OCed proc. all things being equal than the DS3L?

 

[Modelworks]

Also keep in mind that people can be somewhat obsessive about temps.
When you talk about how hot something is they tend to use what they are most familiar with as a point of reference.

So when you say a cpu is 120F people think that is super hot, and it is to people.
Cpu are not people, obviously, and 120F is like a walk in the park.

The DS3L is a great board, but it has one problem.
If you happen to screw up the bios flashing, assuming you need to, there is a 99% chance you will have to replace the entire board.

Go with something that has a socketed or actual dual bios.
Avoid the virtual dual bios boards.

The DS3R does have dual bios chips so I would go for that.

 

[drunkgamer]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Also keep in mind that people can be somewhat obsessive about temps.

I'm learning that ain't the only thing brother.

Here is a site that I love reading (waiting for my login to get approved so I can post on the darn forums) so I'm not trying to make fun of anything but this thread floored me:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...d.php?t=173999&page=84

They are actually going into places, checking and comparing batch numbers, dates, etc. all in hopes of getting that nth degree more from a particular run.

On one hand I can understand wanting to get as high as you can but this is almost like stalking a CPU. Is it a felony in some states?

But I also need to realize to many, they probably have more fun trying to constantly tweak and build the most for least than actually use it for anything meaningful like midget pr0n and gaming.

But yes, I just want a stable rig and as fast as possible without sacrificing stability.

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The DS3L is a great board, but it has one problem.
If you happen to screw up the bios flashing, assuming you need to, there is a 99% chance you will have to replace the entire board.

Ugh are you serious? Well, that is definitely a downer. Is the DS3R the same way?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: drunkgamer
.

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The DS3L is a great board, but it has one problem.
If you happen to screw up the bios flashing, assuming you need to, there is a 99% chance you will have to replace the entire board.

Ugh are you serious? Well, that is definitely a downer. Is the DS3R the same way?

The DS3R has two physical bios chips.
So if you happen to have a bad flash you can switch to the other bios.

The DS3L has a software dual bios.
It supposedly stores a copy of the bios on the hard drive and uses that should the main bios fail. The problem is you have to have just the right file system, with no raid setup, and even then it doesn't work most of the time.

 

[Davegod]

Originally posted by: drunkgamer

I read these in doing research:
http://www.frostytech.com/arti...?articleid=2233&page=5
http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

FWIW their top 5's don't tie up with the trend from the several other website's roundup's I've read. The TR Ultra 120 being above the TRUE is a bit of a giveaway, and it doesn't make sense to have the lowest noise HSF having two 92mm's when there's heatsinks with single 120mm's.

I also can't buy the stock cooler being in second place. Hang on, at the bottom it says "Heatsinks are ranked according to the lowest decibel reading measured, while the fan is at its maximum speed". A very big part of being a "quiet" heatsink is due to being a very efficient one that allows the fan to run at the lowest speed for the most amount of time. Rating heatsinks purely as an inverse of how loud you can possibly make them is telling a passenger a smaller aeroplane is safer simply because there's less people to crash in it.

 

[drunkgamer]

FWIW their top 5's don't tie up with the trend from the several other website's roundup's I've read. .

Can you point me somewhere to read and learn more. I originally went with Zalman because all I heard (read) was Zalman Zalman and it has the most reviews and positive percentage of any cooler on Newegg (specially the 9700).

So you cant argue with the numbers - if you are to believe them and NewEgg.

But I really dont like how it attaches and for a noob, I want something a bit more foolproof - if something like that exists.

The Xigmatek HDT-S1283 seems to have great reviews. Whether it is in top 5 or top 10 or #1 I dont care, im not some extreme OCer. Hell Ive never even OCed but want to learn.

I just want a functional fan without headaches but as good of a performer as I can find within those parameters.

But Id like to read your links.

I was going to try the TR Ultra 120, especially for not having a fan it seems to do well, but the reviews on NewEgg were not as gracious as I thought and a lot of it has to do with there being mill marks on the heatsink base, it being concave at times, need to lap it, etc.

That is too much for me

 

[Davegod]

these days many of the top end HSF's are attached in a way I think you're not going to like, they're pretty heavy so most are secured by a plate on the rear side of the motherboard (not such a problem for a new build). Personally I don't fancy trusting a vibrating, levered three-quarters of a kilogram on little plastic push pins.

My personal opinion is that if you're not overclocking or particularly keen for a quiet PC the stock cooler is good. I don't see any appeal in buying an aftermarket cooler unless you are one of the above, in which case surely you want to go for one of the best. YMMV.

there's Anandtech's Noctua NH-U12P review which serves as something of a roundup for several top end coolers. Unfortunately no Zalman so your cooler isnt compared. I'd just be googling again to find the other roundups, I only remembered the AT one since, well, it's the AT one of a cooler I was considering.

Actually I think HSF reviews are generally appalling. Some science is needed to control external variables rather than simply swap hardware around and push buttons on benchmark software. Then there's the common practice of having a chart that starts at 30C - yes I know 0C is far from zero k but it merely serves to exaggerate the inherent error - 35C is not 40% better than 37C, which is how it would look on such a chart. My idle temp changes more than that.

 

[HelpMeBuildIt]

Wow that is a nice cooler. Too bad NewEgg doesn't have it...

Availability can be a pain. It seems to mount very securely though hard to see exactly how it happens but I suppose you can get the manual from their site.

As or the other cooler mentioned, it seems to be very nice as well minus the plastic clips to secure it with.

Im not sure if overtime all that weight on the plastic clips would hold up well. But seems they are offering a solution:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=36119

(read about the offer to send out a mounting bracket)