Cheap New dSLR or Older used?

[Murpheeee]

Was looking at the Canon Rebel Xti and the Nikon D40, both seem good entry level cameras. That will do what I want them to?take good pictures without messing around with settings, but give you the option of doing a lot more if and when you want to.
We are getting really tired of dealing with the crappy pictures of the pocket point & shoot we have and I want to try the SLR route.

On both the cameras I am considering though, I have heard that the kit lenses that come with them are useless and you should sell them and buy a decent one.
Are they really that bad?

I also had a chance to buy locally used 20D with a good lens (EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM) for $750

If I buy a D40 or Xti and have to spend another $300 on a ?good? lens, would I be as well buying the 20D used and getting a better camera into the deal.

I like that the Xti has the dust removal system - shodul that be a major consideration?

Budget is a concern and I would like to stay under $700

 

[AndrewR]

One thing you need to figure out before you start dropping good money on lenses is what kind of photography you would like to do. You'd do well to start with a basic body (XTi, D40) with the kit lens and perhaps a consumer telephoto (75-300) and see where your pictures wind up. If it's telephoto, look at replacing the consumer lens with something good. If it's wideangle, look at getting a quality wideangle, and from what I've read, the 17-85 isn't that high quality of a lens despite its price (not a Canon expert though).

You may wind up shooting everything around 50mm, and you could get a nice prime lens. Hopefully it's not low light photography because that's where the real money starts flowing.

Anyway, people complain about kit lenses when they start getting serious about photography. For most people, the kits are fine for snapshots of friends, families, pets, etc., and you can even get some very nice shots from them suitable for framing. The good thing though is that you don't often lose too much money when you buy a lens because they tend to hold their value. Camera bodies, however, are a different story.

Also consider spending money on a tripod and an external flash, of course subject to what you want to do with your camera. If you think you'll take picture inside, consider the flash. If you want to take landscapes, consider a good tripod.

 

[jpeyton]

I don't think the kit lenses are that bad. You can see for yourself; examples here, here and here.

Have you had a chance to hold and test some bodies out in person? The Rebel XTi and the D40 are the #1 and #2 selling DSLRs (respectively) on the market; you can't go wrong with either one. They are in different price brackets; the D40 is a $400-$450 kit; the Rebel XTi is about $100-$150 more. The Nikon D50 and D70s are two good used options; both are about $300-$350 for the body.

My suggestion is to get your feet wet first. Buy a DSLR kit, get more familiar with SLR photography, learn the limits of your equipment and purchase a better lens based on those limits you discovered. You may discover the kit lens is perfectly fine for your needs at that focal range, and that you would rather spend your money on a telephoto lens instead, or a macro lens, or a super-wide angle.

 

[Krioni]

Well, I can't speak to everything you're asking... but, in my experience the kit lenses are absolutely adequate for normal shooting.

As with everything, it depends on you and what you're interested in shooting. I think you'd find the kit lenses on any of the recent dSLRs are more than sufficient for everyday use.

Be sure to leave some room in your budget for some other stuff like a good bag, a tripod, etc.

I think you'll find that any of these cameras with most lenses will produce really good results in comparison to most point-n-shoot cameras.

Good luck!

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: Krioni
Well, I can't speak to everything you're asking... but, in my experience the kit lenses are absolutely adequate for normal shooting.

As with everything, it depends on you and what you're interested in shooting. I think you'd find the kit lenses on any of the recent dSLRs are more than sufficient for everyday use.

Be sure to leave some room in your budget for some other stuff like a good bag, a tripod, etc.

I think you'll find that any of these cameras with most lenses will produce really good results in comparison to most point-n-shoot cameras.

Good luck!

My D40 kit lens has taken some nice pictures. No complaints given the price.

 

[Murpheeee]

ok, given all these comments I am assuming the people who complain about teh kit lenses are the serious photographers, which I am not...

Thanks, his has helped reassure me

 

[virtuamike]

Originally posted by: Murpheeee
ok, given all these comments I am assuming the people who complain about teh kit lenses are the serious photographers, which I am not...

Thanks, his has helped reassure me

Nah, they just like to complain, has nothing to do with being serious

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Murpheeee
ok, given all these comments I am assuming the people who complain about teh kit lenses are the serious photographers, which I am not...

Thanks, his has helped reassure me

Serious photographers aren't going to complain too much -- they are just going to get some very nice lenses and let their photos speak for themselves. The biggest complainers are the "pixel peepers" who blow everything up to 100% and critique every last detail or flaw.

Bottomline: Can you get good photos from kit lenses? Yes. Are there better lenses available for more money? Yes.

 

[soydios]

the kit lenses are plenty capable for most photography. they have the advantage of being small and light, but at the expense of light-gathering ability.

if you're looking at a D40, I would suggest a D50 instead.