Cheap old generation card vs same priced current generation

[Henrah]

8800GTS 512mb = £57.50 (2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products...-128-Cores-2x-DL-DVI-I

I'm not a huge gamer. My x1950pro handles all the Valve games I'm playing right now absolutely fine. However, upon downloading the demo to ARMA2, I discovered my card isn't really cut out for today's graphically intense games. (Crysis also tells me this.) I love a bargain, and I remember the 8800GTS 512 being an excellent card. What I'd like to know is: How does that card stack up to AMD and nVidia's current generation at that price point?

----------------------------------

For reference, here are the results of a fairly in-depth shop online:

ATI:
No warranty information for these three (given manufacturer's name instead):
4670 1gb = £53.50 (DDR3@1746mhz PowerColor)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150861

4670 512mb = £54 (GDDR3@2000mhz Sapphire)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...1&catid=56&subcat=1274

4730 512mb = £60 (GDDR5@3600mhz Sapphire)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/166614

NVIDIA:
9600GT 512mb (64cores) = £58.50 (GDDR3@1800mhz 2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products...es-2x-DL-DVI-I-S-Video

9600GSO 1.5gb (96cores) = £66.60 (GDDR2@800mhz 2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/15GB-XFX-9600GSO-580MHZ

Unfortunately, as soon as I look at the 4850's (£75 being the cheapest for 1gb) I can't help but want to keep jumping up in performance, seeing each jump as significantly better value, until I get to the 4890 and realise I don't want to spend £150. Plus I'm sure my system will bottleneck it, possibly even the 4870. (Scouting around has made me decide to miss out nVidia's 250, 260 & 275 due to the similarly-performing ATI cards being cheaper in every case.) Might the 4850 be the card to get after all?

You guys are such able givers of sage advice. What are your opinions?

EDIT: Fixed the links and layout

 

[crazylegs]

I'd strongly advise NOT to get a last gen card.

Looks like you have done your research as far as prices in the UK go - using som eof the better websites. Might also want to check out Overclockers.co.uk, especially their deal of the week items, if its something u want can get £5-10 off.

Finally as far as your choice of card goes, i'd go for an 4850 minimum, to get a nice significant upgrade - otherwise save your money.

 

[Schmide]

Considering all your cards suck in price. You actually picked a darn good choice.

This article should explain everything.

gtx 250

I poked around that site and that is by far the best bang for the buck card you could get there. The only other reasonably priced cards were the gtx 250 and the ATI 4770 (which is not in stock and doubt it will be any time soon) That 8800gts 512 is also clocked near the gts 250 so I would bet you see only a few percentage points difference.

Here is a couple good tables as well to get your head around all the branding...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_8_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9800

 

[s44]

Yes, get the GTS. It should hold you until you do a full system refresh with DX11. Incidentally, I'm not sure ATI's big price advantage holds true in the UK.

 

[Schmide]

This is frilling tempting though


£88.99 XFX ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card 10 in stock.

Faster Graphics For Lower Prices: ATI Radeon HD 4770

You still cant beat that £57 card.

 

[Qbah]

That 8800GTS 512 is almost like a HD4850. It's definately faster than a HD4830 and faster than all the nVidia cards you list. I guess you can compare it to a HD4770. Faster than a HD4830 and not as fast as a HD4850. And it will totally own the HD4670 and lower.

Based on the prices you listed, it's a real steal

 

[vj8usa]

Originally posted by: Schmide
This is frilling tempting though


£88.99 XFX ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card 10 in stock.

Faster Graphics For Lower Prices: ATI Radeon HD 4770

You still cant beat that £57 card.

He mentioned he can get a 1GB 4850 for £75 though, so a £88.99 4770 isn't a great price.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: vj8usa
He mentioned he can get a 1GB 4850 for £75 though, so a £88.99 4770 isn't a great price.

but it's such a rare find. I know. My bad.

 

[crazylegs]

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...01&catid=56&subcat=938

4850, 512mb @ £68.99


EDIT - my bad, you said £75 for a 1gb card.

 

[AzN]

arma performs like crap even on modern video cards. Have a look here... http://firingsquad.com/hardwar..._performance/page4.asp

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: Henrah
8800GTS 512mb = £57.50 (2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products...-128-Cores-2x-DL-DVI-I

I'm not a huge gamer. My x1950pro handles all the Valve games I'm playing right now absolutely fine. However, upon downloading the demo to ARMA2, I discovered my card isn't really cut out for today's graphically intense games. (Crysis also tells me this.) I love a bargain, and I remember the 8800GTS 512 being an excellent card. What I'd like to know is: How does that card stack up to AMD and nVidia's current generation at that price point?

----------------------------------

For reference, here are the results of a fairly in-depth shop online:

ATI:
No warranty information for these three (given manufacturer's name instead):
4670 1gb = £53.50 (DDR3@1746mhz PowerColor)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150861

4670 512mb = £54 (GDDR3@2000mhz Sapphire)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...1&catid=56&subcat=1274

4730 512mb = £60 (GDDR5@3600mhz Sapphire)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/166614

NVIDIA:
9600GT 512mb (64cores) = £58.50 (GDDR3@1800mhz 2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products...es-2x-DL-DVI-I-S-Video

9600GSO 1.5gb (96cores) = £66.60 (GDDR2@800mhz 2yr warranty)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/15GB-XFX-9600GSO-580MHZ

Unfortunately, as soon as I look at the 4850's (£75 being the cheapest for 1gb) I can't help but want to keep jumping up in performance, seeing each jump as significantly better value, until I get to the 4890 and realise I don't want to spend £150. Plus I'm sure my system will bottleneck it, possibly even the 4870. (Scouting around has made me decide to miss out nVidia's 250, 260 & 275 due to the similarly-performing ATI cards being cheaper in every case.) Might the 4850 be the card to get after all?

You guys are such able givers of sage advice. What are your opinions?

EDIT: Fixed the links and layout

Out of those deals that 8800gts seem like the best deal considering the price.

 

[Juncar]

Depends on how much you really want to spend. The 4850 is faster than 8800 GTS, and the 1 GB version for that price is good deal. But if you don't want to spend that much then the 8800 GTS is the next best thing.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Originally posted by: Azn
arma performs like crap even on modern video cards. Have a look here... http://firingsquad.com/hardwar..._performance/page4.asp

Right, at 1600x1200 with very high settings & AA minimum.

A 8800GTS 512 plays it just fine (See my sig, runs ArmA 2 fine) and still looks fantastic, but just be realistic when playing a new release with the scope of ArmA 2 when it comes to settings.

 

[yh125d]

8800GTS 512 ~ 4850/GTS 250, better than 8800GT/9800GT/4830. Definitely a good card for the $

 

[brblx]

it's just an upclocked 8800GT, it's better than the older G80 cards, same as the 9800 cards and usually a little below the 4850 in benchmarks.

edit: decent set of benchmarks here-
http://www.techspot.com/review/103-asus-radeon-4850/

8800GTS sticks around the 8800GT and G80 8800GTX, 9800gtx and 9800gtx+ consistently trading blows with the 4850 slightly above.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: brblx
it's just an upclocked 8800GT, it's better than the older G80 cards, same as the 9800 cards and usually a little below the 4850 in benchmarks.

And more shaders I think. 128 instead of 112 or something

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: brblx
it's just an upclocked 8800GT, it's better than the older G80 cards, same as the 9800 cards and usually a little below the 4850 in benchmarks.

edit: decent set of benchmarks here-
http://www.techspot.com/review/103-asus-radeon-4850/

8800GTS sticks around the 8800GT and G80 8800GTX, 9800gtx and 9800gtx+ consistently trading blows with the 4850 slightly above.

Uhh the 8800gts is a g92 (65nm) basically a 9800gtx(65nm)/9800gtx+(55nm)/gtx 250(55nm), not an 8800gt.

 

[brblx]

8800gt 512 is also a g92. the only difference between it and the gts is clock bumps akin to a factory oc 8800gt and as yh125d pointed out, 16 more stream processors. it doesn't bench as high at the 9800gtx+ or gts250 and often competes with the better of the g80 cards which have similar core speeds but more memory bandwidth.

g80 cards are the ones with odd memory sizes. the original 320mb and 640mb cards are outclassed by the newer 8800gt, but the 768mb versions are a bit more viable.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: brblx
8800gt 512 is also a g92. the only difference between it and the gts is clock bumps akin to a factory oc 8800gt and as yh125d pointed out, 16 more stream processors. it doesn't bench as high at the 9800gtx+ or gts250 and often competes with the better of the g80 cards which have similar core speeds but more memory bandwidth.

g80 cards are the ones with odd memory sizes. the original 320mb and 640mb cards are outclassed by the newer 8800gt, but the 768mb versions are a bit more viable.

Uhh that's not what you said, regardless, it also has 8 more texture units than an 8800gt/9800gt (64 vs. 56) and is an OC clocked version 678mhz (vs 745mhz for the gtx 250) It's the same chip minus the die shrink.

The only statement that would do it justice is: It's a power hungry 9800gtx/gtx 250, not a 9800/8800gt.

EDIT: The OP link is dead. We can only hope the OP got the card. The clocks are 678mhz not 720mhz as I stated above. Here's the deactivated newegg link if anyone wants to look at it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127325

 

[Denithor]

These guys have pretty much hit it -

8800GTS 512MB is the exact same core used in the older 9800GTX just with lower clocks. Same everything else - shader count, texture units, etc etc.

So it should run about equal to a 4850 512MB and (depending on resolution) a bit behind a 1GB 4850. And it will be considerably stronger than any of the other cards in your original lineup.

At that price there's no comparison - grab that card and treat yourself to a serious bargain!

 

[DarkZeratul]

Hmmm, you are in the middle of July... Rumors has it, if you CAN WAIT 5-6 weeks -in the worst scenario- then you would pay, say £69-£70 for an ATI HD4770. IMHO a better choice than a 8800GTS-GT 250 (same GPU, different node tech). If you will get another 8800GTS/GT 250 to make SLI, then you will get your PSU under stress... On the other hand, if you take an HD4770 in 5 weeks and wait 5 months to get another HD4770 (for these days it could cost £59, or LESS), then this CFire build will give you more fps with LESS £, with AA enabled, at 1680 x 1050 (ur LCD) and given the rest of your actual hardware...

IMHO this is your best bet if you want two graphics card to make a killer gaming rig, given you don't mind overclocking your CPU; I think this is perfectly possible with your MoBo/memory. Either with or without CFire, you will never stress your PSU and you will always find a gamer who joyfully want to buy 1 or 2 second-hand HD4770s. I'm wondering if it will be the same case with the nVidia combo...

 

[nemesismk2]

The 8800 GTS is a very nice video card. I owned a XFX 8800 GT and spent along time playing games on it.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: DarkZeratul
Hmmm, you are in the middle of July... Rumors has it, if you CAN WAIT 5-6 weeks -in the worst scenario- then you would pay, say £69-£70 for an ATI HD4770. IMHO a better choice than a 8800GTS-GT 250 (same GPU, different node tech). If you will get another 8800GTS/GT 250 to make SLI, then you will get your PSU under stress...

This logic makes little sense. He hasn't upgraded in *years*, he's not a hardcore gamer... And therefore by the time he upgrades again it will be much cheaper and better just to buy a new single card than to go CF.

Waiting 5-6 weeks without a usable card to spend more on a card that's not any faster is pointless.

 

[Henrah]

Originally posted by: crazylegs
I'd strongly advise NOT to get a last gen card.
Looks like you have done your research as far as prices in the UK go - using som eof the better websites. Might also want to check out Overclockers.co.uk, especially their deal of the week items, if its something u want can get £5-10 off.
Finally as far as your choice of card goes, i'd go for an 4850 minimum, to get a nice significant upgrade - otherwise save your money.

www.overclockers.co.uk is a really great site. Some of their deals are ridiculous haha! Do you know of any other good sites? Scan, eBuyer, Overclockers and Novatech are the only 4 I check.

Originally posted by: Schmide
Considering all your cards suck in price. You actually picked a darn good choice.
This article should explain everything. gtx 250
---
This is frilling tempting though ... but it's such a rare find. I know. My bad. [on 4770 for £88.99]
---
EDIT: The OP link is dead. We can only hope the OP got the card. The clocks are 678mhz not 720mhz as I stated above. Here's the deactivated newegg link if anyone wants to look at it.

I think I would only get a 4770 if I could find it for £70 or less, after finding a £75 4850 1gb.

Sadly, I didn't get the card. I guess listing it here resulted in it selling out. At such a price, I'm sure I would've been happy with it carrying me over possibly into the HD6xxx and GT400 - but such is life. A 1gb 4850 is now the card to get, as long as it can be had for under £85.
Thankyou for all your information ^_^

Originally posted by: brblx
it's just an upclocked 8800GT, it's better than the older G80 cards, same as the 9800 cards and usually a little below the 4850 in benchmarks.

edit: decent set of benchmarks here-
http://www.techspot.com/review/103-asus-radeon-4850/

8800GTS sticks around the 8800GT and G80 8800GTX, 9800gtx and 9800gtx+ consistently trading blows with the 4850 slightly above.

Thanks for the link ^_^

Originally posted by: DarkZeratul
Hmmm, you are in the middle of July... Rumors has it, if you CAN WAIT 5-6 weeks -in the worst scenario- then you would pay, say £69-£70 for an ATI HD4770. IMHO a better choice than a 8800GTS-GT 250 (same GPU, different node tech). If you will get another 8800GTS/GT 250 to make SLI, then you will get your PSU under stress... On the other hand, if you take an HD4770 in 5 weeks and wait 5 months to get another HD4770 (for these days it could cost £59, or LESS), then this CFire build will give you more fps with LESS £, with AA enabled, at 1680 x 1050 (ur LCD) and given the rest of your actual hardware...

IMHO this is your best bet if you want two graphics card to make a killer gaming rig, given you don't mind overclocking your CPU; I think this is perfectly possible with your MoBo/memory. Either with or without CFire, you will never stress your PSU and you will always find a gamer who joyfully want to buy 1 or 2 second-hand HD4770s. I'm wondering if it will be the same case with the nVidia combo...

Originally posted by: s44
This logic makes little sense. He hasn't upgraded in *years*, he's not a hardcore gamer... And therefore by the time he upgrades again it will be much cheaper and better just to buy a new single card than to go CF.

Waiting 5-6 weeks without a usable card to spend more on a card that's not any faster is pointless.
---
Yes, get the GTS. It should hold you until you do a full system refresh with DX11. Incidentally, I'm not sure ATI's big price advantage holds true in the UK.

I'm with s44 here. Though it would be a great gaming rig, it requires me waiting, and possibly overclocking my CPU. I'm not too into overclocking - read: cowardice. Would overclocking my CPU be recommended if I were to get a 4850 1gb?

s44 - ATI has a great price advantage here. I'm not bothering with nVidia's GT200 lineup because ATI's similarly-and-sometimes-better performing counterparts are cheaper. Pricewise, 4850<250 & 4870<260. The 4890 is only occasionally cheaper than 275, and not by much. They are often similarly priced, but I'm not heading up to that price point. Ideally, I'm looking around £80 because that's what I paid for my x1950pro 512mb. I would only consider more if it were ridiculous not to do so, e.g. £95 4870 1gb compared to £75 4850 1gb. (Also, I'm adamant on getting 1gb. 512mb seems like a waste of time.)

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: HenrahWould overclocking my CPU be recommended if I were to get a 4850 1gb?

Highly recommended for ArmA2, regardless of what card you choose. There is nothing to be afraid of either, you've got to really go out of your way to push the clocks before breaking something becomes a concern.