Meanwhile Intel will be introducing Broadwell and Cherrytrail products using an actual 14nm-class process next year and they've already demonstrated a very early Broadwell sample showing the same CPU performance as Haswell while using 30% less power.
Any time we talk about new nodes, we should wash our mouths out with soap. If Intel does new math, so will we
Everyone "lies" about their geometries.Do you have the process details for Intel 14nm node?
There is nothing at the 14nm node that measures 14nm. It is a liars contest.
If you think that Intel is the best liar of the semiconductor industry, you should back up your claims with the actual numbers.
There is nothing at the 14nm node that measures 14nm.
Do you have the process details for Intel 14nm node?
There is nothing at the 14nm node that measures 14nm. It is a liars contest.
If you think that Intel is the best liar of the semiconductor industry, you should back up your claims with the actual numbers.
Do you have the process details for Intel 14nm node?
There is nothing at the 14nm node that measures 14nm. It is a liars contest.
If you think that Intel is the best liar of the semiconductor industry, you should back up your claims with the actual numbers. And, follow the advise of Scott Thompson, a former Intel Fellow:
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1262887&page_number=1
The point is simple - the ARM ecosystem (including A7) is going to get 2 process node improvements in 2 years and Intel is going to receive just one.
16/14nm is just a FinFET-enabled variation of their 20nm process, essentially.The point is simple - the ARM ecosystem (including A7) is going to get 2 process node improvements in 2 years and Intel is going to receive just one. Now, you can argue all you want tills the cows come home about how TSMC/Common Platform guys are deluded that they can manage this. Your view! Just remember that Samsung/TSMC/IBM et al are not chimps, and Samsung is already doing <20nm in memory. so, it is not an idle boast. I know it is different from logic, but they do have the history of successful execution in semis. you can't dismiss them as easily as you did AMD.
So you are counting the half-baked 14nm as a new node?
It doesn't matter whether it's a new node or not. See my post above.Of course it is a new node, you get FinFets over planar with 14nm-XM.
Yeah, that's a good point. Even if 16/14nm "counts" as a new node, two nodes in two years don't mean nearly as much when the first was so delayed.Right now GPU makers sit on a 3 year nodecycle thanks to TSMCs inability to deliver. As always with these roadmap slide foundries, lets see when we sit with actual products.
Not to mention the PR that now entered those roadmaps.
It doesn't matter whether it's a new node or not. See my post above.
I wish you luck teaching the harassment gangs some process technology :awe:
Intel engineers have generally been quite open and honest about what
they were doing and with good arguments. What the foundries are now
doing at 20nm-->14nm: Not scaling the MT1 half pitch is what Intel
already did at the 90nm-->65nm transition. Intel scaled the MT1 half
pitch only 5% from 110nm to 105nm.
Now when the rest of the industry is finally doing the same as Intel has
been doing since 2005 the fanboys are calling it a fake 14nm process..
The above is from a famous presentation of Yan Borodovsky:
"Marching to the beat of Moore's law" of 2006(!) where he explains
Intel's decision not to scale the MT1 (metal layer 1) and keep
scaling it less as the rest of the industry.
http://document.li/982u
The most difficult process step with the lowest k1 is the MT1
layer. By scaling it less it becomes easier to achieve a process-
node. By the time they had invented a new 1D SRAM cell layout
which they could scale even without scaling the MT1 half pitch.
This became one of the main motivators for Intel's deviation from
the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors which
the rest of the industry is following
http://www.itrs.net/Links/2012Winter/1205 Presentation/Lithography_12052012.pdf
I guess even showing Intel's own engineering presentations won't
change anything here. Every post with useful information is subsequently
buried in a stream of BS posts...
Hans
Of course it is a new node, you get FinFets over planar with 14nm-XM.
It doesn't matter whether it's a new node or not. See my post above.
The fact that you're still arguing about it shows that you've learned nothing from my post. What you're arguing about does not matter.Im not talking about the naming, im talking about the physical(3D) and electrical characteristics of the 14nm-XM node vs 22/20nm node. They may use the 22/20nm BEOL but the FEOL for the 14nm-XM is a completely new process.
The fact that you're still arguing about it shows that you've learned nothing from my post. What you're arguing about does not matter.
It does matter because a new node brings substantial gains in density and electrical characteristics of the xtors than the older node. I dont see what the naming of the process, that you were talking about, has anything to do with the 14nm-XM is a new node over the 22/20nm.
Im not arguing about the naming and if it's corresponding to the Physical size of the xtors, im arguing if the 14nm-XM is a new node over the 22/20nm.
It's applicable to the "real node" vs. "not a real node" garbage as well. It doesn't matter whether or not it qualifies as a new node by definition -- the only way to assess that is by comparing published process specifications.It does matter because a new node brings substantial gains in density and electrical characteristics of the xtors than the older node. I dont see what the naming of the process, that you were talking about, has anything to do with the 14nm-XM is a new node over the 22/20nm.
Im not arguing about the naming and if it's corresponding to the Physical size of the xtors, im arguing if the 14nm-XM is a new node over the 22/20nm.
The status charts on page 4 should dispel any remaining notions that Intel isn't on track to produce 14nm chips according to their updated schedule.
Spoiler alert: Production Intel 14nm SoCs will not arrive until 2015, believe it.
Frankly I'd be terrified looking at that 14nm yield chart. Daniel Nenni was there and he has some more info.
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/2954-qcom-delivers-first-tsmc-20nm-mobile-chips.html
Spoiler alert: Production Intel 14nm SoCs will not arrive until 2015, believe it.