Cheap NAS options?

[gramboh]

Hi,

I tried searching but never have any luck with AT forums search, and I'm sure this has been discussed many times.

My situation:

In my PC I currently have 1x 1TB 7200.10 + 2x 500GB 7200.10 for a total of 2TB. In an external eSATA enclosure I have another 1x 1TB 7200.10 and in a USB2 enclosure 1x 200GB Maxtor for total of 1.2TB back-up space.

My problem is I am down to about 200GB free storage in my PC and could probably run that down pretty quickly if I tried. As I've gone over 1.2TB I've basically decided on what types of data I am willing to risk losing and what I absolutely must back-up. I use Windows SyncToy to move stuff to the external storage (which is powered off except when I back-up).

I could just buy 2x 1.5TB drives and add another external, but it gets cumbersome and I think I only have one drive bay left in the lower cage of my P182.

Thus, I want to deploy a cheap NAS solution. My friend has a 4-bay gigabit ReadyNAS which he is happy with speed/reliability wise, but the damn things seem ridiculously expensive for what you get. I know a cheaper option is to build another PC and use FreeNAS or something, but it seems hard to find a cheap case with lots of drive bays that isn't huge/loud.

As far as drives, I could either buy two more 1TB 7200.10 and have 4x1TB RAID5, or try to sell them (will be hard because of the Seagate issues) and buy 4x1.5TB RAID5 for more space since the 2TB WD drives are still ovepriced. I would probably run the 2x500GB's in RAID0 as an OS drive for a potential performance boost. Another option would be to keep one of the 1TB drives for mission critical back-up incase the NAS had a total failure (I'm willing to risk the data in RAID5, only a small portion is mission critical stuff I would hate to lose).

Thanks for any thoughts on these ramblings.

Edit: I'd also have to buy a gigabit router which isn't a huge deal I guess.

 

[pjkenned]

The 7200.11's were the ones with major issues in earlier firmware revisions so you would have that working for you.

Cheap cases? You could buy a cheap Norco Case on newegg as 4U ones generally start in the $80 range. Going cheaper, with power supply, you can fairly easily find other options. What may end up being a decent value is looking for a previous gen or special deal HP WHS box with low installed drive capacity, then adding larger drives. This assumes, of course that you don't have access to a small parts bin.

I think what you really need to decide is:
1. Capacity you need both in back-up and on your main PC.
1a. How do you want to get that capacity?
1b. How do you want arrays to be configured?
2. Build a pre-configured ReadyNAS/QNAP/WHS box or build something yourself
2a. If build your own, do you want to use something open-source and super easy (OpenFiler/FreeNAS), open source but a bit trickier (Open Solaris/Ubuntu Server), or pay for WHS?

Really the choice above needs to be driven by:
1. Available resources (budget, spare parts, and etc)
2. What features you need.
3. What your future storage needs are.

You seem to be offering a budget constrained case where you don't like any of the budget options, yet don't have a clear plan yet. What may be more helpful is thinking through 1-3 plausible scenarios and then asking which works. Without making the hardware/software/storage capacity choices or even defining parameters, it doesn't help others provide feedback.

 

[gramboh]

Originally posted by: pjkenned
The 7200.11's were the ones with major issues in earlier firmware revisions so you would have that working for you.

Cheap cases? You could buy a cheap Norco Case on newegg as 4U ones generally start in the $80 range. Going cheaper, with power supply, you can fairly easily find other options. What may end up being a decent value is looking for a previous gen or special deal HP WHS box with low installed drive capacity, then adding larger drives. This assumes, of course that you don't have access to a small parts bin.

I think what you really need to decide is:
1. Capacity you need both in back-up and on your main PC.
1a. How do you want to get that capacity?
1b. How do you want arrays to be configured?
2. Build a pre-configured ReadyNAS/QNAP/WHS box or build something yourself
2a. If build your own, do you want to use something open-source and super easy (OpenFiler/FreeNAS), open source but a bit trickier (Open Solaris/Ubuntu Server), or pay for WHS?

Really the choice above needs to be driven by:
1. Available resources (budget, spare parts, and etc)
2. What features you need.
3. What your future storage needs are.

You seem to be offering a budget constrained case where you don't like any of the budget options, yet don't have a clear plan yet. What may be more helpful is thinking through 1-3 plausible scenarios and then asking which works. Without making the hardware/software/storage capacity choices or even defining parameters, it doesn't help others provide feedback.

Thanks for the advice, I didn't really think through my post and I now realize it is basically rambling about a bunch of different options without specs/requirements.

I think what I should have first asked (since I am not sure on budget yet) is for advice on cheap 4-bay NAS units. Can you recommend a model which has reasonable performance, gigabit ethernet and RAID5 ability? I would prefer to go pre-configured for ease of use, but if all the options are overpriced (in my view) like the ReadyNAS I will have to consider building my own box.

 

[mxnerd]

The reality is there is no cheap RAID NAS soultion.

if you want to use RAID5, Intel motherboard with Matrix Storage only has Windows driver, there is no Linux support, so you can't use FreeNAS or OpenFiler on Intel motherboard and expect it to support Intel's RAID5, you need a real controller like LSI/Adaptec or Dell 5i/6i (Dell 5i can be had around $120 on eBay, just bought one)

I tried to come up with a list of hardware and software using newegg wishlist, with no raid support, since Windows Home Server does not support RAID.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=9793112">https://secure.newegg.com/W......il.aspx?ID=9793112</a>

Besides, RAID5 initializaion and rebuilding IS slow.

http://apps.sourceforge.net/ph...iewtopic.php?f=79&t=38

 

[imported_trajan]

I was just about to post my own question on this topic--I'm glad I was patient and tried searching back first!

I'm looking to get a home server that I can use to store files on my internal network, but also something I can FTP or access from the internet. A primary (but not only) function will be back up, so I'd like RAID 1/5.

I think the big difference from the OP is that I'm a little bit less constrained by budget? I saw a NAS at Microcenter the other day that was $220 or so, plug and play with two 500gb drives that could be switched between Raid 0/1. I almost impulse bought, but I'd prefer to buy my own enclosure and then add my own drives. 500 GB (in RAID 1) would actually do me fine in the short term but not long term. So I'm thinking either a compartively inexpensive 4 bay NAS that I can drop 2 small drives in (maybe 640s) and then expand later, or if the price isn't too much higher, maybe a 2 drive bay that I would drop a pair of 1 TB drives in.

The key thing for me is just having a single box that gives me both internal storage and external access and I feel like buying a ready made solution is ultimately going to be cheaper than building my own from scratch (but I'm up for that if wiser minds than mine think thats doable).

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: grambohMy friend has a 4-bay gigabit ReadyNAS which he is happy with speed/reliability wise, but the damn things seem ridiculously expensive for what you get. I know a cheaper option is to build another PC and use FreeNAS or something, but it seems hard to find a cheap case with lots of drive bays that isn't huge/loud.

$28 CDN plus shipping

My case is a lot like that one and I have 7 hard drives in it. I would have 8, but my video card is huge and extends into the hard drive area.....

Not many motherboards have that many SATA connectors, so you'll probably want some controller cards. There are many to choose from.

 

[faxon]

if you have a lot of spare parts lying around, and a mobo that supports RAID5 with 4 SATA drives + 1 IDE or sata extra for an OS drive, you could probably build a box cheaper than getting a NAS box would be. as for making it quiet, the loudest part of the system will probably end up being the hard drives, since the antec 300 can be had for about $45 US and it comes with antec tricool PWM fans, which if you dont like can be replaced with yate loons to max the case out for like $25-30 total for all the fans it can hold. the alternatives start at about $400 for a 4 bay enclosure not including drives, and then the cost of whatever drives you put in it. something to consider is that most desktop drives arent designed to be used in 4 drive RAID configurations and may die much more quickly, so you will want to look at enterprise class drives, which cost more but are designed to handle running along side lots of other drives in RAID without failure due to vibrations, load on drives, 24/7 high IO sessions, ect. bottom line for 4 1TB Barracuda ES.2 is $640, and WD RE4-GP 2TB drives run $330 right now a pop, not to mention being hard to get a hold of because the supply isnt quite meeting the demand for them yet. bottom line is, if you're looking at a reliable raid 5 system with the ideal minimum configuration (4 drives) you're not going to get anything for under $1000 unless you already have the parts lying around to put another system together, maybe minus a part or 2. otherwise a cheap dual core + IGP mobo can be had for $100 in a combo deal here, $60 for a 400w Corsair PSU, $45 for a case (antec 300 with 9 drive bays comes to mind), $100 for the OS minimum unless you use something free/open source, and $60-100 on silencing hardware ($30 on cooler, $25-30 on fans, rest on insulation related items) depending on how quiet is "quiet" to you, and $640 minimum on hard drives, assuming you already have another drive you can use as the OS drive so you dont have to have your OS on your RAID volume clogging things up and causing issues

 

[pjkenned]

100% agree with the $1000+ picture. That number will quickly climb if you don't do research and end up re-doing things. One great example is moving to hotswap bays which are not that big of an issue if you know what you want in advance, and purchase accordingly. Another great example is seeing that your hardware has poor linux/BSD support and therefore you have to swap hardware or run WHS adding $100 in costs. Another prime example is deciding too late that you want to do teaming with two gigabit NICs and have to add something to the server and get a new switch.

Research first, build once, save lots of money.

 

[Slowlearner]

I have been using a Buffalo Terastation 1 TB (4x250 HD) in Raid 5 for more than a year without real problems. In case of a sudden power failure, the array takes a very, repeat very, long time to rebuild - that scared me, and I added a second backup server. However, if properly configured with its own UPS, with an orderly shutdown in case of power failure, there seem to be no problems for the past year. There does not seem to be an auto logon feature when power is restored. The drives are easy to replace.

A similar model Buffalo Technology LinkStation Quad 1.0TB Network Attached Storage is available for about $400 plus s&h. I do not have experience this unit

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: mxnerd if you want to use RAID5, Intel motherboard with Matrix Storage only has Windows driver, there is no Linux support, so you can't use FreeNAS or OpenFiler on Intel motherboard and expect it to support Intel's RAID5, you need a real controller like LSI/Adaptec or Dell 5i/6i (Dell 5i can be had around $120 on eBay, just bought one)
[/L]

FreeNAS works flawlessly with my ASUS P5K Deluxe and the ICH9R. I'm using it in RAID-5 with 5 x 500GB HDs and 1 optical drive. The OS is running on a Corsair Turbo Flash USB drive.

 

[Evadman]

I have a readynas NV+ (4 bay), Norco DS-520 (5 bay), Linksys nas200 (2 bay) and a Freenas based box. I have used almost every NAS solution under the sun. Here are some options:

If you want quiet, get the NV+. It has a temperature controlled fan so that it only makes as much noise as ncessaray. It also supports the newer 1.5TB Seagate drives. I can't speak to the new 2 TB versions. to the OP's point, it is not cheap ($600 with no drives)

If you want some more space and your choice of operating systems, get something like the DS-520. It is basically a small computer with a x86 processor you can install whatever OS you want. It is also upgradable with port multipliers, but each 5 bays will cost another $400, and the unit is $500 + OS + memory for a total in the the $700 range before disks. It is decently quiet, but the NV+ is quieter.

If you want cheap and some major expandability options but sound isn't an issue, go with FreeNAS and build your own machine. You can use just about any old junk you have lying around to build a box, though you may have to pick up a SATA to PCI controller for $30 or so if your mainbaord doesn't have one, or enough ports. For cost, figure any old CPU/mainboard/memory (free if you got 'em or $100 to buy a new set) + 2 SATA controllers ($60) + 300 for a good hot swap case (I have this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16811219021) for a total max outlay of $460 + drives. the good thing about freenas is you can move or change the hardware around, and the OS doesn't care like a windows box does. You can cut a ton off the price too if you use stuff you have hanging around.

 

[boomhower]

I built a WHS for dirt cheap. $30 sparta CPU, $70 780G mobo, $50 PSU, $20 2GB's ram, already had case but lets say $50(newegg had the antec 300 on sale for $55 and would be perfect.), and 2x1.5TB for $260. Not counting hard drives you can have a very nice system for $250. These things do not take hardly any horsepower to run. Prebuilt is going to bet you the best value for your money. I like WHS for the simple fact you can mix and match any drive size without needing to rebuild an array. It certailnly has its negatives but that aspect more than makes up for to me.

 

[Knavish]

Originally posted by: mxnerd
The reality is there is no cheap RAID NAS soultion.

if you want to use RAID5, Intel motherboard with Matrix Storage only has Windows driver, there is no Linux support, so you can't use FreeNAS or OpenFiler on Intel motherboard and expect it to support Intel's RAID5, you need a real controller like LSI/Adaptec or Dell 5i/6i (Dell 5i can be had around $120 on eBay, just bought one)
...

In linux / open solaris you would never want to use Intel's motherboard-based RAID5. You run software RAID in either linux / open solaris:
Info on Software RAID

Of course, software RAID uses the CPU for parity calculations, but the Intel motherboard RAID does as well. OpenSolaris + RAID-Z FTW

 

[taltamir]

www.freenas.com easiest and second best way to run a nas.

www.genunix.org and download opensolaris if you want greater file safety of ZFS but more difficult to manage and install solaris OS.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: mxnerd
I tried to come up with a list of hardware and software using newegg wishlist, with no raid support, since Windows Home Server does not support RAID.

As I understand it, WHS does support RAID (with appropriate drivers loaded), but rather RAID is superfluous with WHS, since it already does folder-level duplication, making RAID unneccesary.

Although, WHS's storage console only supports creating up to 2TB BASIC partitions, so RAID volumes larger than that would need to be split up into smaller volumes to be used by WHS. Perhaps that is what you were referring to.

 

[boomhower]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: mxnerd
I tried to come up with a list of hardware and software using newegg wishlist, with no raid support, since Windows Home Server does not support RAID.

As I understand it, WHS does support RAID (with appropriate drivers loaded), but rather RAID is superfluous with WHS, since it already does folder-level duplication, making RAID unneccesary.

Although, WHS's storage console only supports creating up to 2TB BASIC partitions, so RAID volumes larger than that would need to be split up into smaller volumes to be used by WHS. Perhaps that is what you were referring to.

That's not quite right. WHS takes all your drives and combines them into one big storage pool. You select what folders you want duplicated and the OS ensures those files are on at least two hard drives. There is no RAID at all, just folder/file duplication. Personally I like it. It's a happy medium. It doesn't waste as much space as a RAID 1 set-up but is not as efficient as a RAID 5. My personal favorite feature is you can add any size drive to the pool. With a traditional RAID set-up you have to have same size drives and back-up/rebuild the array to change it. With WHS you just stick another drive in it and go about your business.