Chevy Volt Pricing and Value

[railer]

You have to have a tax liability after all of your deductions. The final total on your tax form has to have you owing the feds $X. Then you can get a rebate of that amount, up to $7,500.00

I guess I'm still a little foggy on this, so pardon my ignorance. I don't have my w2's in front of my, but I would surmise that I owed something around 25k total in federal tax last year.
Now the way I do my withholdings, I probably paid around 28k, so at the end of the year I got back around 3k.
I'm thinking that this federal tax credit would just come off of the amound that I owe the government, so i in my case if everything stayed exactly the same it would be 25k (owed)-7.5k (credit) = 17.5k (adjusted owed). So if I didn't change my withholding (and I wouldn't need to) I would have 28k (actual paid) - 17.5k (adjusted owed) = 10.5 refunded to me at end of year.
If that's completely wrong let me know.

 

[NutBucket]

I believe that is correct.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I guess I'm still a little foggy on this, so pardon my ignorance. I don't have my w2's in front of my, but I would surmise that I owed something around 25k total in federal tax last year.
Now the way I do my withholdings, I probably paid around 28k, so at the end of the year I got back around 3k.
I'm thinking that this federal tax credit would just come off of the amound that I owe the government, so i in my case if everything stayed exactly the same it would be 25k (owed)-7.5k (credit) = 17.5k (adjusted owed). So if I didn't change my withholding (and I wouldn't need to) I would have 28k (actual paid) - 17.5k (adjusted owed) = 10.5 refunded to me at end of year.
If that's completely wrong let me know.

Your foggy math does work

 

[SearchMaster]

Your foggy math does work

That's how I thought it worked too but that doesn't seem to be what LTC8K6 is saying.

 

[LTC8K6]

Here's an interpretation:

http://www.mychevroletvolt.com/chevy-volt-federal-tax-credit-form-8936

Q2: If I buy a Volt today (5/4/2012), when do I get the credit back?

A2: You claim the tax credit on your 2012 Federal Taxes. So you won’t see the money until you get your refund in 2013 after you’ve filed your taxes.



Q3: I make $x dollars per year, have y kids, and $z mortgage, can I claim the full credit?

A3: This is one that you really need to calculate out. Be very careful with this as you may not get the full $7500 depending on your circumstance. The tax credit is non-refundable and does not carry over. Meaning you must claim it in one tax year, and you can’t carry over any benefit into future years. IN General – if you have $7500 in tax liabilities after all your deductions, you can claim the full credit. Someone making about $56,000 a year with only a standard deduction (no kids, mortgage etc) will generally be able to claim the full credit. However, if you have significant deductions from kids / house, etc – you might run into trouble. On way of doing a quick check is to see how much you owed the IRS in taxes last year (assuming this year your tax circumstances didn’t change materially). This is not the amount you paid or got refunded, but the total tax owed. (This is on Line 44 last year of your 1040)

If you hit AMT, sorry I can’t help you. I don’t know nearly enough about that. I’ll let you know when I hit AMT

 

[LTC8K6]

And more:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?2321-How-will-the-7-500-tax-credit-work

Wherein both versions are given...

 

[LTC8K6]

And one more:

http://www.plugincars.com/much-need...-credit-reforms-finally-announced-106759.html

 

[vi edit]

I wish I hadn't gone looking. IL has a $4000 credit on top of federal ones.

:hmm:

 

[LTC8K6]

I wish I hadn't gone looking. IL has a $4000 credit on top of federal ones.

:hmm:

Yeah, they are really pushing to get Volts to move.

They have a 140 day supply of them, it seems.

There's also the fact that you keep the credit if you sell the car...so there's likely a bit of flipping going on. Probably a lot of used Volts out there, but I haven't checked.

 

[jagec]

Well if you are early enough in the year, can't you just have HR change your withholding to drive up what you would owe to ~6k-7k if your getting money back or something like that.

Your withholding has nothing to do with it. Even if you get a check back every year, you could still get the full $7500 credit IF your total tax bill was at least that.

The US is a pay-as-you-go system. Your withholding only affects how much you pay, not how much is actually due.

 

[phucheneh]

Sooo...cliff notes, anyone? How much does a Volt actually end up costing? As in, how much you finance, how much would you get back, and how much would your tax return change as a result?

Just saying '23k' sounds a little optimistic, but if you can at least get reasonably close to the mid-20's region, this car goes from worthless to making a hell of a lot more sense.

Also, now that some of them have been on the road for a bit, what's the consensus? Are people getting the claimed EV range, charge times, and whatnot?

I'm just curious. Unsurprisingly, I had a lot of hate for this car. But if it can get into Prius pricing while being less of a plastic go-kart (but still being as reliable), I'm all for acknowledging their worth. It just was NOT a 40k car; not by a long shot.

 

[LTC8K6]

Sooo...cliff notes, anyone? How much does a Volt actually end up costing? As in, how much you finance, how much would you get back, and how much would your tax return change as a result?

Just saying '23k' sounds a little optimistic, but if you can at least get reasonably close to the mid-20's region, this car goes from worthless to making a hell of a lot more sense.

Also, now that some of them have been on the road for a bit, what's the consensus? Are people getting the claimed EV range, charge times, and whatnot?

I'm just curious. Unsurprisingly, I had a lot of hate for this car. But if it can get into Prius pricing while being less of a plastic go-kart (but still being as reliable), I'm all for acknowledging their worth. It just was NOT a 40k car; not by a long shot.

Still makes little sense, imo. Cruze makes more sense. Or other similar cars.

 

[phucheneh]

Well, if you say that then we're just gonna fall into my typical debate of 'x' Chevrolet sucks and 'x' competitor makes something I find to be comparable but better executed.

The Volt is kind of on its own. As long as the interior is decent (call it 'Malibu-grade' or better) and the car drives as least as well as a Corolla (seems like a backhanded compliment, but I find Corolla >>>> Prius), it seems like it could be pretty worthwhile. Can I get a car I would enjoy a lot more for mid-20's or less? Well, yeah. But I'd also hate buying the fuel for it.

 

[Mermaidman]

Is it me, or are you guys making the $7,500 tax credit question way too complicated?

Look at the "Tax" line on your Form 1040. (It's line #44 on the 2012 return.) If it is more than $7,500, then you get the entire Chevy Volt credit. (Of course, this is assuming that you don't have OTHER credits as well.)

Line 44=Tax
Lines 46-53=Credits
Line 55=(Tax - credits)=What you owe.

Lines 56-60=Other taxes, but I'm ignoring those in this example.

As Jagec said, your withholding has nothing to do with this. (Disclaimer - I'm not a CPA. Heck, I don't even work for H&R Block. I pay people to prepare my returns.)

 

[vi edit]

Still makes little sense, imo. Cruze makes more sense. Or other similar cars.

It'd take a $25,000 (heavily incentivized) Volt about 5 years to make up the $5,000 savings of going with a $20,000 Cruze Eco.

At 12,000 miles a year a Cruze would cost about $1300 a year in fuel for my typical commute. (Assuming 38MPG average)

A volt would use about $300 in electricity and for my typical commute & needs essentially no gas (30 mile round trip for most of my driving).

It's got less operating costs than a hybrid and lacks the range issues of a stand alone plug in. Plus by most accounts it's a nice car to drive. It's intriguing at that 25k price point.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, if you say that then we're just gonna fall into my typical debate of 'x' Chevrolet sucks and 'x' competitor makes something I find to be comparable but better executed.

The Volt is kind of on its own. As long as the interior is decent (call it 'Malibu-grade' or better) and the car drives as least as well as a Corolla (seems like a backhanded compliment, but I find Corolla >>>> Prius), it seems like it could be pretty worthwhile. Can I get a car I would enjoy a lot more for mid-20's or less? Well, yeah. But I'd also hate buying the fuel for it.

The fuel for a Cruze or similar isn't going to be that much. At 15K miles a year it's about $150 a month.

I think you are still looking at at least 5 years to get to the break even point.

The less you drive per year, the longer to get to the break even point.

If you just want a Volt, and it makes economic sense for you, then go for it. They are trying to get rid of them, so now seems to be the time.

 

[cbrsurfr]

The problem with these credits (Federal, IL, etc..) is it's after the purchase, not during - so you still have to finance the full amount. So if the car is $39,145 -$3000 for financing / 48 months = $753/month not including TTL and assuming $0 down. Then you have to wait till next years taxes for the $7500 and IL processes twice a year so you could be waiting for awhile with that (assuming broke ass IL can even pay).

If you could get the credits applied at the time of purchase that would make these way more attractive.

 

[vi edit]

If you could get the credits applied at the time of purchase that would make these way more attractive.

Absolutely agree there!

 

[NutBucket]

At 12,000 miles a year a Cruze would cost about $1300 a year in fuel for my typical commute. (Assuming 38MPG average)

I doubt you'd average 38 in a Cruze unless your commuting is 80% highway without much traffic.

 

[LTC8K6]

I doubt you'd average 38 in a Cruze unless your commuting is 80% highway without much traffic.

I just used the EPA numbers on fuel costs per year. I don't think I went with the ECO, since it's more expensive.

The EPA lists $950 for a Volt.

 

[Topweasel]

It'd take a $25,000 (heavily incentivized) Volt about 5 years to make up the $5,000 savings of going with a $20,000 Cruze Eco.

At 12,000 miles a year a Cruze would cost about $1300 a year in fuel for my typical commute. (Assuming 38MPG average)

A volt would use about $300 in electricity and for my typical commute & needs essentially no gas (30 mile round trip for most of my driving).

It's got less operating costs than a hybrid and lacks the range issues of a stand alone plug in. Plus by most accounts it's a nice car to drive. It's intriguing at that 25k price point.

All sorts of thing play into this as well. A Cruze eco sucks to drive. A Volt has great electric numbers. On top of sucking to get EPA on the Cruze you have to have to generally drive very carefully and gingerly, otherwise the numbers drop like a rock. A Volt on electric is going to get roughly the same mileage no matter how hard you accelerate you generally won't kill the battery that much quicker by going faster.

 

[NutBucket]

Is a Cruze Eco that much worse than any other econobox in the segment? Probably better than a Prius.

 

[LTC8K6]

A Volt on electric is going to get roughly the same mileage no matter how hard you accelerate you generally won't kill the battery that much quicker by going faster.

What?

GM really has something there...

 

[LTC8K6]

A Volt on electric is going to get roughly the same mileage no matter how hard you accelerate you generally won't kill the battery that much quicker by going faster.

What?

GM really has something there...

If you accelerate hard and drive fast you will discharge the battery faster and shortly be driving a Cruze with a 400 pound dead weight aboard...although the battery isn't really dead, of course.

It will switch to gasoline faster.

 

[Topweasel]

What?

GM really has something there...

If you accelerate hard and drive fast you will discharge the battery faster and shortly be driving a Cruze with a 400 pound dead weight aboard...although the battery isn't really dead, of course.

It will switch to gasoline faster.

Electric engines generate their full torque values at right way. So Accelerating to 60 flat footed vs. Granny style is going to have little affect on electricity values at least not at the rate of a gas engine. An Electric engine is going to see a much smaller increase in power usage going 80 MPH than a gas engine.

In the end the differences between an Econo box and something like the Volt are not just in size and general creature comforts an ICE only eco box like the Cruze Eco still require you to behave and drive certain ways and will see major drops in economy when not.

A Volt driven like someone would drive their normal midsize V6 to work and back in that 40 mile range is still going to see nearly the values for economy that the EPA have given it. True then once you get down to the ICE you basically have a heavier cruze. But that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the value of the car as a daily driver to someone that fits within its all electric range.