Charlie D Claim Watch

Soleron

Senior member
May 10, 2009
337
0
71
Here is (probably) every claim made about Fermi or related products made by Charlie in his articles. Post will be updated when reviews come out so we can see his track record. Some details may not actually appear in reviews and some will only emerge when stock does/doesn't become availible, but we should be able to tell whether he's had insider info or just made everything up.

[x] = Confirmed, [O] = Wrong, [?] = Don't Know

A look at the Nvidia GT300 architecture (May 14, 2009)
Miracles happen, GT300 tapes out! (July 29, 2009)
Four more GT300 variants tip up (August 5, 2009)
GT300 to have an NVIO chip (August 13, 2009)
Nvidia GT300 yields are under 2% (September 15, 2009)
Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market (October 6, 2009)
Nvidia finally gets Fermi A2 taped out (November 2, 2009)
Fermi massively misses clock targets (November 16, 2009)
Fermi A3 silicon is in the oven (December 10, 2009)
Nvidia castrates Fermi to 448SPs (December 21, 2009)
Nvidia GF100 pulls 280W and is unmanufacturable (January 17, 2010)
Nvidia's Fermi GTX480 is broken and unfixable (February 17, 2010)
SemiAccurate gets some GTX480 scores (February 20, 2010)
Nvidia threatens it's partners at CeBIT (March 2, 2010)
SemiAccurate wrong about Nvidia 480GTX power use (March 12, 2010)
Nvidia tapes out GF108 (March 17, 2010)
Nvidia forces garbage on those wanting GTX480s (March 23, 2010)
Nvidia bends the definition of honesty in GTX480 benches (March 23, 2010)

--

A look at the Nvidia GT300 architecture (May 14, 2009)

[x] Nvidia says October 15 launch date, he disagrees
With no spins and perfect execution, he says November
With one spin, you're into next year (into Q1)
With two spins, you'll have a hard time hitting Q1
Two spins is the most likely looking at past products
[x] Won't come close to R870 [This means the dual-card which we now know as 5970, not the RV870 5870]
Whole article focuses on how the chip is focused on GPGPU, many months before Nvidia announce it as such

Miracles happen, GT300 tapes out! (July 29, 2009)

[?] Late July tapeout
Mid-December for first parts on shelves if no new spins, add 8 weeks per spin [1 spin means February, 2 spins

means April]
[?] Die size of 530mm^2
[x] "Vapourware for 2009"

Four more GT300 variants tip up (August 5, 2009)

[?] Four derivative parts, none taped out by then

GT300 to have an NVIO chip (August 13, 2009)

[?] GT300 has an NVIO chip

Nvidia GT300 yields are under 2% (September 15, 2009)

[?] First A1 silicon back in early September
[?] Low single-digit yields for A1 stepping
[?] 104 die candidates per wafer

Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market (October 6, 2009)

[x] All mentioned parts soon to be EOL [in retrospect, he's still saying they did stop production of new GT200 parts and what we see in the channel is very small numbers of warehouse stock coming out, which matches up with the poor stock situation]
[?] No Fermi derivatives taped out
[?] Now claiming 530mm^2 to be a minimum estimate, now claims 23.x by 23.x mm^2

Nvidia finally gets Fermi A2 taped out (November 2, 2009)

[?] A2 taped out a few weeks previously; A2 samples in December
Risk wafers. If A2 was OK then February [matches with earlier estimate for one spin]
If A3 needed then put into March for samples/paper launch
Claims Nvidia is estimating March internally, implying he believes March to be the most likely date
[?] No Fermi derivatives taped out

Fermi massively misses clock targets (November 16, 2009)

[?] Still claiming >530mm^2 die size
[x] 20% clockspeed miss [taking into account later claims of 1500MHz shaders being the internal target, that means 1200MHz.] [They did get 1400MHz, but not at 512 shaders. It would have been 1200MHz at 512]

Fermi A3 silicon is in the oven (December 10, 2009)

[?] Nvidia begins an A3 stepping
[?] First silicon to be back in early January
If risk wafers are still valid, then late February (6+2 weeks). If not, then late March (10+2 weeks).
[?] First A3 silicon able to be shown at CES (no guarantee, just estimating from timing)
[x] Best case: Feb 1; Worst case: April 1 Average case: mid-March. Thinks A4 is unlikely.
[?] Clocks for A2 are 500MHz half-core implying 1000MHz
- A3 will up clocks.
[x] Says that a 500MHz/1000MHz/512SP Fermi would barely beat the 5870 (Since a 1400MHz/480 has a 10-15% lead, a 1000MHz/512SP would beat about level with a 5870)
[?] 'Alarming' yields on A2 [EDIT: Let's say this means single-digit]

Nvidia castrates Fermi to 448SPs (December 21, 2009)

[x] Fermi will only have 448 SPs on Tesla variants.
[x] Says that a 448 SP version will only barely fit in 225W TDP
Speculates that since Tesla is really expensive and small volume, you'd think they would have their best bins in there. As a result, he doesn't expect any consumer versions to also be only 448 shaders and hot.
Fermi may beat Cypress by a little, but more expensive and much hotter

Nvidia GF100 pulls 280W and is unmanufacturable (January 17, 2010)

[?] Revised die size estimate of 550mm^2 (on forums he says initial estimate was only 23.x mm^2 by 23.x mm^2, not precise, and he said the lower figure earlier but new sources mean that .x is higher so therefore ~550.)
Repeats claim of 104 die candidates per wafer
[?] Says a 512SP version of GF100 would pull 280W.
[x] Says initial GF100 chips will be 448 shaders and downclocked considerably. Initial target was 1500-1600MHz but shipping cards will be 1400MHz halo part and 1200MHz 'volume bin'. (Update: and indeed, the 470 is 1250MHz and the 480 1400MHz. If the 480 has real availibility I'll revert this)
[?] Mentions the 'voltage versus amperage' thing contributing to high power consumption
[x] Says no Fermi derivatives will come out before ATI completes its Evergreen lineup
[x] AIBs will get samples in late Feb, March launch

Nvidia's Fermi GTX480 is broken and unfixable (February 17, 2010)

[?] Top bin will launch with 448 shaders and 1200MHz shader clock. A3 did not up clock speeds. (Depends on what he meant by top bin)
[?] Single digit yields
[?] Internal expectations were 1500-1600MHz.
- Reaffirms 280W power draw.
[o] Estimates performance of 448 shaders / 1200MHz as 12% better than the 5870 (was actually worse than he predicted)

SemiAccurate gets some GTX480 scores (February 20, 2010)

[o] GTX480 has 512 shaders, 1200 or 1250MHz shader clock
[x] GTX470 has 448 shaders, 1250MHz shader clock
[o] GTX480 is ~5% faster than a HD5870 (actual: 10-15%, but then he was saying that for different specs to the launch card so it probably works out)
[x] GTX480 will beat an HD 5970 in Unigine on highly tesselated segments
[x] This performance will not be reflected in any other game with tesselation
[?] Nvidia will only have 5000-8000 GTX 480s on launch and will not be producing any more

Nvidia threatens it's partners at CeBIT (March 2, 2010)

[x] GTX470 will perform like an HD 5850

SemiAccurate wrong about Nvidia 480GTX power use (March 12, 2010)

[?] Fermi Tesla cards will have a TDP of 275W (Note: he clarified on forum that this figure was not for the 480, only Tesla)

Nvidia tapes out GF108 (March 17, 2010)

[?] GF108 taped out, will be out in late July / early August
[?] Other derivatives not taped out yet

Nvidia forces garbage on those wanting GTX480s (March 23, 2010)

[?] Retailers must purchase Fermi cards bundles of 10 GTX470s and 10 GTX480s. For each of the bundles, they have to buy 20 G210s, 20 GT220s, 20 GT240s and 20 GTS250s.

Nvidia bends the definition of honesty in GTX480 benches (March 23, 2010)

[?] GTX 480 specs revised to 1401MHz shader clock but only 480 shaders.
[x] The dishonesty in Dirt2 benches (read article for explanation) (Those sites that ran Dirt2 making sure the 480 was in DX11 showed parity, those that used a timedemo causing DX9 showed massive Nvidia lead.)
 
Last edited:

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
This is the important one, and he was wrong.

"Nvidia GF100 pulls 280W and is unmanufacturable (January 17, 2010)"

To me he was saying there will be no Fermi. After this statement, the rest don't matter.
 

1h4x4s3x

Senior member
Mar 5, 2010
287
0
76

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
I think the dishonesty referred to in the last article isn't so much about the 480 shaders as it is this:

GTX480 running Dirt2 demo

As it turns out, the numbers were indeed too good to be true. If you run the Dirt2 demo, the GTX470 and GTX480 drop back to DX9 mode, as you can see it in the picture above. Since they are doing far less work, frame rates go up. Running the DX11 code path drop frames by around 25 to 40 percent for the same work. In the game itself, DX11 works just fine on the GTX480, so it is likely that the demo lacked the correct profile for the then unreleased and 6 months out GTX4x0s.

For some odd reason, that point wasn't mentioned in the Nvidia slides SemiAccurate saw. Sources deep inside Santa Clara have told SemiAccurate that this wasn't due to the TWIMTBP budget cuts, it is probably just the old 'Nvidia honesty' coming forward once again. For some reason, the real numbers that compare DX11 to DX11 versions didn't make their press presentations even though the game had been out for months by then. Funny that.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/03/23/nvidia-bends-definition-honesty-gtx480-benches/

btw... If you're going to discuss his articles, you could at least give him the page hits. Not to mention that your thread would be a lot more user friendly with links to the referenced articles. (IMO)

edit: 1h4x4s3x has the right idea.
 

Soleron

Senior member
May 10, 2009
337
0
71
This is the important one, and he was wrong.

"Nvidia GF100 pulls 280W and is unmanufacturable (January 17, 2010)"

To me he was saying there will be no Fermi. After this statement, the rest don't matter.

If you read the article, he meant unmanufacturable in the sense that no profit-making company would be crazy enough to manufacture them given the yields.

He said on the forum that Nvidia would have canned Fermi altogether had they not already paid for risk wafers before A1 taped out. In other words, they're using up the supply of free wafers and not ever making any more, until the next stepping/revision. The <8000 GTX480s they do make aren't really intended to be sold for revenue, just to exist to make it not look like a total failure. Like the X800XT-PE, and even that had more than 8000.

I think that's fair enough.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
This is the important one, and he was wrong.

"Nvidia GF100 pulls 280W and is unmanufacturable (January 17, 2010)"

To me he was saying there will be no Fermi. After this statement, the rest don't matter.

I think he very well may be correct about the 280 watts, but on the 512 core part. He's claimed a few times (and have other sites from what I remember) that the final specs were not to be nailed down until pretty close to the release. So, now we have a 480 core part coming with the 512 core part coming in the future.

And from reading his article about 'broken and unmanufacturable' I don't believe he meant that it actually cannot be built and shipped, that doesn't seem to be what he was getting at to me.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
I thought it was already known that the gtx 480 is 250 watts?
And the gtx 470 is 215 watts ,correct?

What is unmanufacturable to you?
To me it means,you won't see it at all.
 
Last edited:

Soleron

Senior member
May 10, 2009
337
0
71
I thought it was already known that the gtx 480 is 250 watts?
And the gtx 470 is 215 watts ,correct?

I'm testing Charlie's claims only. Personally I believe those are correct, but Charlie has yet to write an article on them.

His explanation for the new numbers is that Nvidia only finalised the specs recently. He says on the forum the samples he got benches from (the '5&#37; above 5870' numbers) were from the 1300MHz/512 shader parts, but that more recent numbers on new samples with the new specs have similar performance to that.

So those other numbers may have been true at the time.

--

"What is unmanufacturable to you?"

READ the article. He explains what he means by that in the details. Never has he said it could not be built. The headlines are i) summarising, you can't expect full and precise meaning in 6-7 words and ii) sensationalist, to draw people in to reading it like any piece of journalism.

Whether he is right is entirerly independent of whether is writing is sensationalist or too emotionally charged. Here I'm testing the former only.
 
Last edited:

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
I thought it was already known that the gtx 480 is 250 watts?
And the gtx 470 is 215 watts ,correct?

What is unmanufacturable to you?
To me it means,you won't see it at all.
He was pretty clear in that he meant unmanufacturable for profit and high yields.. and that he was talking about the 512core part. He never said we would not ever see Fermi, in fact he thought the 480 would be released as a low yield 512 part until relatively recently.

How I understood his early rumours was that what we are getting in teh 480 was what he thought would be the 470, what he thought the 480 would be we won't see at all (or for a while).

The power consumption was also in reference to the 480 which at the time was a 512 core part.

We won't be able to know if he was right or wrong on either unless they release a 512 part.. if it is in high yield, not a new revision (B1 for instance), and does not consume 275W then he was wrong. If it doesn't come out until a new revision then he was likely correct about it, though we will never be able to test the power consumption (he claimed that the 512 would require a base layer re spin to have sufficient yields to be profitable).
 
Last edited:

veri745

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2007
1,163
4
81
.snip.

And from reading his article about 'broken and unmanufacturable' I don't believe he meant that it actually cannot be built and shipped, that doesn't seem to be what he was getting at to me.

I agree. I would take that to mean extremely low-quantity and low/negative margins.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Soleron Quote:

""What is unmanufacturable to you?"

READ the article. He explains what he means by that in the details. Never has he said it could not be built. The headlines are i) summarising, you can't expect full and precise meaning in 6-7 words and ii) sensationalist, to draw people in to reading it like any piece of journalism.

Whether he is right is entirerly independent of whether is writing is sensationalist or too emotionally charged. Here I'm testing the former only. """""


I see what your saying , but when I open the newspaper and it says "Phillies win" ,I assume the Phillies won, not kinda won. See what I'm saying.
He is a good bullshiter I'll give him that.
 
Last edited:

Soleron

Senior member
May 10, 2009
337
0
71
I see what your saying , but when I open the newspaper and it says "Phillies win" ,I assume the Phillies won, not kinda won. See what I'm saying.
He is a good bullshiter I'll give him that.

He's very good at getting pageviews like that.

But I suggest you read his forum posts rather than the articles. It's the same information (sometimes more), but he writes calmly and rationally, with none of the fanboy/raving attitude I see in his articles. He also responds to queries about the article, like how he said the 275W figure is only for Teslas and that he only assumed (not heard) that it would be for the 480 as well.

Even most real journalism I see had misleading/exaggerated headlines. Pick up a newspaper and look for it in the main stories.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
I see what your saying , but when I open the newspaper and it says "Phillies win" ,I assume the Phillies won, not kinda won. See what I'm saying.
He is a good bullshiter I'll give him that.

We best be seeing that headline a lot, Doc deserves it!


But yeah.. Charlie's headlines are a bit silly... But there are a lot of acceptable levels of manufacturable (for profit, in quantity, period, at spec, etc), not so much for a win in a baseball game.

If he had come out as said the 512 part was unmanufacturable there would be a case for him being correct as we won't be seeing any for a while.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
If you take all of his articles and read them all at once ,it seems he covers all the basis to where he can't be wrong.

It's like me writing the gtx 480 is 280 watts, but could be 275 watts , or 250 watts if it's cut down, but could possibly be the gtx 470 TDP?

See what I'm saying?
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
We best be seeing that headline a lot, Doc deserves it!


But yeah.. Charlie's headlines are a bit silly... But there are a lot of acceptable levels of manufacturable (for profit, in quantity, period, at spec, etc), not so much for a win in a baseball game.

If he had come out as said the 512 part was unmanufacturable there would be a case for him being correct as we won't be seeing any for a while.[/QUOTE]

Now this I do agree on.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
If you take all of his articles and read them all at once ,it seems he covers all the basis to where he can't be wrong.

It's like me writing the gtx 480 is 280 watts, but could be 275 watts , or 250 watts if it's cut down, but could possibly be the gtx 470 TDP?

See what I'm saying?

Aye, it does seem like that.. but rumours and facts are fluid and not absolute.

If I claimed that a new electric car would travel 300miles on a charge.. but it is released using old battery tech to save money it is not as simple as I am wrong.. On the surface I would clearly be wrong.. but for very different reasons than having no knowledge of a situation, things do change.

I'd rather look at the claims as: 'If X then Y', rather than 'Y will happen.' Certainly some of his claims are phrased as the latter, but many are formulated in the body of the text as 'given this info, y looks likely.'

It is a bit silly to make an absolute score card for something that is by no means absolute.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
The nvidia leaving the high end market claim is clearly wrong. Firstly I can go onto new egg and buy GTX 260, 275 and 285 many months after he said that. Second "leaving" is different from "end of life-ing", leaving means gone, no more. Nvidia by releasing fermi is clearly not gone from the high end market.

Really? I thought that meant unprofitable.

If you have to explain every claim he made as "what he actually meant was ...." then it makes you sound like some dumb politicians spin doctor. While you may have a good career ahead in politics that shouldn't really apply here. This isn't interpreting some ancient religious text or something. His claim should stand on the literal interpretation of what he wrote, not on how you can spin it.
 
Last edited:

Piotrsama

Senior member
Feb 7, 2010
357
0
76
Who actually had the time to do this??

+1

And BTW, Nvidia changed plans to improve yields (512 --> 480 cores), and who knows about gpu, mem. speeds changes...
So MAYBE, what charlie reported 6 months ago, was truth at that moment.

Just saying, I'm not taking sides here.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
The nvidia leaving the high end market claim is clearly wrong. Firstly I can go onto new egg and buy GTX 260, 275 and 285 many months after he said that. Second "leaving" is different from "end of life-ing", leaving means gone, no more. Nvidia by releasing fermi is clearly not gone from the high end market.



If you have to explain every claim he made as "what he actually meant was ...." then it makes you sound like some dumb politicians spin doctor. While you may have a good career ahead in politics that shouldn't really apply here. This isn't interpreting some ancient religious text or something. His claim should stand on the literal interpretation of what he wrote, not on how you can spin it.

But one has to explain every claim anyone makes as what they actually meant...

Unmanufafcturable means a billion different things to a billion different people.. it is a waste of time. So does abandoning (does it mean stopping production or taking all the cards in warehouse and burning them?).

This is not a mathematics paper where it is easy enough to see that "He said it will be 42, the answer was 32" and presto... This is an arbitrary collection of rumours over months that obviously changed as release got closer, there will always be a grey area.. Hence the total ridiculousness of trying to tally right or wrongs.. We can subjectively discuss that, yeah seems some of his info was close or not.. but we can't objectively grade it.. It is retarded..
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |