Cheez moved out to wilderness, then got free housing, & going back to Wilderness

[Torn Mind]

My tea leaves say Squirrel got some land near the Hudson Bay.

Better have that lifetime supply of good generator gas.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Haha not that far. Only like an hour from where I live. I didn't want to buy too far as the logistics of going to work on it become harder.

Once you get super far north it really starts to be quite barren. Here at least we still have trees and nature and stuff.

There's some areas that are already a bit open too.

I don't have mineral rights so I need to inform myself more on how that works, since I do see mining stakes. There's a trail going through that goes beyond the property on both sides. Want to make sure they don't actually plan to start doing anything extensive. I think they're suppose to get my permission first, but those are things I need to find out.

 

[Torn Mind]

Haha not that far. Only like an hour from where I live. I didn't want to buy too far as the logistics of going to work on it become harder.

Once you get super far north it really starts to be quite barren. Here at least we still have trees and nature and stuff.

There's some areas that are already a bit open too.

I don't have mineral rights so I need to inform myself more on how that works, since I do see mining stakes. There's a trail going through that goes beyond the property on both sides. Want to make sure they don't actually plan to start doing anything extensive. I think they're suppose to get my permission first, but those are things I need to find out.

I learned there is a Moonbeam in the province.

Unless there is significant deviation in common law, miners or other companies having their waste leak into your land can consitute trespass.

And make sure to enforce your boundaries with actual evidence of activity or else "adverse possession" could become an issue.

No doubt if you want to fence the whole boundary, that'll cost you an arm and a leg for the fence itself and clearing away the land for a fence.

 

[lxskllr]

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing"
But on the other side it didn't say nothing
That side was made for you and me

 

[Red Squirrel]

I learned there is a Moonbeam in the province.

Unless there is significant deviation in common law, miners or other companies having their waste leak into your land can consitute trespass.

And make sure to enforce your boundaries with actual evidence of activity or else "adverse possession" could become an issue.

No doubt if you want to fence the whole boundary, that'll cost you an arm and a leg for the fence itself and clearing away the land for a fence.

Yeah right now there is flagging tape but I want to do something more permanent. Probably cut a decent size trail or even a road there eventually just to create separation, and then a fence, even if it's just a really crude one using logs/branches. I'd eventually plant hedge seeds in there so that it creates a natural wall. Then put signs that say private property.

I won't do anything at the road not even signs, as I don't want to attract thieves. That's really going to be my biggest threat. Theft is getting worse and worse everywhere. Going to have to get creative while also ensuring I can't get in trouble for whatever I do. Thieves are highly protected by the law.

 

[zinfamous]

It's about self sufficiency. Right now if I lose my job I basically lose everything. If I'm self sufficient that won't be the case. Also less affected by globalist stuff going on, prices of everything going up etc. Especially once I get into growing my own food. Going to be a rather easygoing stress free life where I have more time to spend working for myself instead of a big corporation.

I don't want to have to work for the rest of my life.

lol at the 10-15 hours of day you will absolutely have to work to sustain only yourself, for the rest of your life, just trying to grow your own food in a climate that allows like, 2-3 plants that can provide you any kind of sustenance.

Planning for the real world really hasn't been a thing for you for a while, I guess.

 

[Torn Mind]

Squirrel needed to get a degree in Agriculture, Law,
Also needs to get trade training in electrical for his fields of Solar.
And an MBA.

Capital expenditures for tractors and the like.

 

[Captante]

I don't have mineral rights so I need to inform myself more on how that works, since I do see mining stakes. There's a trail going through that goes beyond the property on both sides. Want to make sure they don't actually plan to start doing anything extensive. I think they're suppose to get my permission first, but those are things I need to find out.

Don't you think it might have been wise to learn about that stuff PRIOR to buying a substantial parcel of land on which other people potentially own the mining/mineral rights?

I mean..... what could go wrong?

CAPP - Mineral Rights in Canada (Applies to Ontario)

 

[MrSquished]

Oh, I am so looking forward to the rude awakening ol' Squirrel is in for.

Yeah he doesn't really know what he's getting into. From all his descriptions his 40 acres is nowhere near being ready to go off the grid with, And his ideas about removing the trees he's said so far were not going to work. He's going to have to clear that land and make sure it's arable, And even then he only has very few months to grow in in that climate.

It's going to take a lot of work and a ton of money to get to a point where you have set up a place to live and live off of that's even 50% of the conveniences he has now.

Going to be like watching a cheez video just with a little bit more of an IQ

 

[MrSquished]

I think we would all chip in a little bit of cash if Squirrel promises to document this on YouTube. It will be wondrous.

 

[Torn Mind]

Percolation, plumbing.

Not to mention as these places are isolated, it means all the local contractors might know the area a little too well and might want to "goon up" vulnerable properties to stimulated the "economy".

 

[Red Squirrel]

Don't you think it might have been wise to learn about that stuff PRIOR to buying a substantial parcel of land on which other people potentially own the mining/mineral rights?

I mean..... what could go wrong?

CAPP - Mineral Rights in Canada (Applies to Ontario)

Oh they can't just come and turn it into an open pit. They drill at most. They could build underground tunnels but it would be 100's of feet deep. My entire city is full of these tunnels. You RARELY get mineral rights when buying land. I was more concerned about getting tree rights. Can't find much info online about how it works in details either, but from what the lawyer told me they need my permission before they can do anything. The stakes I found are from before I bought it.

 

[Captante]

ANY type of active major mining operation on or near/under your property will end up being a real bummer.

And they apparently don't need your permission to set up shop "next door" then mine beneath the surface underneath your property pretty much as extensively as they want too!

 

[Red Squirrel]

That's fairly standard and could happen anywhere really. My worse fear is the city amalgamating this whole area at some point and then I end up having to pay the high city taxes, need permits, utilities etc and put up with what I tried to get away from in first place. But at least with 40 acres it gives me a buffer, provided they don't pull eminent domain on me. That's more of a 30+ year problem though, I don't see that happening any time soon.

There's already a big open pit basically right next to my city as it is. The nearby houses will feel the blasting fairly often. The mine is temporary though, I think it's suppose to close down in like 10 years or something like that. Then it will be converted into a lake and conservation area.

There's a lookout now where you can go watch them work, I've been once. Need to go take more pics some time it's actually kind of neat to see.

 

[pete6032]

You won't find me in a bar. Mainly because I am chicken...but also...I don't spending money on frivolous things...and too egotistical to sip alcohol. I would rather read Vogue or Vanity Fair than deal with alcohol.

Hey guys I found the life of the party.

 

[Torn Mind]

ANY type of active major mining operation on or near/under your property will end up being a real bummer.

And they apparently don't need your permission to set up shop "next door" then mine beneath the surface underneath your property pretty much as extensively as they want too!

Not necessarily for the second paragraph so if he got the money to battle in court. Civil trespass counts over the air and under the ground.

 

[Red Squirrel]

They can go under but I am pretty sure there are regulations about how deep. Ex: they can't undermine at a shallow depth and cause a cave in. I don't foresee much mining activity though. The mineral rights thing is mostly if I come across gold I'm not allowed to actually keep it. I do want to look into what it takes to buy the mineral rights at some point, because I did run into quartz so there probably is gold. Might cost a lot of money though.

There does not seem to be much details available on all the intricate details on this stuff, only basic stuff that I already knew. Overall not too worried, lots of people own land that they don't have the mineral rights to. It's very rare to get them. There are probably mine tunnels under my house right here in the city.

Pretty neat map of tunnels:

https://imgur.com/a/NYqkVU2

 

[Captante]

That's one place I would never ever want to work!


View from the CN Tower about two thirds of the way up for reference:

 

[pmv]

lol at the 10-15 hours of day you will absolutely have to work to sustain only yourself, for the rest of your life, just trying to grow your own food in a climate that allows like, 2-3 plants that can provide you any kind of sustenance.

Planning for the real world really hasn't been a thing for you for a while, I guess.

I really don't understand what this discussion is about. Is Squirrel doing some sort of "survivalist" thing? Or just a more northerly recreation of the 70s sitcom The Good Life?

The only thing that occurs to me is that those woods look nice for hiking in.

 

[Torn Mind]

§ 159 Intrusions Upon, Beneath, and Above Surface of Earth​

Comment on Subsection (1):

Reporter’s Notes

Case Citations - by Jurisdiction

(1) Except as stated in Subsection (2), a trespass may be committed on, beneath, or above the surface of the earth.
(2) Flight by aircraft in the air space above the land of another is a trespass if, but only if,
(a) it enters into the immediate reaches of the air space next to the land, and
(b) it interferes substantially with the other’s use and enjoyment of his land.


See Reporter’s Notes.

Caveat:

The Institute expresses no opinion as to whether the rule stated in Subsection (2) is to be applied to the flight of space rockets, satellites, missiles, and similar objects.



Comment on Subsection (1):

a. This Section has reference to a trespass actionable under the rule stated in § 158, to which reference should be made.



b. The phrase “surface of the earth” includes soil, water, trees, and other growths, and any structures on the land or affixed to it.



c. There may be a separation of possession or ownership of the surface of the earth and what is beneath or above the surface, or of some portion of it. This may result from a transfer or an agreement, or may be the effect of a special custom or rule of law in a particular jurisdiction, as where the owner of the apex of a vein of ore is the owner and entitled to possession of the vein, although below the surface it penetrates beneath the premises of another. The rules which determine under what circumstances there is such a separation of possession or ownership are not within the scope of this Restatement.



d. Trespass may be committed upon the vertical as well as the horizontal surface of another’s premises. Thus, if unprivileged, it is a trespass to pile dirt against a division wall or fence which stands wholly upon another’s land, or to paint a sign or trail a vine on the wall, or to attach an electric wire to another’s house.



e. Trespass beneath the surface may be committed by building a foundation wall in such a way as to encroach upon neighboring premises, or by tunneling beneath the surface of the land into adjoining land, or by any other unprivileged entry on land beneath the surface. Thus if there is a cave extending beneath the land of two persons, with an entrance on the land of each, an entry by one person into so much of the cave as is beneath the other’s land is a trespass. So too, it is a trespass if one puts such a weight on his land as to cause an upheaval of the surface of another’s land.



f. Except as stated in Subsection (2), an unprivileged intrusion into the space above the surface of the earth, at whatever height above the surface, is a trespass. See, however, the Caveat as to space rockets, satellites, missiles, and kindred objects, as to which there is as yet no decision law.



Illustrations:
1. A erects a house on the border of his land. The eaves of the roof overhang B’s land. A is a trespasser.

2. A strings a telephone wire across a corner of B’s land. Although no telephone poles are placed on B’s land, this is a trespass.

3. A extends his arm over the boundary fence between A’s land and B’s land. A is a trespasser.

4. A, while hunting birds on a public pond, fires shot across B’s land close to the surface. The shot do not come to rest on B’s land, but fall into another public body of water on the other side of it. A is a trespasser.



Comment on Subsection (2):

g. Sir Edward Coke once gave utterance to the statement that “cujus est solum, ejus est usque ad coelum,” which, taken literally, means that he who owns the soil owns upward unto heaven. This has been repeated in many cases in which there has been no question of anything more than the immediate space above the ground. The advent of aviation has meant that it can no longer be regarded as law, if it ever was. There must, in the public interest, and to avoid impossible confusion and hindrances, be limits to the upward ownership of air space. It is only in cases involving the flight of aircraft that these have as yet been considered at all. No doubt similar questions will arise as to the flight of space rockets, satellites, missiles, and the like, with the likelihood of similar conclusions; but since there are as yet no decisions with respect to such matters, they are left open in the Caveat.



h. The earlier cases dealing with aviation made various attempts to state some limitation upon the height to which the ownership of the soil confers an exclusive right to the use of the air. Thus it was held that there was a trespass only if the aircraft flew within a zone of the landowner’s potential use or occupation of the space, as by the construction of a building or growing trees; or only if there was flight below the minimum altitudes prescribed by Federal regulation.



i. In 1946, in United States v. Causby, 328 U.S. 256, 66 S.Ct. 1062, 90 L.Ed. 1206, the Supreme Court declared that Federal statutes, together with administrative regulations adopted pursuant to them, had the effect of making the upper air, above the prescribed minimum altitudes of flight, a public highway. The decision has been held to supersede state law on the matter, so that liability for entry into the air space henceforth becomes a matter of Federal law. So far as aviation is concerned, private rights in the upper air no longer exist.



j. In the Causby Case the court went on to say that if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have “exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere,” and “invasions of it are in the same category as invasions of the surface.” The effect of this is clearly to preserve the action of trespass as a remedy where the “immediate reaches” are invaded by flight.



k. The actual holding in the Causby Case was that the rights of the landowner were invaded, and there was a wrongful “taking” of his property, when the flights into the “immediate reaches” of the air space substantially interfered with his use of the land. Subsequent Federal cases have limited the trespass liability to such cases, so that, even though there is a flight below the prescribed minimum altitude, there is no trespass unless there is such interference with actual, as distinguished from potential, use.



l. “Immediate reaches” of the land has not been defined as yet, except to mean that “the aircraft flights were at such altitudes as to interfere substantially with the landowner’s possession and use of the airspace above the surface.” No more definite line can be drawn than is suggested by the word “immediate.” In the ordinary case, flight at 500 feet or more above the surface is not within the “immediate reaches,” while flight within 50 feet, which interferes with actual use, clearly is, and flight within 150 feet, which also so interferes, may present a question of fact.



m. Even though the flight is not within the “immediate reaches” of the air space, it may still unreasonably interfere with the use and enjoyment of the land. In such a case the liability will rest upon the basis of nuisance rather than trespass. See Chapter 40.

 

[Torn Mind]

I really don't understand what this discussion is about. Is Squirrel doing some sort of "survivalist" thing? Or just a more northerly recreation of the 70s sitcom The Good Life?

The only thing that occurs to me is that those woods look nice for hiking in.

He bought a 40 acre lot in order to try and make his dream of living nearly untaxed and "self-sufficiently".

It's probably somewhere in the proximity of Rt. 11 in Ontario. Go north of it, and the wilderness reigns supreme.

 

[mindless1]

The only thing that occurs to me is that those woods look nice for hiking in disappearing people.

FTFY

 

[MrSquished]

I really don't understand what this discussion is about. Is Squirrel doing some sort of "survivalist" thing? Or just a more northerly recreation of the 70s sitcom The Good Life?

The only thing that occurs to me is that those woods look nice for hiking in.

Not quite like that lol. It's on 40 acres of wooded land totally off the grid, that he is going to have to completely mold and create a place not only capable of sustaining his life, including much of his food, but a nice and comfortable life.

So he will have to work on plumbing, electric, leveling land, finding the most arable areas, probably build greenhouses due to the climate, then keep those going. Literally everything. From some of his musings it's not looking good already. Since it doesn't seem that he is going to pay too many people to do this for him, which would be really pricey, but tackle it a lot himself. This needs to be on YouTube

 

[sdifox]

I really don't understand what this discussion is about. Is Squirrel doing some sort of "survivalist" thing? Or just a more northerly recreation of the 70s sitcom The Good Life?

The only thing that occurs to me is that those woods look nice for hiking in.

He bought 40 acres of wilderness. And imagines himself to be Bear Grylls.

 

[IronWing]

§ 159 Intrusions Upon, Beneath, and Above Surface of Earth​

Comment on Subsection (1):

Reporter’s Notes

Case Citations - by Jurisdiction

(1) Except as stated in Subsection (2), a trespass may be committed on, beneath, or above the surface of the earth.
(2) Flight by aircraft in the air space above the land of another is a trespass if, but only if,
(a) it enters into the immediate reaches of the air space next to the land, and
(b) it interferes substantially with the other’s use and enjoyment of his land.

Red is in Canada so rules are likely different.

Under Canadian law, as under U.S. law, when the mineral estate is severed from the surface estate, the mineral estate is almost always treated as the dominant estate and mining use trumps surface use. Only if the patent/deed specifies that the surface rights come first would this not be true.