Chevrolet Introduces 550hp Camaro ZL1

[Zivic]

Eh? The Focus RS (yes, not the lowly ST) is a SLUG compared to the Mustang GT. FWD and 300hp do not make a competitor to a 412HP V8 monster that trades blows with the V8 M3. They didn't bring it here because nobody would buy it at the prices it would command. Even the Focus ST will be a low-numbers car.


When the RS first came out it would have competed with the previous gen mustang.... not that hard to beat those. And it would be more about marketing in some sense vs actual performance numbers. The general public is stupid. imagine shopping fords and see their V8 stand sitting there with 316 hp or whatever it had. Then seeing a little 4 banger focus pushing 300. Joe Public will be like WTF is going on here. the are different animals, but cars like the RS need to make their way to the US in the future.

Ecoboost V6 sort of has no place next to the V8 that's already out, if it were released first there would kind of be no reason for the V8. The 300+hp V6 already fills in the entry-level, the 412hp 5.0 fills in the regular performance model, and all of the crazy models are well established by Roush, Shelby, etc.

the new 5.0 is pretty bad@ss, but I would love to see an ecoboost V6 mustang. The motor is already there and a little R&D just to fit it in. Not to replace the 5.0, but as an option. Would bring over new buyers to the mustang IMHO

Come to think of it, a Mustang V6 with manual tranny would probably equal or beat the Focus RS, and it's only $22k starting. Focus ST is going to be more expensive than that.

Proof :

Google for the showdown between M3 and Mustang Gt, they are within inches of each other on real tracks.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...d_focus_first_drive/handling_performance.html

2010 Focus RS = 0-60 in 5.9

the thing you forget about is that the M3 and mustang, while comparable on the track, appeal to different buyers. The guy buying an M3 likely doesn't give a sh!t about a mustang. He might be pissed they are comparable at the track, but the BMW buyer probably wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford. Also the guy buying an RS focus isn't likely buying a mustang either.

Bang for the buck the mustang is awesome. I love to see the 5.0 back and actually performing well. Heck, I like to see the new ST focus coming our way. If I am honest, I would consider the focus before the mustang. It is a car I could live with on a day to day basis. I could drive it in the winter, has 4 doors and a hatch... and still be able to have a little fun with it

Either way, this thread is about the camaro. Still doesn't do anything for me. Has me wondering at what HP it would start to appeal to me? honestly I don't think it ever will. To me, it fills a goofy hole between the caddy and the vette. Caddy is more practical and the vette is a better performer.

 

[exdeath]

So sexy. too bad i can't see outta the damn things. With that much power i hope it comes with P zero's or it'll never hook. lol




people here can't handle road conditions other than normal without driving like pussies. Some rwd drivers have issues with the ass of their car flying all over the place on wet roads.

P zeros? Lol? Try Nittos, or better Mickey Thompsons or Hoosiers.

 

[Elfear]

To me, it fills a goofy hole between the caddy and the vette. Caddy is more practical and the vette is a better performer.

With the price of the CTS-V and the Z06, the Camaro has a lot of market space to fill. It does get a little goofy comparing the ZL1 to a base Vette but they still each have their spot. Little more utility with four doors or more track prowess with a lighter car.

P zeros? Lol? Try Nittos, or better Mickey Thompsons or Hoosiers.

Agreed. Drag radials or performance R-compound tires are needed at that power level.

 

[punjabiplaya]

+1 for Pzero lol, save those for a GTI or something

didn't even read the post

"Goodyear Supercar F2" tires

 

[Zivic]

With the price of the CTS-V and the Z06, the Camaro has a lot of market space to fill. It does get a little goofy comparing the ZL1 to a base Vette but they still each have their spot. Little more utility with four doors or more track prowess with a lighter car.

if the msrp is 47 that is a decent price for that kind of HP, but I can think of other cars I would buy with that same money. Not necessarily higher HP ones.

 

[Arkaign]

the thing you forget about is that the M3 and mustang, while comparable on the track, appeal to different buyers. The guy buying an M3 likely doesn't give a sh!t about a mustang. He might be pissed they are comparable at the track, but the BMW buyer probably wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford. Also the guy buying an RS focus isn't likely buying a mustang either.

Bang for the buck the mustang is awesome. I love to see the 5.0 back and actually performing well. Heck, I like to see the new ST focus coming our way. If I am honest, I would consider the focus before the mustang. It is a car I could live with on a day to day basis. I could drive it in the winter, has 4 doors and a hatch... and still be able to have a little fun with it

Either way, this thread is about the camaro. Still doesn't do anything for me. Has me wondering at what HP it would start to appeal to me? honestly I don't think it ever will. To me, it fills a goofy hole between the caddy and the vette. Caddy is more practical and the vette is a better performer.

Oh yeah, for sure the M3 and Mustang GT aren't sales competitors, but they do occupy the same performance sphere now.

Even the now-replaced 315HP 4.6L Mustang GT were a lot faster than the Focus RS, with 0-60 times and 1/4 times notably better. The 5.0 just flat dominates it of course. The new V6 is every bit as fast as the 4.6L V8 was, and handles better to boot.

I do agree that some cross-shoppers wouldn't look at both the Focus and Mustang, but that brings up another problem for the Focus RS over here (one which I expect the Focus ST to hit as well) :

If someone is hunting for a compact hatch sports car, that sphere is filled by notably superior WRX and STI, along with the blistering Evo for a larger price. It might sap some sales from the other FF turbo options like the Speed3 and GTI, but it's just too small of a market. The Focus ST is already slated to be priced at or beyond the level of the WRX, and look how the Volvo C30 sold (a Focus ST C1-based vehicle sold under the Volvo badge).

To add a little pain to the whole thing, the fuel economy of the V6 mustang is better than currently recorded fuel economy of the Focus RS (convert imperial gallons to US gallons), by quite a bit.

I own a Focus, and I'm very happy with it. The new ones appear even better, though I really have no interest in another FF vehicle, perhaps ever.

EDIT : Another thing that's bothered me about the post MK1/1.5 Foci, why the F do they keep porking up in weight? Even the ST now weighs 3250lbs with a manual transmission, that's unforgivable for a 4cyl turbo FF compact.

 

[Zivic]

Oh yeah, for sure the M3 and Mustang GT aren't sales competitors, but they do occupy the same performance sphere now.

Even the now-replaced 315HP 4.6L Mustang GT were a lot faster than the Focus RS, with 0-60 times and 1/4 times notably better. The 5.0 just flat dominates it of course. The new V6 is every bit as fast as the 4.6L V8 was, and handles better to boot.

I do agree that some cross-shoppers wouldn't look at both the Focus and Mustang, but that brings up another problem for the Focus RS over here (one which I expect the Focus ST to hit as well) :

If someone is hunting for a compact hatch sports car, that sphere is filled by notably superior WRX and STI, along with the blistering Evo for a larger price. It might sap some sales from the other FF turbo options like the Speed3 and GTI, but it's just too small of a market. The Focus ST is already slated to be priced at or beyond the level of the WRX, and look how the Volvo C30 sold (a Focus ST C1-based vehicle sold under the Volvo badge).

To add a little pain to the whole thing, the fuel economy of the V6 mustang is better than currently recorded fuel economy of the Focus RS (convert imperial gallons to US gallons), by quite a bit.

I own a Focus, and I'm very happy with it. The new ones appear even better, though I really have no interest in another FF vehicle, perhaps ever.

EDIT : Another thing that's bothered me about the post MK1/1.5 Foci, why the F do they keep porking up in weight? Even the ST now weighs 3250lbs with a manual transmission, that's unforgivable for a 4cyl turbo FF compact.

What is the MSRP on the ST? If I am in the market, I get to cross shop a GTI, a MS3 and now the Focus ST... that's pretty much it. Yes, a limited market, but I think there are very loyal focus fans that have been waiting for such a car to make it here. the curb weight is a negative, and depending on the price, it might be another blow to its success.

As an evo owner, the new X's are crazy expensive, as are the new STI's... you are looking at 40+. I think they are great cars and offer a driving experience that is unmatched by almost everything else on the road, but they are just getting too expensive. Thankfully, you can get them used for low 20's and not completely beat to sh!t if you shop around.


Again with the camaro, it is getting tons of press. I get a lot of car mags. Just got Automobile mag today with the camaro convertible on the cover. I guess as an enthusiast I should be happy they are still making higher HP cars like this, but the other side of me, just looks at it like a bastardized creation that could have been so much better... though I think they did a good job with the convertible in terms of looks compared to the coupe

 

[Arkaign]

Evo XIII or IX? Either way, awesome car! It's gonna be quite a downgrade to a FF vehicle from where you're at

The 2011 WRX starts at $24k, that's probably around the same price or a shade less than Focus ST, and you get more HP and AWD, and a huge mod community including Cobb. Of course there are a lot of Cosworth Focus goodies for the C1+ Foci, but that's a little harder to come by in the states as of yet. The other goofy thing is that boosting a FF vehicle much above the mid 250-260whp levels just becomes a nightmare pretty quickly, and hardly usable for much outside of rolling power, getting out of the hole is a various mixture of torque steer, lack of traction as the weight shifts to the back off of the front wheels, wheel hop, understeer on curves even with trick diffs, etc. Modding a WRX to 400whp is possible, and will have dramatic improvements in all types of circumstances. Modding a FF vehicle to 400whp is a lot hairier, and has far less usability. Add to that the WRX is already slightly lighter than the Focus ST, even with the AWD setup (differential, axles, etc).

Agreed on the Camaro, with everything you've said about it. I'm happy it's being made, but it's not for me.

 

[Zivic]

Evo XIII or IX? Either way, awesome car! It's gonna be quite a downgrade to a FF vehicle from where you're at

The 2011 WRX starts at $24k, that's probably around the same price or a shade less than Focus ST, and you get more HP and AWD, and a huge mod community including Cobb. Of course there are a lot of Cosworth Focus goodies for the C1+ Foci, but that's a little harder to come by in the states as of yet. The other goofy thing is that boosting a FF vehicle much above the mid 250-260whp levels just becomes a nightmare pretty quickly, and hardly usable for much outside of rolling power, getting out of the hole is a various mixture of torque steer, lack of traction as the weight shifts to the back off of the front wheels, wheel hop, understeer on curves even with trick diffs, etc. Modding a WRX to 400whp is possible, and will have dramatic improvements in all types of circumstances. Modding a FF vehicle to 400whp is a lot hairier, and has far less usability. Add to that the WRX is already slightly lighter than the Focus ST, even with the AWD setup (differential, axles, etc).

Agreed on the Camaro, with everything you've said about it. I'm happy it's being made, but it's not for me.

I have a IX... with an FP Red. I really wanted to get a X, but after driving both, I thought the IX was more 'fun'.... the X being a better car

Anyways, I like the hatchbacks. I know front wheel drive has its limits, but 200-250 is more than enough to have fun with. Good friend of mine had a mazdaspeed protege. made 300+ on a dynodynamics. car was fast and fun, but only in a straight line, and only from a roll. it was just too much power for the front wheels to handle. Really the nicest one I have ever seen... he was in mazdasport mag with it. Very evo like

 

[alkemyst]

Meh, I'd rather get an M3 for that kind of money.

An M3 starts at over $10k above that. It's an entirely different price point.

 

[Zap]

EDIT : Another thing that's bothered me about the post MK1/1.5 Foci, why the F do they keep porking up in weight? Even the ST now weighs 3250lbs

Maybe government mandates on safety? What's mandatory now? ABS? Traction control? Side curtain airbags? TPS? Wasn't there something new on the docket for 2012 or so regarding not allowing bodies to fly out of a vehicle in a rollover?

Remember, we have to keep people who neglect to wear seat belts or check tire pressure from offing themselves. Darwin's rolling in his grave.

As an evo owner, the new X's are crazy expensive, as are the new STI's... you are looking at 40+. I think they are great cars and offer a driving experience that is unmatched by almost everything else on the road, but they are just getting too expensive. Thankfully, you can get a base WRX

Fixed.

Seriously though a base 2011 WRX can probably hang with an older gen STI in most things.

The 2011 WRX starts at $24k, that's probably around the same price or a shade less than Focus ST, and you get more HP and AWD

Base MSRP is now $25.500, but still a relative bargain for a 4.7s 0-60MPH AWD pocket rocket. Seems like not too long ago that kind of performance would have been considered near "supercar" level.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Maybe government mandates on safety? What's mandatory now? ABS? Traction control? Side curtain airbags? TPS? Wasn't there something new on the docket for 2012 or so regarding not allowing bodies to fly out of a vehicle in a rollover?

Yep, and guess what automakers are likely going to use?

 

[zerocool84]

at 550 hp i'd still rather have the mustang

I wouldn't. You'll be just another Mustang drivers. There's much less of the new Camaro's out there, plus they look better.

 

[Arkaign]

I wouldn't. You'll be just another Mustang drivers. There's much less of the new Camaro's out there, plus they look better.

Driving fun >> looks >> rarity, after the first couple of weeks at most.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

I wouldn't. You'll be just another Mustang drivers. There's much less of the new Camaro's out there, plus they look better.

I'll be just another a Mustang driver, just like exdeath...

 

[Zivic]

I wouldn't. You'll be just another Mustang drivers. There's much less of the new Camaro's out there, plus they look better.

I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the mustang, but the camaro is a pig. I am sorry, the camaro is not better looking

 

[Zivic]

Fixed.

Seriously though a base 2011 WRX can probably hang with an older gen STI in most things.



Base MSRP is now $25.500, but still a relative bargain for a 4.7s 0-60MPH AWD pocket rocket. Seems like not too long ago that kind of performance would have been considered near "supercar" level.

The subie is a decent car, but I think I would "have" to have the STI. I personally think the evo is more fun to drive, so I would likely stay with them. The subarus have an ungodly sound though that makes them very enticing

 

[Castiel]

When is subaru going to offer a 6 speed for the base WRX? 5 spds are so 90's.

I'd love to see a 6spd manual and 6spd auto option on the base WRX's and the STI keep the 6spd manual and add a 7 speed auto but it's subaru were talking about here so it'll never happen.

 

[Sinanju]

I'm not a huge fan of the looks of the mustang, but the camaro is a pig. I am sorry, the camaro is not better looking

i agree.


i have always loved camaro's but damn they made this thing look ugly compared to past gens.

 

[Castiel]

They butchered the camaro's looks IMO.

 

[evident]

I wouldn't. You'll be just another Mustang drivers. There's much less of the new Camaro's out there, plus they look better.

truthfully you could say the same about camaro drivers... theres just less of them out there because its only been out for a few years. i think the mustang looks better but for all intents and purpose they're pretty much the same in my book

 

[Zivic]

When is subaru going to offer a 6 speed for the base WRX? 5 spds are so 90's.

I'd love to see a 6spd manual and 6spd auto option on the base WRX's and the STI keep the 6spd manual and add a 7 speed auto but it's subaru were talking about here so it'll never happen.

gotta figure price point in on the 5spd in the WRX I wouldn't care for an auto in that car. I know they made a limited run of auto STI's... I personally don't see the point.

 

[PricklyPete]

An M3 starts at over $10k above that. It's an entirely different price point.

And the options can get unruly on the M3. I priced one out the other day and I had it above 80K in no time.

 

[exdeath]

I'll be just another a Mustang driver, just like exdeath...

LOL just another Mus....OH $#&?%#$ FAWK!!

Still prefer the Terminator styling over the the SN197, sad thing is I dont even like the New Edge styling much either except for the 03/04 Cobra.

Can't wait to run into one of these. Im anticipating a flux of butt hurt 4th gen owners salivating for revenge and hunting down 03 Cobras, and most are just going to reopen their old wounds :awe:

Ported M112 also makes 550 on a Cobra with a weak undersized factory blower still, and the 2.3 TVS on the ZL1 is almost as good as a KB/Whipple. As it is, the bigger Camaro will need 100+ hp more than a Terminator just to hold its ground.

 

[punjabiplaya]

And the options can get unruly on the M3. I priced one out the other day and I had it above 80K in no time.

try looking at dealer inventories. They're all specced out. Friend was looking to get one and no one had one that wasn't fully loaded with all sorts of stupid shit.