Cheap AR-15 DIY*Now with "Zombie" lower option*

[corwin]

thnx for the non-info... woho great help/ +1 million rep for you

Gee lets see here...

so how do you people buy these online for a good deal?

Here in TX I pay a $15-25 transfer fee, show my CHL and walk out the door with my prize.

Seems to me like I answered your question, sorry I don't live in a shit state that screws you at every turn...here's a better answer, move the hell out of California

 

[slightlyhuman]

tempting.. i said i was going to make a big fire arms purchase next year for my first AR.

few questions..

do i have to have my CHL to buy this? i live in texas(arkansas DL license) but have never bought a gun online and am little noobish to how it works. I do have a certified class 5(i think) dealer here in town.

 

[corwin]

tempting.. i said i was going to make a big fire arms purchase next year for my first AR.

few questions..

do i have to have my CHL to buy this? i live in texas(arkansas DL license) but have never bought a gun online and am little noobish to how it works. I do have a certified class 5(i think) dealer here in town.

No CHL required, that just simplifies the buying in that they don't have to do a background check when you pick it up...handgun purchases require an in state license but a stripped lower is considered a long gun so you should be fine with you AR DL. Just find a local FFL dealer who does transfers for as cheap as possible (AIM and Buds has FFL locators you can use as a start or just call your local dealers) and put in their info when you make the order, whoever you buy it from has to have a copy of their FFL on file though so you might have to have them fax it to the site, the the dealer will call you when it arrives and you go pick it up, really pretty simple. I've done a dozen buys online now and would be happy to help if you want to know anything else.

 

[NutBucket]

Just find a local FFL dealer who does transfers for as cheap as possible (AIM and Buds has FFL locators you can use as a start or just call your local dealers) and put in their info when you make the order, whoever you buy it from has to have a copy of their FFL on file though so you might have to have them fax it to the site, the the dealer will call you when it arrives and you go pick it up, really pretty simple. I've done a dozen buys online now and would be happy to help if you want to know anything else.

Basically this. There are guys operating out of their living room that will do it dirt cheap.

 

[wjgollatz]

I was a complete noob when it came to gunsmithing, until this year. I just built, alongside my a family member for some processes, three AR-15's from parts only, for different family members and myself.

You will need more than just basic tools, for the lower, and the upper. A poster on the first page probably forgot some of the tools needed. While building the stripper lower receiver is the most complicated part of the process,and requires the fewest specialty tools, the rest of the rifle will require specialty tools.

You will need a punch set, or just a few punches with with the curved "ball" end, roll spring punches. You will need some agility, a second set of hands, or a vice and a mag block that fits into the magazine well and vice, to sturdy the lower so you can hammer in the roll springs. I made my own mag block, with a beat up unuseable polymer mag I had laying around. Filled it with sand and epoxy on ends and drilled a dowel rod through it so the lower receiver sits on it where it should without having to rely on an installed mag catch. Or, buy one at a gun shop for $15. Most people do not have roll spring punches around, so you will need to buy one size for the lower, and at least one size extra for the upper.

The buttstock is considered part of the lower. Unless you are using an A1 or A2 style buttstock, you will need a buttstock wrench to tighten up the castle nut that keeps the stock attached to the lower receiver extension (that is essentially screwed into the back of the lower receiver).

So now - you can just buy an assembled upper, or build one yourself.

The upper will require parts you can't just can rig up yourself (or at least shouldn't unless you are already a machinist). You will need a small punch for the gas tube, and I think the same 3/16 punch for the A1/A2 sight assembly unless you are using a low profile gas block a picatinny rail front sight.

You will also need a torque wrench (for 20- 90 foot-lbs, actual, after converting it for the barrel wrench style you will also need need). You don't need a fancy barrel wrench, just get the GI version, use the torque wrench in parallel so you don't have to calculate actual torque.

You will also need an upper receiver action block so you can install the barrel. The upper receiver fits into the action block which forms a case around the upper receiver which you put into a vice. Or something similar to a Geissele Automatics action rod. If installing a delta ring (if not doing a free float handguard) you can get away with typical tools, just have to be careful)

You will need some special tools you might be able to rent or borrow, or some you have to buy.

roll spring punches (and hammer, no soft ends)
upper action block
lower action block
torque wrench
vice

youtube any videos you need, and go to brownells to watch their videos. You will not need every tool they have, buy you will need some of the specialty tools to completely assemble a rifle.

 

[killster1]

Ok i have moved on to lookimg at 80% lower and no ffl fees maybe buy five and a jig and sell three of them ... jist gotta decided .308 or 223

 

[wjgollatz]

The Wolf Gold ammo on Aim Surplus seems right about the price I'm accustomed to; hadn't looked in a good long while. What's really hard to come by at a good price these days is 9mm rounds.

No, never use Wolf Ammo. Nothing that is "Bi-metal" or steel on an AR platform. You can wear out your bolt, and the ramps, maybe even the lugs, unless you only shoot a small amount. Its just not worth increasing the probability of a failure, on a rifle on which you intend to use to defend your home.

Half of training should be dry firing. And there is a big move toward using lasers for training spurred by the cost of ammunition (even using airsoft rifles). Its not the same as the range, but its something you can practice with in your home. Its one thing to steadily aim your rifle down range from a bench, and another to shoot standing, and standing on your weak side. Its also important to dry fire practice that every time you lift your rifle, your muscle memory creates a perfect sight alignment. Not necessary perhaps in the day, but in your home and in the dark, you want to know you are ready to go in the pitch black. Not just for aiming, but all sorts of other exercises.

 

[wjgollatz]

Ok i have moved on to lookimg at 80% lower and no ffl fees maybe buy five and a jig and sell three of them ... jist gotta decided .308 or 223

You can't build the lower and then just sell them. That is absolutely illegal in all states. In order to sell it, you will have to apply to the ATF to make lower receiver you built (from an 80%) legal for sale. After the paperwork and fees, its not cost effective, unless the buyer really likes the custom engraving you did on the receiver. The 80% lowers are for people in communist states like CA, those who really like to build things and have great drill presses, and people who really want their own custom work and custom serial numbers (part of ATF application process, you a re required to furnish a serial number and a build location and stamp/engrave on the receiver)


.308s (AR-10's basically) have fewer parts available, and when they are, they are much more expensive than 5.56. If you are concerned about stopping power, use 69 and 77 grain sierra match king rounds, or similar, for self defense. The 77 grain smk's are what our snipers use for this caliber. They are actually hollowpoints, but get around Geneva conventions because they do not bloom outward. The hollow point is actually where the bullet is filled with lead. The lead goes though the point and fills the base evenly, making it a stable round, and the jacket is thinner, leading to a higher probability of fragmentation. Use the cheaper .223 rounds for range practice.

There is a great debate about the efficacy of using 6.5mm Grendel rounds. You could build an entire Ar-15 platform around this round, requiring a different barrel, bolt (and carrier I believe). This round uses the same STANAG magazine for M4/16/AR15 so its cheaper in that regard. The problem is round availability because its expensive and only one company makes them I believe. Also popular are the .300 Blackout rounds/barrel. Similar issues with procuring ammunition for it. So - its not just a 5.56 or .308 selection. The Blackouts I believe are popular with hunters.

 

[corwin]

You will need more than just basic tools, for the lower, and the upper. A poster on the first page probably forgot some of the tools needed. While building the stripper lower receiver is the most complicated part of the process,and requires the fewest specialty tools, the rest of the rifle will require specialty tools.

Nobody "forgot" any of the specialty tools, the upper that is listed is completely assembled...and I've built multiple lowers now with just a pair of vise grips, a hammer and some duct tape, that even included putting the castle nut on though a castle nut wrench is easier and you don't have to put tape around it to keep from scratching it

No, never use Wolf Ammo. Nothing that is "Bi-metal" or steel on an AR platform. You can wear out your bolt, and the ramps, maybe even the lugs, unless you only shoot a small amount. Its just not worth increasing the probability of a failure, on a rifle on which you intend to use to defend your home.

LOL...outdated information on a couple fronts. First there is no appreciable wear difference between steel cases and brass on the bolt ramps or lugs from multiple tests I have seen conducted, the bi-metal bullet does wear out the barrel faster but with the cost difference you can replace the barrel sooner and still come out ahead. But the bigger issue with your response is that the Wolf Gold ammo is both brass cased and full copper jacketed, so it completely doesn't apply. However if you want some real data on the difference between your average brass vs steel ammo read THIS

 

[rsolomon]

a stripped lower is considered a long gun so you should be fine with you AR DL

Maybe that varies by state - I seem to recall several online dealers noting you must be 21 for a stripped lower because it can be assembled into a pistol *OR* a rifle.

Richard

 

[rsolomon]

Ok i have moved on to lookimg at 80% lower and no ffl fees maybe buy five and a jig and sell three of them

Just to emphasize and clarify what was said earlier - iff you resell the 80% lowers *UNTOUCHED* then you are ok, otherwise it's "Go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200!" By completing a lower you've manufactured a firearm, and while it may be legal to do that yourself for yourself without paperwork, it's absolutely illegal to do it for someone else.

http://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry/general-questions
"With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms."

 

[corwin]

Maybe that varies by state - I seem to recall several online dealers noting you must be 21 for a stripped lower because it can be assembled into a pistol *OR* a rifle.

Actually you are correct, just did a little looking and a stripped lower is actually considered an "other" on the transfer form and requires you to be 21 to buy as well as a resident of the state you are purchasing it in...one of those fine print kind of things:\

 

[killster1]

Just to emphasize and clarify what was said earlier - iff you resell the 80% lowers *UNTOUCHED* then you are ok, otherwise it's "Go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200!" By completing a lower you've manufactured a firearm, and while it may be legal to do that yourself for yourself without paperwork, it's absolutely illegal to do it for someone else.

http://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry/general-questions
"With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms."

ya im well aware.. i have no plans on committing any felonies that dont involve saving mine or loved ones life etc.. the plan is to do them together and make a few.. maybe buy JIg or go to CNC machine shop.. seems like alot of hassle but a fun experience. just looking for the Right combo of jig / lower now .. be nice to get a bundle of 5 lowers and a jig that will last for all 5 wish could buy some 7.62 lowers too but that reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally looks like more work than i want to do till i finish the 100 projects im doing now.

 

[Nunya]

Anyone have a recommendation on some cheap ammo to plink at the range? Even the ammo at Walmart here seems expensive.

 

[Tsavo]

...and a magazine

Will Playboy do?

 

[corwin]

Anyone have a recommendation on some cheap ammo to plink at the range? Even the ammo at Walmart here seems expensive.

Everyone has a different opinion on what "cheap" is...I'm really cheap and shoot Tula and Wolf most of the time, my local Wally's have had Tula on the shelf consistently for months now at $5.27/20, I just know I'll have to replace my barrel after about 5k rounds Wolf also has a new line of brass cased full copper jacket ammo called Wolf Gold that is cheaper than the bigger brands at $6.99/20 but right now I have only found it at AIM Surplus so you'd have to add shipping. Otherwise pretty much everything else is around $10/20:\

Will Playboy do?

Maybe:sneaky:

 

[killster1]

Sorry i ruin the thread.. this isnt any how to for anything... w e tho,, make new ar hot deal next u see i enjoyed the. Upper parts. Thanks

 

[BlitzPuppet]

lol....

 

[corwin]

lol....

Indeed

 

[Svnla]

OP, how about post a video of how to build an AR (for dummies style). I surely like to build one but not sure how (even after watching a few YouTube videos).

Cheap brass (can't use steel case ammo at my range place) .223/5.56 = http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...arget-223-remington-55gr-50rds-356141000.html (less than $0.40/round even after shipping cost)

 

[corwin]

OP, how about post a video of how to build an AR (for dummies style). I surely like to build one but not sure how (even after watching a few YouTube video).

Oh hell...that would require me to tear one of mine apart Although I am heavily looking at buying some of those Spike's zombie lowers:awe:

It really is pretty damn easy though taking it one step at a time, AR15.com has some walk throughs that are very detailed as well...if I do decide to build myself another one I'll record the process and post it though

 

[Scarpozzi]

I have a set of DASCO punches that I used to build the 2 AR-15s I've built. There are plenty of guides out there to describe the tricky parts of the process and how to avoid doing damage to your lower.

 

[wjgollatz]

However if you want some real data on the difference between your average brass vs steel ammo read THIS

The proves and underscores my point. Thank you for the link. If one wants a higher reliable rifle, use brass ammunition. When evil doers break into your home at night, you will not have a discussion period with them to explain to them that your new barrel, extractors and bolt are being delivered by UPS next week, and that you would very much appreciate if they left and returned after the delivery so that you can reduce your chances of a malfunction.

 

[corwin]

The proves and underscores my point. Thank you for the link. If one wants a higher reliable rifle, use brass ammunition. When evil doers break into your home at night, you will not have a discussion period with them to explain to them that your new barrel, extractors and bolt are being delivered by UPS next week, and that you would very much appreciate if they left and returned after the delivery so that you can reduce your chances of a malfunction.

Mine isn't used for home defense, and even if it were and I was waiting on some random parts I have plenty of others arns to fill that role while I'm waiting, the hardest part would be deciding which one to use

Nothing wrong with cheap ammo for a range gun, get over it

 

[Triumph]

Just to emphasize and clarify what was said earlier - iff you resell the 80% lowers *UNTOUCHED* then you are ok, otherwise it's "Go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200!" By completing a lower you've manufactured a firearm, and while it may be legal to do that yourself for yourself without paperwork, it's absolutely illegal to do it for someone else.

http://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry/general-questions
"With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms."

I don't believe that's the right interpretation of that website. You are allowed to fabricate, from a blank piece of steel or aluminum, a non-fully automatic firearm for yourself. My friend's dad does it. You do not need to be a licensed firearms producer to do that. An AR-15 stripped lower was already made by a licensed firearm manufacturer, it has a serial number, and you need a NICS check in order to buy one from a firearms dealer.* Assembling a lower from parts is not being a manufacturer because the lower is the "firearm", it has already been manufactured. It IS illegal to assemble, from parts, a "non sporting weapon", which is another way of saying a fully automatic weapon.

Now what IS illegal, is to buy a firearm for someone else, that's a straw purchase. Buying a lower with the intent to sell it to your friend Bob, is illegal. Buying a lower with the intent to sell it to *someone* at some point in the future, I'm not sure of the legality of that.** In conclusion, I really believe that adding a lower parts kit to it has nothing to do with the legality of it. It doesn't make you a manufacturer.

*in my state, you do NOT need to buy a gun from a firearms dealer and thus you do not need to do a background check.
**people do it all the time, but pretty hard to prosecute for it when a perfectly legal defense is, "I bought it for myself and changed my mind."