cheaper LED light bulbs

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0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: mikeford
Hot deal = saving money.

http://mdofpc.com/onlinestore/13-watt-110v-led-light-bulb-clear-p-887022.html This one is about $6, first that froogle turned up. I think there is a real place for small efficient spots, dandy really for many many uses.

Having lived through the last 20 years of compact flourescent lights, they are only now BARELY useable. The last batch I got for almost nothing at Costco due to edison deal, are the 17 watt acts like a 60 types, and other than about 1 second of delay on turn on, I like them just fine.

I am also a big fan of the Electro Luminescent panels.

My wife is a 150 watt three way junky, which so far I have found no good substitute for incandescent.



i've seen 3 way compact flourescent lights from slyvania(sp) at lowes.

and el strip lights don't last for that many hours.

as for cf's being barely usable now, well it depends on the brand. ive found iikea ones are just warm enough. some ge's are fine too. but ikea is good since they've been pushing cf's for years now, selling them cheap and almost all their lighting solutions(minus the halogen ones) are built around using cf's. unlike places like lowes were they seem to favor incadescents and u have to hope a cf works in the application. kinda behind the times this lowes/home depot. sad. ikea pretty much subsidized cf's when i first saw them in their stores a few years ago. i'm guessing they did because the things cost much more everywhere else.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
and yea leds... u gotta consider lumens per watt and dollars per lumen they just can't touch compact flourescents at all. especially when considernig color, atleast the ones i've seen are pretty hideous blueish light. not something you'd want in most homes.

as for oled, thats viable if they can fix the problems with lifespan

and don't use lights of america as your benchmark for cf lighting, its cheap junk, what did you expect? use ge/sylvania or ikea lights. i like the ikea ones, cheap good don't flicker and decent color.
 

KF

Golden Member
Dec 3, 1999
1,371
0
0
About the color of light:

I have bought bargain brands that were anywhere from bluish to pinkish. Even in the same brand, different wattages have had different phosphors. People generally prefer the pinkish as being more natural. I suppose natural means more like incandescent bulbs. The last bunch, a 6 pack for $10 at Home Depot that I couldn't pass up, are about the color of warm white fluorescents, which in the old-fashioned 2 foot tube variety costs an arm and a leg. The light does look good. I haven't had them in use long enough to know if they will last, but they haven't given me any trouble yet, and at $1.66 a bulb, they don't even have to outlast an incandescent bulb to save money.

I've bought quite a variety of CFs (compact fluorescents) over the years. As they have gotten smaller, I have found more places I can put them. There are actually quite a variety of differing systems. And even within a brand, they have changed obviously over the years.

Light of America:

The first cheap ($9.95 and under) energy saving fluorescents that I recall seeing were by Lights of America. That was long ago in the era of the "energy crisis", as they called it, until it went back to a glut. I still have 2 of those working from that era. These are not the bulbs that usually have the name compact fluorescent. They use a normal circleline fluorescent tube, which has been common back to at least the 1950's. Circlelines are about as long and thick as the big, old tubes of the same wattage, just curved into a circle. As far as I can tell this LOA fixture is not electronic. It has a starter in the plug that attaches to the circleline. And since it buzzes when it ages, it must have a ballast (an inductor). The laminations of the iron core get loose and buzz at the line frequency (and harmonics), just like transformers. Electronic-style fixtures have a converter that drives the bulbs at an ultrasonic frequency far above hearing. They can duplicate the function of a starter electronicly too, although some of them have a starter that you can hear click on.

The LOA fixture treats the tubes so badly that they get flakey at a fraction of the time they would in the old time fixtures. The fixture survives though, and you can replace the circleline tubes, as I have. The actual problem is that the connector plug to the tube corrodes terribly in a year or two, after which the bulb doesn't start up completely. Then the starting and quenching goes on irregularly for hours, and this prematurely wrecks the tube, besides being intolerably annoying. If when you first notice some strangeness, you take the plug off and on a couple of times (which cleans the contacts) the tube lasts a lot longer. The other problem, buzzing badly with age, is more trouble to fix than its worth. But if you're an electronics experimenter screwball like I am, it turns out that the rattling of the ballast against the case is what make the buzz so loud. I took it apart and stretch-wrapped vinyl tape around the works super tightly, and put some soft materal around it. It became virtually silent. I can't hear it at all from a foot away.

But LOA has another type of fixture/bulb, which costs more, that does use electronics, except they do have a starter, and the starter seems to be the culprit that shortens the life of these. This one doesn't buzz. The contacts also get bad, but not as fast. The 30 watt (150 W equivalent), and the extra small 20 watt circleline fixture seem electronic, and the tubes are higher output than normal circlelines. When I have to do something like change a jumper on a motherboard the LOA 30 watter is the kind of light I want. But it is uncomfortable and overwhelming for ordinary use, or even reading. (3 75 W $2 CFs in a triple socket light fixture outclass it ).

All this is by way of explaining that "true" compact fluorescents are different. They are electronic, which used to be expensive, but now is cheap. The tube is tiny, often has convoluted shapes to increase the light giving surface, and has phosphors that can be driven super hard to get the brightness sufficient for the small size. The first one of these I bought (partly because it was "facinating") was a 60 W equivalent Sylvania that I would occasionally see on sale for $24.95 with a $5 rebate, $19.95 AR. That's more like $35 today with inflation. With those kind of prices the bulb has to be on a lot and last a lot of hours to get a payback. The light was a nicer white than the yellowish incandescent bulbs. It never made a sound. It never flickered. It seemed to last forever. But one day, it just would not go on, and that was how it went. Quality sometimes pays for itself.
 

HomeAppraiser

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2005
2,562
1
0
Here I thought this was about the individual LEDs you can get at places like Radio Shack. My son bought a gross and wants to wire up some gadgets with button batteries. Anyone know a good online guide for kids? The ones we've googled are confusing. Thanks in advance.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
Its a weird combination of very basic info and fairly advanced.

LEDs need something to control the current, keep it below the rating for the device. In a fancy flashlight this is an active circuit, for gadgets just use a current limiting resistor in series.

This is off the top of my head, so take it with a grain of salt.
LED have a voltage drop, Vd, and a max current Im, so the resistor size is (batteryvolt - Vd)/Im =Rs the series current limiting resistor size. This neglects battery and LED internal resistance, but its ballpark. Also you don't learn if you don't blow some up.
 

Kwint Sommer

Senior member
Jul 28, 2006
612
0
0
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer
LEDs are cool except they are about as efficient as normal light bulbs (at least at comparable sizes) but while your average light bulb wastes some energy producing UV light and some producing heat an LED only wastes energy on heat so they end up being a lot hotter. Just something to keep in mind.
You're wrong. LED's are a lot more efficient than incandescent light bulbs. You are correct about the heat production though.

Small LEDs wildly outperform incandescent bulbs but the efficiency of current large LEDs are nearly as bad as incandescents. That's part of the reason that most large LED lighting applications use grids of smaller LEDs. Cost and heat distribution are also big factors and yes for a desk lamp an LED is more efficient.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

i've seen 3 way compact flourescent lights from slyvania(sp) at lowes.

and el strip lights don't last for that many hours.

as for cf's being barely usable now, well it depends on the brand. ive found iikea ones are just warm enough. some ge's are fine too. but ikea is good
Lowes and Home depot are pretty good places for CFL, and I look around when I go there and ask about substitutes for a 150 watt 3way, but NOTHING they have now puts out that much light and fits a normal fixture.

I have never had a EL nightlight fail and some are now at least 10 years old 24/7 how many hours is many or are you talking about something else?

CFL is just now getting good, with two things that should really help. High frequency active controllers, and the new more natural light spectrum bulbs. The high frequency stuff has no flicker, no noise, and should have a very long life. Having worked a few jobs with narrow spectrum lighting, mercury vapor etc., it totally sucks to me when I don't have broad spectrum natural light.

I won't pick on Ikea, since I basically like the place, but they do sell some low quality lighting products, and many times its the sort of thing that doesn't show up for a few months. Most of the time I think the stuff is OK, and its cheap enough that if a few models turn out bad its not a big loss unless of course the thing catches on fire or something.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
The "sunlight" flourescent I am talking about is the one where the tubes look like 4 fat long fingers, and I think they are about 37 watts with about 100 watts of light. Verilux natural spectrum is what they are called, http://www.egeneralmedical.com/repligforhap.html Fixtures start at about $50 at costco, and I haven't seen adapters yet for normal lamps.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
All this is by way of explaining that "true" compact fluorescents are different. They are electronic, which used to be expensive, but now is cheap. The tube is tiny, often has convoluted shapes to increase the light giving surface, and has phosphors that can be driven super hard to get the brightness sufficient for the small size. The first one of these I bought (partly because it was "facinating") was a 60 W equivalent Sylvania that I would occasionally see on sale for $24.95 with a $5 rebate, $19.95 AR. That's more like $35 today with inflation. With those kind of prices the bulb has to be on a lot and last a lot of hours to get a payback. The light was a nicer white than the yellowish incandescent bulbs. It never made a sound. It never flickered. It seemed to last forever. But one day, it just would not go on, and that was how it went. Quality sometimes pays for itself.

heh my first was a panasonic long long ago. it went for about 10 bucks and it was kind of lousy at startup, it took minutes to get to full brightness. pretty sad by todays standards.

Here I thought this was about the individual LEDs you can get at places like Radio Shack. My son bought a gross and wants to wire up some gadgets with button batteries. Anyone know a good online guide for kids? The ones we've googled are confusing. Thanks in advance.

i dunno, instructables.com?


Lowes and Home depot are pretty good places for CFL, and I look around when I go there and ask about substitutes for a 150 watt 3way, but NOTHING they have now puts out that much light and fits a normal fixture.

i dunno, i notice all their displays are using incadescents. ikeas displays are all cf's.


I have never had a EL nightlight fail and some are now at least 10 years old 24/7 how many hours is many or are you talking about something else?

i dunno, i just remember reading about the strips for lighting cases and such having limited life spans a while back. maybe the nightlights are not driven very hard.


I won't pick on Ikea, since I basically like the place, but they do sell some low quality lighting products, and many times its the sort of thing that doesn't show up for a few months. Most of the time I think the stuff is OK, and its cheap enough that if a few models turn out bad its not a big loss unless of course the thing catches on fire or something.

i dunno, my entire house is filled with cf's. i have 6 ikea low wattage cf's in the room i'm in right now, from task lighting to general room light. i only turn on the ones that are needed, so far over the years i've only had one burn out so far. i've had lights of america ones burn out though. my oldests panasonics died of old age...those didn't last long. the ge 100watt equivs i have are still kicking, but those are too new to judge.

sunlight bulbs are preference. i don'tthink they work in bedrooms for instance. i prefer warmer bulbs, its not about accuracy but warmth instead of cold light for certain spaces. probably depends on your decor too.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
Gadget didn't ring the right bell for me, is he wanting to build flashers like the things people wear at a rave? Generally those use some small active circuit to control the LED, lots of luck if he plans on building them cheaper than China, but just to learn something here is a kit for $4 http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C6891

Lowes and Home Depot have a LARGE selection of bulbs, conventional and CFL, but incandescent sells fixtures, not CFL. When selling a house one of things you need to do in put in all the top wattage bulbs you can safely, make the place glow, and the new owner can feel good about turning your palace into a siberian prision with blue lights.
 

HomeAppraiser

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2005
2,562
1
0
No just keeping it simple. He took apart one of those keychain LED spot lights and now wants to add LEDs to his toys. T-rex that has red glowing eyes when you press its head and such.
 

chexi

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2000
1,030
0
0
Yes, OLED's have had a problem with the lifespan of blue. The other colors have very long lifespans. They will get it for blue too *crosses fingers*. So, the lifespan issue does impact displays (at the moment), but should not impact home lighting applications.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,309
1,538
126
Originally posted by: HomeAppraiser
No just keeping it simple. He took apart one of those keychain LED spot lights and now wants to add LEDs to his toys. T-rex that has red glowing eyes when you press its head and such.

Button cells don't have enough capacity for long-term fun, but they'll work (for awhile). As Mike mentioned, you have to have an idea what the forward voltage is for your particular LEDs. Red for example tends to be lower than white and white has dropped over the past decade or so from a little above 4.1V to closer to 3.2V. If you can't find the forward voltage rating you might guesstimate around 2.5 for red and 3.2 for white, leading to something like;

4 (button cells) * 1.5V = 6V
6V - 2.5V (single red LED forward drop) = 3.5V
Max current is typically 30mA, but will drop with battery voltage so,
3.5V / 0.030A = 117 (Ohm resistor)
Round that up to nearest common value, 120 Ohm (1/8 or 1/4 are common)

Put one 120 Ohm resistor in series with each LED.
You could have higher efficiency using only 3 button cells and a smaller resistor, but the smaller the resistor the more important it is to know the forward voltage drop of the specific LED you have. Even though efficiency is lower, a side-benefit is that with 4 cells instead of 3, each cell will drain lower before their series voltage drops below that of the forward voltage drop of the LED. 120Ohm will also give you a reasonable amount of light out of a white or blue, etc, color though lower than red.

Many guides will get more advanced pretty quick and do parallel and series LED, but that's a lot of button cells or current to ask of them, IMO you'd best off just staying with 4, or 3 if you know the forward drop of the LED as mentioned above. Resistors are cheap though, and your red forward voltage might be lower than 2.5V. Get the next higher ohmage resistor (possibly 150 Ohm) if you have a choice and try it first with the red, or try using only 3 button cells in series first instead of 4.
 

fang

Banned
Oct 26, 2006
2
0
0
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Rivulentt

Junior Member
Oct 25, 2006
21
0
0
Originally posted by: davee1
check these out...cool stuff....cheaper and more to choose from. I have some of these bulbs and they are like....the future of lighting.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=MR16


Word to the wise. I've bought a bunch of led replacement bulbs for my car from superbrightleds, and nearly all of them have gone dead. The parking lights went dead because of the heat of the headlamps (which I can't blame on them entirely), but more sadly the cabin lights which only light when the doors are open have gone dead as well. It was more than likely the heat of florida's summers that killed them, but why sell a product that is going to fail while in normal use? I won't be buying from them again.

But yes, LED lighting = the future. I have one of those cheasy lights that wrap around your head and man is it useful for going around the back of the computer/entertainment system.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
Spotted a new 3way bulb the wife bought, YIPES 50/200/250, had me prowling the aisles at Home Depot, found a N:Vision 42 watt 2600 lumen spiral for $9.97 and play to give it a test soon. So far its put in the CFL, she comes home, gives me that I won't live in the dark look, and puts in the old bulb.
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
4,363
1
81
I was in a nightclub a few weeks ago with LED flood-lighting around the entire periphery, shining on the walls. The lights smoothly changed colors the entire time, it was a very cool effect.
 

elektrolokomotive

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2004
1,637
0
0
Originally posted by: HomeAppraiser
Here I thought this was about the individual LEDs you can get at places like Radio Shack. My son bought a gross and wants to wire up some gadgets with button batteries. Anyone know a good online guide for kids? The ones we've googled are confusing. Thanks in advance.

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