CherryTrail-T information.

[erunion]

Frankly I'd be terrified looking at that 14nm yield chart. Daniel Nenni was there and he has some more info.

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/2954-qcom-delivers-first-tsmc-20nm-mobile-chips.html

The title is about a 20nm modem but then he send the whole article talking about a new 28nm snapdragon. Clearly, a reliable source of information.:\

 

[bullzz]

@SiliconWars "Spoiler alert: Production Intel 14nm SoCs will not arrive until 2015, believe it."
so he gave absolutely no proof to back that statement. I think I will believe Intel this time

personally, I am not interested in broadwell. I am more interested in what cherrytrail has to offer. with a smaller die, yeild is only going to be better. cheerytrail is the actual competitor to what qualcomm would put out, not broadwell

 

[jpiniero]

Amusing as that's not what I heard in any of the material presented today - they were pretty clear about having 14nm SoCs in 2H 2014.

I imagine OEMs would not be thrilled about a launch in December, if that's what it takes to get the shipments high enough for a launch. Super low volume products like Broadwell-K and the Xeons could be good to go then.

Still think it's more important that Intel get Airmont out in 2014.

 

[LogOver]

Official Intel Roadmap
http://www.techspot.com/news/54777-...nd-64-bit-android-tablets-on-the-horizon.html

Cherry-Trail in second half of 2014, 64-bit versions of Windows & Android for Bay-Trail in beginning of 2014.

 

[erunion]

Official Intel Roadmap
http://www.techspot.com/news/54777-...nd-64-bit-android-tablets-on-the-horizon.html

Cherry-Trail in second half of 2014, 64-bit versions of Windows & Android for Bay-Trail in beginning of 2014.

Okay this slide requires explanation. Value. Sofia. External fab. What is this?

 

[R0H1T]

@SiliconWars "Spoiler alert: Production Intel 14nm SoCs will not arrive until 2015, believe it."
so he gave absolutely no proof to back that statement. I think I will believe Intel this time

personally, I am not interested in broadwell. I am more interested in what cherrytrail has to offer. with a smaller die, yeild is only going to be better. cheerytrail is the actual competitor to what qualcomm would put out, not broadwell

Then you must be excited to know that Qualcomm's next gen ARM v8 SoC are gonna be on 20nm, that's the only logical conclusion as to why the recent GPU launches are not on the new node, & the performance leap is going to be somewhere in the region of 40~60%, taking the A7 as a benchmark, so Intel is going to have a lot of competition going forward to get their chips in a wide(r) range of products.

 

[VengenceIsMine]

The title is about a 20nm modem but then he send the whole article talking about a new 28nm snapdragon. Clearly, a reliable source of information.:\

I would bet SW has no idea who Daniel Nenni is (he's a sales guy, not engineering) or his track record on predicting Intel & Samsung's downfall. He currently flogs the fabless semiconductor model as the be all and end all of everything (because that's his job). He couldn't be a less objective observer, it's his bloody business to flog that line. It might as well be quote from Don King.

 

[bullzz]

@R0H1T - agreed. I am expecting a fierce slugfest between intel,qualcomm n samsung for the next round of nexus devices

 

[bullzz]

something here abt sofia - https://twitter.com/PatrickMoorhead/status/403565655376412672/photo/1

atom after cherry trail is broxton? who the hell comes up with names like this

 

[R0H1T]

@R0H1T - agreed. I am expecting a fierce slugfest between intel,qualcomm n samsung for the next round of nexus devices

It's a bit sad that we are going nowhere on the desktop front & only the dGPU's, HSA/HUMA to a lesser extent, are the only things worth looking forward to in the next couple of years IMO :|

 

[AtenRa]

It's a bit sad that we are going nowhere on the desktop front & only the dGPU's, HSA/HUMA to a lesser extent, are the only things worth looking forward to in the next couple of years IMO :|

What we want is better performance, the consumer shouldn't be bothered how he/she getting the performance. Either coming from dGPUs or CPUs it should be the same for us.

 

[R0H1T]

What we want is better performance, the consumer shouldn't be bothered how he/she getting the performance. Either coming from dGPUs or CPUs it should be the same for us.

Well I am & the fact that eight cores CPU's aren't common place today, even after the first quad core x86 processor was introduced almost a decade ago, is just a sorry state of affairs no matter how you look at it & no amount of dGPU's is going to fix that.

 

[SiliconWars]

I would bet SW has no idea who Daniel Nenni is (he's a sales guy, not engineering) or his track record on predicting Intel & Samsung's downfall. He currently flogs the fabless semiconductor model as the be all and end all of everything (because that's his job). He couldn't be a less objective observer, it's his bloody business to flog that line. It might as well be quote from Don King.

Really? Was he also wrong about the last delay?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Okay this slide requires explanation. Value. Sofia. External fab. What is this?

More information here:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-talks-new-strategy-expands-atom-roadmap-sofia-broxton/64740.html

 

[24601]

More information here:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-talks-new-strategy-expands-atom-roadmap-sofia-broxton/64740.html

Lol, Intel vying for TSMC 20nm SOC wafers too?!??!?

I wonder how expensive it will be per wafer with this massive demand.

 

[NTMBK]

Lol, Intel vying for TSMC 20nm SOC wafers too?!??!?

I wonder how expensive it will be per wafer with this massive demand.

Hey, there's always GloFo :awe:

 

[24601]

Hey, there's always GloFo :awe:

Intel and AMD fabbing x86 together in harmony @ 28nm GloFo would be too funny.

Must be the end times :awe:

 

[podspi]

The quotes from this article are crazy, imho:

Though initially Intel planned to use ARM technology for SoFIA, Intel confirmed Thursday that it will be based on x86.

In the corresponding value segment, Intel will roll out SoFIA. This chip is unique because it won’t be made on the company’s own foundries, instead manufacturing will be contracted out in “the interest of speed.”

Both Broxton and SoFIA will be manufactured on the 14-nanometer process and will be 64-bit. Krzanich said they are both part of the process to make Atom an equal partner with Core.

So... how can the two chips be manufactured on the same process if they're being built at different foundries? And why would Intel want to do this anyway?! The only thing I can think of is to allow partners to easily spin custom SoCs, but if Intel plans on entering the foundry business why wouldn't they just offer this service themselves?!

 

[erunion]

The issue with Sofia seems to be the modem. Intel modems are still fabbed at TSMC. Looks like they want to get an integrated product out before intel fabbed modems will be ready.

So most likely it will be 28nm TSMC. I know intel previously ported the old atom core(bonnell?) to TSMC. I wonder if that's what sofia will use.

 

[24601]

The issue with Sofia seems to be the modem. Intel modems are still fabbed at TSMC. Looks like they want to get an integrated product out before intel fabbed modems will be ready.

So most likely it will be 28nm TSMC. I know intel previously ported the old atom core(bonnell?) to TSMC. I wonder if that's what sofia will use.

What's the point in integrating it if you force yourself back to 28nm?

 

[Ajay]

What's the point in integrating it if you force yourself back to 28nm?

And on a competitors fab! IMHO, Intel want's to get x86 on mobile platforms at all costs. The faster they can get x86 tablets and phones on Android/x86; the better their chances of blocking ARM's ownership of this space by virtue of the weight of ARM based software (as happened with Wintel).

I guess the sleeping giant has, in fact, woken up.

 

[Khato]

So... how can the two chips be manufactured on the same process if they're being built at different foundries? And why would Intel want to do this anyway?! The only thing I can think of is to allow partners to easily spin custom SoCs, but if Intel plans on entering the foundry business why wouldn't they just offer this service themselves?!

The initial version of SoFIA will be fabricated by a third party. This is because it's essentially an Infineon product with the ARM cores that they previously used removed and replaced with IA. I somewhat wonder if the IA core used for this might be the old Atom core as I believe Intel already had a version of it that could be made by TSMC. Edit: Guess that Hermann Eul actually stated that it will be a Silvermont core. Nice.

However the next version of SoFIA (wasn't clear whether this was late 2015 or 2016) would be brought in to Intel's 14nm process. (Such was stated by BK during his presentation.)

By the way, replays of all the presentations are now available - http://intelstudios.edgesuite.net/im/2013/live_im.html

 

[cbn]

So... how can the two chips be manufactured on the same process if they're being built at different foundries? And why would Intel want to do this anyway?! The only thing I can think of is to allow partners to easily spin custom SoCs, but if Intel plans on entering the foundry business why wouldn't they just offer this service themselves?!

Here was the press release from 2009:

http://www.tsmc.com/tsmcdotcom/PRListingNewsAction.do?action=detail&language=E&newsid=3441

Santa Clara, CA & Hsin-chu, Taiwan, March 2, 2009 – Intel Corporation and TSMC today announced a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to collaborate on addressing technology platform, intellectual property (IP) infrastructure, and System-on-Chip (SoC) solutions. Under the MOU, Intel would port its Atom processor CPU cores to the TSMC technology platform including processes, IP, libraries, and design flows. The collaboration is intended to expand Intel’s Atom SoCs availability for Intel customers for a wider range of applications through integration with TSMC’s diverse IP infrastructure.

This MOU is an important step in a long-term strategic technology cooperation between Intel and TSMC. With this joint effort, Intel intends to significantly broaden the market opportunities for its Intel Atom SoCs and accelerate deployment of the architecture through multiple SoC implementations. At the same time, TSMC extends its technology platform to serve the Intel Architecture market segments.

“We believe this effort will make it easier for customers with significant design expertise to take advantage of benefits of the Intel Architecture in a manner that allows them to customize the implementation precisely to their needs,” said Paul Otellini, Intel president and CEO. “The combination of the compelling benefits of our Atom processor combined with the experience and technology of TSMC is another step in our long-term strategic relationship.”

“TSMC values our strategic relationship with Intel. This MOU brings together the Intel Architecture and the TSMC technology platform. We expect this collaboration will help proliferate the Atom processor SoC and foster overall semiconductor growth,” said Dr. Rick Tsai, president and CEO of TSMC. “With this agreement, our technology platform extends beyond the two companies’ current collaboration to support future Intel embedded x86 products.”

The Intel Atom processor features 47 million transistors and is Intel’s smallest processor. Products manufactured through the agreement may find adoption in embedded CPU market segments such as mobile internet Devices (MIDs), smart-phones, netbooks, nettops, and AC-powered consumer electronics device. The processor is designed to bring the whole Internet and the benefits of computing to an emerging class of consumer-friendly devices.

About Intel
Intel (NASDAQ: INTC), the world leader in silicon innovation, develops technologies, products and initiatives to continually advance how people work and live. Additional information about Intel is available at www.intel.com/pressroom and blogs.intel.com.

About TSMC
TSMC is the world’s largest dedicated semiconductor foundry, providing the industry’s leading process technology and the foundry’s largest portfolio of process-proven libraries, IP, design tools and reference flows. The Company’s total managed capacity in 2008 exceeded 9 million (8-inch equivalent) wafers, including capacity from two advanced 12-inch - GIGAFABs ™, four eight-inch fabs, one six-inch fab, as well as TSMC’s wholly owned subsidiaries, WaferTech and TSMC (China), and its joint venture fab, SSMC. TSMC is the first foundry to provide 40nm production capabilities. Its corporate headquarters are in Hsinchu, Taiwan. For more information about TSMC please visit www.tsmc.com.

And yes, you are right. The agreement appears to be a way for Intel to expand the use of x86.

Maybe the reason is two fold:

1. License out x86 cores to various customers.
2. Increase Intel's ability to integrate their atom SOCs with chips that are normally found as discrete chips in phones. I'm sure a lot of this IP is probably already at TSMC. (Then at some point bring all this inhouse to be fabbed at Intel)

 

[cbn]

The issue with Sofia seems to be the modem. Intel modems are still fabbed at TSMC. Looks like they want to get an integrated product out before intel fabbed modems will be ready.

So most likely it will be 28nm TSMC. I know intel previously ported the old atom core(bonnell?) to TSMC. I wonder if that's what sofia will use.

Well, Sophia is due out 2H 2014.

So maybe it will be TSMC 20nm.

 

[cbn]

What's the point in integrating it if you force yourself back to 28nm?

Well, Penwell SOC (Medfield) was only 62mm2 (built on Intel 32nm).

So there was room left for integration on the old atom.

Looking at the picture below I am thinking they probably could have gotten the baseband into something with a reasonable die size if integrated on TSMC 28nm.

But will Sophia use the old atom on 28nm or Silvermont ported to TSMC 20nm?

I am thinking if Intel plans to bring Sophia to 14nm as step two, then it may very well be the 20nm process (with Silvermont atom) is used for step one.