Change Yes, Ron Paul No

statusquobuster

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2007
4
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Change Yes, Ron Paul No

Joel S. Hirschhorn

Americans want a real political leader, a real change agent. Ron Paul has never been a change agent. He is a change-talker. His claim to fame is voting against legislation, not writing bold legislation to produce change that actually became law.

Ron Paul?s obnoxious supporters like more traditional political activists can spin and delude themselves about election results. But the Iowa caucus results could not be clearer: The vast national desire for political change is manifesting itself through support for both Democratic and Republican change-candidates. Despite Paul being flush with money and having a large number of workers in Iowa, he was solidly rejected as the leading change agent.

Even with a huge historic turnout of about 348,000 participants, Paul did not attract significant numbers of independents that could easily participate in the Republican caucuses. They went to Obama, Edwards and Huckabee.

On the Democratic side, of some 232,000 people that turned out for the caucuses, nearly doubling what it was four years ago, about 70 percent wanted change and went for Obama and Edwards, roughly 150,000 participants.

On the Republican side, of the 116,000 participants, about 40,000 change-voters went for Huckabee, compared to 11,600 that chose Paul, giving him fifth place. That 10 percent for Paul was very close to the 9 percent found in a Des Moines Register poll of likely caucus voters (margin of error 3.5 points). Interestingly, like Paul, Huckabee also wants to eliminate the federal income tax.

In both parties, change-voters totaled about 200,000. So Paul received just 6 percent of that large fraction, and just 3 percent of the total of all caucus participants in Iowa. Paul was first in only one county, Jefferson, with 36 percent

Edwards was absolutely correct when he summed things up this way: ?The one thing that is clear from the results in Iowa tonight is the status quo lost and change won.?

With all the hoopla from Paul supporters about younger people being for Paul, that?s not what the Iowa results showed. Younger people seeking change and inspiration flocked to Obama, in particular. There was no demographic in Iowa that overwhelmingly went for Paul. Sure, Paul beat Giuliani, but Paul?s effort in Iowa was much bigger than Giuliani?s.

None of these results will impact Paul?s supporters nationwide. Earl Ofari Hutchinson wrote a great article on Alternet.org: ?Ron Paul is Scary, But Those Who Cheer Him Are Even Scarier.? He was right when he said: ?The scariest thing about GOP presidential contender Ron Paul is not his fringe, odd-ball racial views. It is that people take him seriously.? But now Iowa has thankfully shown that the vast majority of Americans, especially those seeking political change, reject Paul.

After losing badly in Iowa Paul said: ?The other candidates talk about tinkering with the status quo. We don?t want to tinker; we want to change the status quo.? He said that his campaign is on the upswing and gaining support among independents, frustrated Republicans and unhappy Democrats. Just one very big problem: The Iowa results show that all these people are much more likely to vote for other Democratic and Republican change-candidates.

Paul?s supporters claim that he will do much better in New Hampshire where Libertarian Party members hold a number of offices. I don?t think so. Several polls taken before the Iowa results found Paul at just 5 to 9 percent. Will Paul get a big boost from Iowa? I don?t think so. Paul had predicted he could finish in third place in Iowa, and many of his supporters think he will do that in New Hampshire. I don?t think so. Paul will likely finish fifth in New Hampshire, in large part because more independents will go to Obama and McCain.

When Paul first ran for president as the Libertarian Party candidate in 1988, he won just 0.54 percent of the vote. Iowa shows that his second presidential bid will not produce much better results. Paul is definitely not tapping in a major way into the national populist movement, major desire for political change, anti-status quo sentiment, or even the anti-Iraq war issue. Clearly, other Democratic and Republican change-candidates are doing much better. This reality will not affect Paul?s passionate, cult-like followers that are solidified like cement in their belief that Paul can and should be our next president, something that Paul himself probably never really believed.

Most Americans can appreciate what Paul?s supporters cannot see: Paul is a change talker who has never shown any capabilities to be a real leader and a real change agent. His supporters are too clouded by self-delusion to honestly question and understand why the vast majority of Americans seeking political change reject Paul. They want a revolution and so do I. Whether any of the current crop of presidential candidates can produce a much needed Second American Revolution is doubtful. Still, we must keep seeking it.

[Joel S. Hirschhorn can be reached through www.delusionaldemocracy.com.]


As has been mentioned, there needs to be comment by the OP.
Locked
Hayabusa Rider
Anandtech Moderator
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Agree with Joel's opinion 100% :thumbsup:

Paul is about as much of a "change" agent as Hillary Clinton.

His supporters learned a tough lesson in Iowa. You can't spam a caucus, and voting is not done via the internet. :laugh:
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
That's because Americanas don't actually want change. If they did, they'd vote for somebody willing to take a big risk but as a whole they are fearful and not willing to take risks, so they embrace the status quo with only mild changes in their tolerable risk zone.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,001
8,033
136
It would be nice if there was a better candidate to hold the ideals of liberty, but there isn?t. As for Americans, they don?t want liberty, they want power over each other and the federal government is the means to an end.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
That's because Americanas don't actually want change. If they did, they'd vote for somebody willing to take a big risk but as a whole they are fearful and not willing to take risks, so they embrace the status quo with only mild changes in their tolerable risk zone.
:thumbsup:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,280
6,346
126
"Whether any of the current crop of presidential candidates can produce a much needed Second American Revolution is doubtful. Still, we must keep seeking it."

Hirschhorn says it all right there. He shows himself to be a writer who writes about change but proposes nothing that will bring about change. He likes the idea of change but not change itself. He has no real vision of change, no sense of whose vision is what. He's an agent of the status quo, a cols water, wet blanket, spoiler and pessimist. He wants change, my ass.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Moonbeam is the one who has the correct take on Hirschhorn, the question is weather Moonbeam ideals can bring about change either.

The American delusion has always been in thinking we are above the same natural reality that governs other lesser nations. And in that sense, GWB has been our perfect leader, showing us why that kind of thinking does not work as we vainly try to make it work. And if brute force does not work, we must try more brute force. And to compound the mess, we allow corporations to buy our candidates and then corporations can use the US taxpayer to do their heavy lifting for them.

And now Dr Paul comes with a simple Utopian message that we need tiny government. Which will not sell until the day we can no longer afford any government at all.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Wow, Hillary posts on atp&n to steal 10 of Ron Pauls votes. :laugh:

I don't want the second amendment changed, among some others.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
RP is too fringe. Some of his ideas are ridiculous, not all, but some. His supporters do not recognize that and simply take it as gospel. Zealots aren't embraced easily.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
George Bush brought change.

We need change, but it has to be in the right direction. Further increasing the size and power of the federal government is NOT the direction we should be going.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,190
12,501
136
Originally posted by: SirStev0
I thought the rule was no linking and running? Mods?

While I agree with the OP, he IS supposed to add some personal comments...time for a lock.
 

joshw10

Senior member
Feb 16, 2004
806
0
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Agree with Joel's opinion 100% :thumbsup:

Paul is about as much of a "change" agent as Hillary Clinton.

His supporters learned a tough lesson in Iowa. You can't spam a caucus, and voting is not done via the internet. :laugh:

10% is not bad considering almost no one outside of the internet knows he is a presidential candidate (the few that do probably just see him as someone on the list that's not going to win, therefore not worth their vote). He did practically as good as McCain and Thompson, both household names and really celebrity candidates. His name recognition among actual voters is probably similar to All Your Base Are Belong To Us, LOLCAT, and I has a bucket. Not much he can do about it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
The point is that Ron Paul ideals will last and resonate while the messenger is shunned.

In some ways he is like Ross Perot before him, but as we see, it can't be repressed. Sooner or later reality will force some of his ideas to be adopted by the major parties.

Which is why I am against censoring it now.
 

joshw10

Senior member
Feb 16, 2004
806
0
0
Hard to find a good messenger for this kind of message. You can't put Ron Paul's message in a younger, smooth talking candidate with million dollar consultants, focus group testing, and all the crap it actually takes to win these days. Because people with that kind of ability are generally dishonest, probably because their whole life they could get away with it
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: Lemon law
The point is that Ron Paul ideals will last and resonate while the messenger is shunned.

In some ways he is like Ross Perot before him, but as we see, it can't be repressed. Sooner or later reality will force some of his ideas to be adopted by the major parties.

Which is why I am against censoring it now.

:thumbsup:
 

dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,627
45
91
Is the OP some kind of Fox news establishment shill? Dissing Ron Paul with your crap 2 posts? You bore me.
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
3,066
0
0
I like paul a lot, and I want him to win, cause I don't trust any of the other politicians to do what they actually say and it will be more of the same bs that we've had for the last 20 some years. I, like others, would just wish he wasn't so crazy with some issues. If he toned it down a bit, and didn't bring attention to himself about the crazy topics he might actually do better. Now the catch 22 is that if he wasn't black and white like he is, would he even be the man he is now? His ideas are different and that is what is important..change. Is America ready for it? Apparently not. I think the big issue is still that the majority of people don't vote still, they just complain. blah the government sucks..blah blah blah...but then they don't vote and let a bunch of old people who have nothing better to do decide how the country will be ran. People get caught up with the media and just get fed up with it..The system truely sickens me at times.

I wish that Kucinich got more attention like paul does. I think Kucinich is quite sane, and a passionate person, and if he had the grassroot campaign that pual did I think he would be doing quite well. But as it is, no one talks to him, no one hears from him, and he gets no media coverage. He is a lot like paul in his truthfullness, intelligence, and no bs kind of stances. He is much bigger government than paul but I think I would trust what both of them say, which really to me, is like 70% of my vote.

I don't trust Hilary...at all...
Obama seems like he is BS as well. He is a good speaker but I think thats all he really is.
Edwards seems more trustworthy to me, but I have nothing to base that off of.

None of the republicans, but Paul and maybe McCain seem like they would just say it how it is.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
That's because Americanas don't actually want change. If they did, they'd vote for somebody willing to take a big risk but as a whole they are fearful and not willing to take risks, so they embrace the status quo with only mild changes in their tolerable risk zone.

true but as was stated in the above article Ron whats his name is all talk and no action!!

My own personnal opinion is I think as a country we are ready for somebody like O`Bama to be president!!
Quite possibly things would be different if Ron whats his name was a Democrat......

Peace!!


 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: dualsmp
Is the OP some kind of Fox news establishment shill? Dissing Ron Paul with your crap 2 posts? You bore me.

Obvoiously a Ron whats his name zealot...attacking the OP because he cannot attack the message.....or cannot comprehend or even read the message!!

why attack the OP.....add some substance to your posts!
Anybody can call what the OP posted as crap without reading it!!

things that make you go hmmm...
 

dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,627
45
91
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: dualsmp
Is the OP some kind of Fox news establishment shill? Dissing Ron Paul with your crap 2 posts? You bore me.

Obvoiously a Ron whats his name zealot...attacking the OP because he cannot attack the message.....or cannot comprehend or even read the message!!

why attack the OP.....add some substance to your posts!
Anybody can call what the OP posted as crap without reading it!!

things that make you go hmmm...

You can't even fathom how precious Ron Paul is to this country. Why don't you stab yourself with a light saber or something and do us a favor.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
The phenomenon I'm most interested in is when RP fanatics say things like "Well, if RP doesnt get the nom, I'll probably vote for Obama."

Do they have any clue just how ideologically opposed these two candidates are!?! It boggles my mind how one could go from one to the other so easily!

in fact, I thought about making a thread on that very subject...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,625
50,834
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The phenomenon I'm most interested in is when RP fanatics say things like "Well, if RP doesnt get the nom, I'll probably vote for Obama."

Do they have any clue just how ideologically opposed these two candidates are!?! It boggles my mind how one could go from one to the other so easily!

in fact, I thought about making a thread on that very subject...

Well, it seems to me that the people who say that are more interested in shaking up the establishment and getting it out of its current cycle of corruption then they are with any particular policy goals. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that.

I read a good blog post today though which I think was spot on... if Obama does manage somehow to win the nomination I'll be interested to watch a bunch of people on the right who say that Obama is okay right now turn on him like rabid dogs.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The phenomenon I'm most interested in is when RP fanatics say things like "Well, if RP doesnt get the nom, I'll probably vote for Obama."

Do they have any clue just how ideologically opposed these two candidates are!?! It boggles my mind how one could go from one to the other so easily!

in fact, I thought about making a thread on that very subject...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The clue you can't fathom palehorse74 is that Obama is in the middle on the political spectrum and Paul and GWB are at opposite extremes.

And the myth Republicans are wallowing in is that somehow they are the safe conservatives and the dems are the leftist radicals. When the very opposite is now true and the dominant reality.

And with GWB, not only are they being dangerous leftist radicals, GWB&co. are totally incompetent leftists radicals that flop faster than the speed of light.

 
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