Chile Dictator dead

Xylitol

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2005
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76
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/12/10/pinochet/

SANTIAGO, Chile (CNN) -- Augusto Pinochet, who died Sunday, was one of Latin America's most controversial and notorious former military dictators.

The 91-year-old former strongman, who rose to power following a U.S.-backed coup, was accused of torturing and killing thousands of people during his 1973-1990 regime.

He was under house arrest in the capital last Sunday when he suffered a heart attack; his wife, Lucia Hiriart, and a number of his children took him to Santiago Military Hospital.

Pinochet, who had been in frail health for years, underwent angioplasty to boost blood flow to his heart. But soon after, his lungs began to fill with fluid, a condition called pulmonary edema, and a priest gave him the last rites.

At 1:30 p.m. Sunday (11:30 a.m. ET), Pinochet suffered heart failure and was taken in critical condition to the hospital's coronary care unit, Dr. Juan Ignacio Vergara told reporters.

Attempts to resuscitate him proved futile, and he was declared dead at 2:15 p.m., surrounded by family members.

"The founder of modern Chile has died," said Ivan Moreira, who told a reporter that he was with Pinochet shortly before he died. (Watch the history of Pinochet's rule Video)

A military funeral is scheduled for Tuesday, though it will not be a state funeral nor will there be any days of mourning, a military spokesman said. His remains will be cremated after a memorial service, to be held at 11 a.m. Tuesday, the spokesman added.

Pinochet's body will be transferred Monday to the Chilean military academy, and flags outside government and military buildings will be lowered to half staff, he said.

The government has approved four military ceremonies, he said.

Outside the military hospital, where a Chilean flag was lowered to half staff, several thousand pro-Pinochet demonstrators gathered to mourn his death, chanting "Long live Pinochet!" and singing the national anthem. At one point, several thousand demonstrators tossed plastic bottles of water at journalists, whom they accused of criticizing Pinochet unfairly.

In the Plaza Italia, about 6,000 anti-Pinochet demonstrators gathered in celebration of his death, waving Chilean flags, dancing, opening bottles of champagne and tossing confetti into the air.
Demonstrators clash

Police detained dozens of people, and dispersed demonstrators who began to throw objects and breached a perimeter surrounding the presidential palace by spraying them with water cannon and then tear gas, TV Chile reported.

"We require force only to establish order," Gen. Jorge Acuna, director of order and security at el Palacio de La Moneda, the presidential palace.

Similar violence between riot-clad police and demonstrators occurred in Valparaiso, the birthplace of Pinochet.

More than 5,000 people joined demonstrations in 10 regions throughout the country, said Felipe Harboe, sub secretary of the Ministry of the Interior, who called on parents to keep their teenagers home Sunday night.

"We don't want to see people affected in the present by deeds of the past," he told reporters.

"I call on the citizens to manifest in peace and tranquility."

Still, as night fell, plastic barrels intended to direct traffic out of certain areas were set afire in the Plaza de la Ciudadania -- near the presidential palace.

TV Chile reported that a memorial service is to be held Tuesday at 11 a.m. at the military school, with attendance limited to family and close friends.

Pinochet had been confined to his house in connection with charges of murdering two opponents in 1973. Chilean authorities had released him from house arrest a day after he was hospitalized.

Pinochet, who celebrated his 91st birthday on November 25, had a history of diabetes and had suffered several minor strokes since the late 1990s.

A pacemaker was implanted in his chest in 2005, after he suffered a stroke.

Chile's Supreme Court had lifted his immunity from charges of misusing public funds and cleared the way for murder charges stemming from alleged human rights abuses.

But Pinochet was deemed medically unfit to stand trial.

And even if he had been tried and found guilty, he was too old under Chilean law to serve time in prison and would have remained under house arrest.

Nevertheless, his critics accused him of timing his illnesses to coincide with court rulings.
Dictatorship marked by purges of leftists

Pinochet swept to power on September 11, 1973, in a bloody U.S.-backed military coup that overthrew Chile's democratically elected Marxist President Salvador Allende. He was hailed by some as the man who rescued Chile from chaos and the clutches of Marxism.

"Chile was on the way to self-destruction," Pinochet once said. "Chile's armed forces were obliged to put their patriotism before any other consideration."

One of the considerations he put aside was human rights. His 17-year dictatorship was marked by purges of leftists in which thousands of people were tortured, died or disappeared. Tens of thousands more fled the South American nation.

"A hero? Pinochet? A hero of what? Of death?" asked Carmen Vivanco, who lost five members of her family after the coup and is a member of the Missing Persons Association.

In Washington, the White House said Chile's rule "represented one of most difficult periods in that nation's history."

"Our thoughts today are with the victims of his reign and their families," White House spokesman Tony Fratto said. "We commend the people of Chile for building a society based on freedom, the rule of law, and respect for human rights."

Although Pinochet is credited with laying the groundwork for Chile's modern market economy, he was criticized internationally for his disdain for human rights.

Years ago, in an interview with CNN en Espanol, Pinochet showed little regard for the concept. "Human rights?" he asked rhetorically. "That's an invention of the Marxists."

Amid growing popular pressure, Pinochet lost a 1988 referendum in which Chileans were allowed to vote for a return to democratic rule. A decade later, he retired as commander-in-chief of the army to become, under the terms of the constitution he wrote, a "senator for life" with immunity from prosecution.

In October 1998, Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzon issued an arrest warrant for Pinochet, along with an order freezing his assets, while he was visiting London for an operation. He was placed under house arrest, pending possible extradition to Spain. Pinochet was charged with genocide, terrorism and torture in the deaths and disappearance of thousands of people, including some Spaniards, during his regime.

The judge said he froze Pinochet's assets as a guarantee that victims would receive indemnity payments if Pinochet were ever convicted.

But with his health failing, Pinochet eventually was allowed to return to Chile, only to see his immunity lifted and face charges of murder, torture and tax fraud.

In 2004, a report by the U.S. Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations said Pinochet's accounts at Riggs Bank between 1994 and 2002 contained $4 million to $8 million.

That investigation led to charges against the bank, which paid a $16 million fine and admitted it failed to report suspicious transactions of more than $10 million by Pinochet.

Chilean investigators later found that Pinochet had allegedly stashed nearly $27 million in other overseas bank accounts, which led to charges against the former dictator and his family, accused of helping hide some of the money.

In August 2005, a Chilean court indicted Pinochet's wife of more than 65 years, Lucia Hiriart, on charges of being an accomplice to her husband on tax evasion.

Three months later -- just days before his 90th birthday -- Pinochet was indicted on tax fraud and passport forgery in connection with the case.

That same month, he was also indicted by the Chilean court on human rights charges related to the kidnapping and disappearance of three dissidents who were arrested by Pinochet's security services in late 1974.

Their bodies turned up in Argentina, along with 116 others, in what was called Operation Colombo, an attempt by Chile's secret police to cover up the killings of leftist opponents.

Herman Felipe Errazuriz, Chile's ambassador to the United States during Pinochet's rule, said of the dictator, "He restored democracy in the country and he changed the social and economic system in the country. That's his legacy."

But Pinochet was a deeply divisive force in Chilean society, which was never able to heal the wounds of its traumatic past during his lifetime.

Journalist Lucia Newman contributed to this report.

I feel that its about time that he's dead - although I am sad that he was charged with stuff when he came back to Chili given immunity. The US shouldnt have been involved with his coming to power though.

Trying to stay alive wtih all these surgeries but died in the end.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.
 

beyoku

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2003
1,568
1
71
im glad he is dead. Hmm. thats the second time i have said that in 2 weeks.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: jrenz

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

I guess the proof you could easily post just wan't posted for some good reason. What was that good reason?

Which conspiracy are you asking about? You will need to read a book or two, probably, which is probably a no-go for you. But I can lead you to some water to not drink.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jrenz

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

I guess the proof you could easily post just wan't posted for some good reason. What was that good reason?

Which conspiracy are you asking about? You will need to read a book or two, probably, which is probably a no-go for you. But I can lead you to some water to not drink.

There you go... really supported your claims there.

Maybe you should bother reading a book now and then, and instead of distorting the events you could try looking at them objectively... but I guess that's above your "It's all America's fault" attitude... you might have to face the truth, and we couldn't have that now could we?

Maybe when you're older
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Well jrenz, you are well to the high side of the 'scumbag poster' scale of the typical right-wing sleazeball who smears, distorts, and lies.

I'm virtually certain I read more useful books than you do, and I'm likely older than you are, for whatever that's worth, and you weasel in another lie in your little attack - my view is accurate, which includes the good and the bad; you are the distorter who denies the wrongdoing by your own nation, because you are too weak for the truth.

There's a rock with your name on it waiitnng for you.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

Ignore the jrenz troll. He knows he has no basis for his idiotic spewings. He's just trying to distract and divert.

But, for the sentient beings reading this thread...

1973: 'The wounds still hurt us'
This year is the 30th anniversary of the military coup in Chile which led to the death of President Salvador Allende.

Hundreds - if not thousands - of civilians also died in the revolt instigated by leaders of the country's armed forces and backed by the CIA.

In Chile, a Day That Lived in Infamy Already
The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks occurred exactly 28 years after Gen. Augusto Pinochet toppled the elected Chilean government of President Salvador Allende, an event I watched in Santiago, the Chilean capital. The bloody U.S.-backed coup on September 11, 1973, marked the advent of a regime that systematically employed terror at home and abroad to remain in power for almost 17 years.

Before the attack on the Pentagon, the most sensational foreign-led terrorist action in the U.S. capital came at the hands of Pinochet operatives. On September 21, 1976, agents of the Chilean secret police agency, the National Intelligence Directorate (DINA), detonated a car bomb just blocks from the White House, killing a leading opponent of Pinochet?s, Orlando Letelier, and his assistant Ronni Moffitt. I met Letelier, who had served as Allende?s foreign minister, at the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, D.C. He was deeply committed to democracy and a humane world.

These assassinations were linked to the hemisphere?s first international terrorist network, known as Operation Condor. Begun in 1974 at the instigation of the Chilean secret police, the network consisted of the intelligence services of at least six South American countries. They collaborated in tracking, kidnapping and assassinating political opponents. Documents divulged by President Bill Clinton?s administration show that the CIA knew about these international terrorist activities and may have even abetted them.

The Chilean secret police, often with help of Condor partners, carried out a number of international terrorist operations. In 1974, a car bomb killed retired Gen. Carlos Pratts in Buenos Aires, where he had sought refuge after Pinochet replaced him as head of the military shortly before the coup. In 1975, DINA operatives attacked and maimed Chilean Christian Democratic politician Bernardo Leighton and his wife in Rome.

Papers found in Paraguayan archives in the 1990s reveal that Operation Condor also played a role in the assassination of a Brazilian general, two Uruguayan parliamentarians and scores of lesser-known political activists. After the murders of Letelier and Moffitt, the CIA appears to have distanced itself from Condor. But the network continued to operate throughout Latin America until at least the early 1980s. Chilean and Argentine military units assisted Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza and helped set up death squads in El Salvador. Argentine units also aided and supervised Honduran military death squads that began operating in the early 1980s with CIA collaboration.

The Pinochet File: A Declassified Dossier on Atrocity and Accountability (A National Security Archive Book)
Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
For years, the United States government maintained top-secret archives detailing its policy in Chile and its role in aiding and securing General Pinochet's rise to dictatorial power in the early 1970s. In this examination of the thousands of records recently declassified by the CIA, White House, NSC, Pentagon and FBI, Kornbluh offers new revelations about America's development of a policy dedicated to overthrowing Chile's existing democratic government and to replacing it with a military leader reviled for his complete disregard for human rights. Throughout the book, Kornbluh-a director of the National Security Archive, a nonprofit research library-buttresses his assertions with excerpts from the relevant documents, and attempts to shed light on some of the outstanding questions of the period that still beg for answers, including what motivated President Nixon and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to authorize the bloody campaign and how involved the US government actually was in the September 1973 coup itself.

A little more detail


And we can't forget where the US did its training of death squads employed in Latin America:

School of the Americas
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*

I don't believe the US has ever admitted to it. However, it is pretty well known that we did have an involvement in it.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
While it was probably best for Chile's economy that Allende wasn't president, a coup followed by a horrible dictatorship was not the way to go about fixing the economy.

That coup is one of the reasons why we shouldn't be dicking around in other country's affairs. If they want to fvck up their economy, let them.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
If he hadn't taken over, I wouldn't have met some of my best friends. They were political refuges from Chile.
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,777
18
81
Pinochet was a brutal dictator, the Chilean army is base in the old German-Austria school. United States interest in the cooper (Chile #1 producer)from the mines of Chile lead Nixon to form the coup against Allende a friend of Castro. Hundred of the dead from dead squads. In the 80's Chile recovered and stated it one of the best economy in Latin America.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
If America had interest in copper, and couldn't get it because Allende nationalized the copper industry, then we didn't have much luck with Pinochet either, because that idea was so successful not even he changed it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
Oh really? Care to link those documents? The only thing the US has admitted to is that they were aware of the coup plot and they did not intervene. Text
Given that Allende was elected under VERY questionable circumstances (he received a mere 36% of the vote in a 3-way race), and that his presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests, and public unrest directly against his increasingly unpopular administration, it really came as no surprise to anyone that he was eventually overthrown.

Regardless, Pinochet was just as bad if not worse. They traded a marxist for a fascist. Burn in hell.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*

I don't believe the US has ever admitted to it. However, it is pretty well known that we did have an involvement in it.

Wrongo.

NSA archives
Info mentioning Clinton and Powell admissions

There are also numerous scholarly articles, but for most of them you'll need online database access. If you have that let me know and I can forward some.

The point isn't even that the US participated in this one coup. There are volumes of documents and admissions dating back 200 years about the US involvement in other nations...especially in pursuing coup's against those who would stand opposed to US economic interests oversees. Think Guatamala, Panama, Iran, Italy, Greece, etc ad nauseum. This IS what the US does. Fact. Period.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*

I don't believe the US has ever admitted to it. However, it is pretty well known that we did have an involvement in it.

Wrongo.

NSA archives
Info mentioning Clinton and Powell admissions

There are also numerous scholarly articles, but for most of them you'll need online database access. If you have that let me know and I can forward some.

The point isn't even that the US participated in this one coup. There are volumes of documents and admissions dating back 200 years about the US involvement in other nations...especially in pursuing coup's against those who would stand opposed to US economic interests oversees. Think Guatamala, Panama, Iran, Italy, Greece, etc ad nauseum. This IS what the US does. Fact. Period.

Take off the tinfoil beanie, PoW. "Ties to" and "knowledge of" is not the same as "involvement." See my CIA.gov link above.

A couple things you're missing too.
- Allende's presidency was extremely unpopular in his own country, and was marked by constant unrest.
- Allende intentionally defaulted on Chile's international debt, and the US is the UN's (IMF's) leg-breaking debt-collector. You need to widen your scope and see the bigger picture, rather than just US bashing.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Craig234
Let's take the time to review how he came to power.

Chile had democracy. They elected a man who would do well at representing the people, Salvador Allende. Nixon wanted Allende taken out before he took office, as shown by secret oval office tapes.

In part, Nixon, a former Pepsico lawyer during his period out of office, had a call from Pepsico that they wanted something done about Allende. The first attempt by the US to take out Allende resulted in the head of the Army, who was approached to lead the coup but was loyal to the nation's constitution and democacy, and who refused, being murdered.

The later attempt did overthrow Allende and he was killed. The US put in charge the brutal Pinochet.

How can any American look at the events and reconcile them with our stated principles? Only with lies and ignorance about the conditions in Chile, which show that Allende was good for the nation, ealing with extreme concentrations of wealth, much less the simple issue of their having a legitimate democracy.

We Americans have yet to take real responsibility for our government's actions there, and we should renounce them, much as Kruschev renounced Stalin's actions.

Now is a fine time for us to spread the truth about the history there.

We could spread the truth, or we could have people like you make up all sorts of conspiracy claims which anybody who might have studied the history of the matter could easily dispute.

How about you give us some sort of proof of this supposed plot before you go on another tinfoil rant?

WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*

I don't believe the US has ever admitted to it. However, it is pretty well known that we did have an involvement in it.

Wrongo.

NSA archives
Info mentioning Clinton and Powell admissions

There are also numerous scholarly articles, but for most of them you'll need online database access. If you have that let me know and I can forward some.

The point isn't even that the US participated in this one coup. There are volumes of documents and admissions dating back 200 years about the US involvement in other nations...especially in pursuing coup's against those who would stand opposed to US economic interests oversees. Think Guatamala, Panama, Iran, Italy, Greece, etc ad nauseum. This IS what the US does. Fact. Period.

Take off the tinfoil beanie, PoW. "Ties to" and "knowledge of" is not the same as "involvement." See my CIA.gov link above.

A couple things you're missing too.
- Allende's presidency was extremely unpopular in his own country, and was marked by constant unrest.
- Allende intentionally defaulted on Chile's international debt, and the US is the UN's (IMF's) leg-breaking debt-collector. You need to widen your scope and see the bigger picture, rather than just US bashing.
So encouraging the coup and supporting Pinochet does not link us to it? You think our hands were clean in the whole situation? Remember who was President at the time.

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So encouraging the coup and supporting Pinochet does not link us to it? You think our hands were clean in the whole situation? Remember who was President at the time.
I didn't say that. Even "link" is still not the same as "involvement." Nor was I saying our hands were clean. They probably weren't. Which goes back to those 2 points I made: (1) Allende was VERY unpopular with his people, and (2) Allende pissed off the UN's money machine. The US wasn't the only country that wanted him out.
And yeah, Nixon was President. But even he was just a puppet, just like every President we've had since JFK.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
Oh really? Care to link those documents? The only thing the US has admitted to is that they were aware of the coup plot and they did not intervene. https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/#6">Text</a>
Given that Allende was elected under VERY questionable circumstances (he received a mere 36% of the vote in a 3-way race), and that his presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests, and public unrest directly against his increasingly unpopular administration, it really came as no surprise to anyone that he was eventually overthrown.

Regardless, Pinochet was just as bad if not worse. They traded a marxist for a fascist. Burn in hell.

Of course Allende's presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests and public unrest, they were being orchestrated and paid for by the CIA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._intervention_in_Chile
According to the 1975 Church Commission Report, covert United States involvement in Chile in the decade between 1963 and 1973 was extensive and continuous. The Central Intelligence Agency covertly spent three million dollars in an effort to influence the outcome of the 1964 Chilean presidential elections [2], and eight million dollars in the three years between 1970 and the military coup in September 1973, with over three million in fiscal year 1972 alone. Covert American activity was present in almost every major election in Chile in the decade between 1963 and 1973, but its actual effect on electoral outcomes is not altogether clear.

U.S. officials ordered measures up to and including support for a potential coup to prevent Allende from taking office, although there are conflicting views as to whether the U.S. later pulled back from this position. That the U.S. planned a potential coup in Chile is evident in a secret cable from Thomas Karamessines, the CIA Deputy Director of Plans, to the Santiago CIA station, dated October 16, 1970, after the election but before Allende's inauguration. "It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup ... it is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG [United States Government] and American hand be well hidden" [Karamessines, 1970].



 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
Oh really? Care to link those documents? The only thing the US has admitted to is that they were aware of the coup plot and they did not intervene. https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/#6">Text</a>
Given that Allende was elected under VERY questionable circumstances (he received a mere 36% of the vote in a 3-way race), and that his presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests, and public unrest directly against his increasingly unpopular administration, it really came as no surprise to anyone that he was eventually overthrown.

Regardless, Pinochet was just as bad if not worse. They traded a marxist for a fascist. Burn in hell.

Of course Allende's presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests and public unrest, they were being orchestrated and paid for by the CIA.
OMG quick! fix your tinfoil beanie!

:roll:

You don't think those strikes and unrest could have had anything to do with the facts that (1) only 36% of the voters voting for Allende in a highly controversial race, (2) the opposition party controlled the legislature, and (3) the worker unions hated Allende's nationalization policies.

You commies have major doublethink issues. You claim you're not communist/socialist, but you rush to defend every communist/socialist out there. Yeah, Pinochet was a fascist and (if there is one) I hope he's burning in hell right now. But that doesn't mean I have to like Allende too.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
Oh really? Care to link those documents? The only thing the US has admitted to is that they were aware of the coup plot and they did not intervene. https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/#6">Text</a>
Given that Allende was elected under VERY questionable circumstances (he received a mere 36% of the vote in a 3-way race), and that his presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests, and public unrest directly against his increasingly unpopular administration, it really came as no surprise to anyone that he was eventually overthrown.

Regardless, Pinochet was just as bad if not worse. They traded a marxist for a fascist. Burn in hell.

Of course Allende's presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests and public unrest, they were being orchestrated and paid for by the CIA.
OMG quick! fix your tinfoil beanie!

:roll:

You don't think those strikes and unrest could have had anything to do with the facts that (1) only 36% of the voters voting for Allende in a highly controversial race, (2) the opposition party controlled the legislature, and (3) the worker unions hated Allende's nationalization policies.

You commies have major doublethink issues. You claim you're not communist/socialist, but you rush to defend every communist/socialist out there. Yeah, Pinochet was a fascist and (if there is one) I hope he's burning in hell right now. But that doesn't mean I have to like Allende too.

No, but you are quick to deny that we had a hand in the coup or subsequent torture/murder/disappearances. Why are you such a fascist sympathizer?
Your problem Vic, is that you don't like anybody.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
WTF??? Ummm dude, the US has admitted to its extensive involvement in the coup. Years ago. Documents provided to the people and all. It's what we do as a country. It's common knowledge. *boggle*
Oh really? Care to link those documents? The only thing the US has admitted to is that they were aware of the coup plot and they did not intervene. https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/#6">Text</a>
Given that Allende was elected under VERY questionable circumstances (he received a mere 36% of the vote in a 3-way race), and that his presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests, and public unrest directly against his increasingly unpopular administration, it really came as no surprise to anyone that he was eventually overthrown.

Regardless, Pinochet was just as bad if not worse. They traded a marxist for a fascist. Burn in hell.

Of course Allende's presidency was marked by constant strikes, protests and public unrest, they were being orchestrated and paid for by the CIA.
OMG quick! fix your tinfoil beanie!

:roll:

You don't think those strikes and unrest could have had anything to do with the facts that (1) only 36% of the voters voting for Allende in a highly controversial race, (2) the opposition party controlled the legislature, and (3) the worker unions hated Allende's nationalization policies.

You commies have major doublethink issues. You claim you're not communist/socialist, but you rush to defend every communist/socialist out there. Yeah, Pinochet was a fascist and (if there is one) I hope he's burning in hell right now. But that doesn't mean I have to like Allende too.

No, but you are quick to deny that we had a hand in the coup or subsequent torture/murder/disappearances. Why are you such a fascist sympathizer?
Your problem Vic, is that you don't like anybody.

Not at all. The issue is that you commie fanbois can't understand that no one likes you. So, of course, Allende's overthrow wasn't by its people, it just had to have had outside involvement. Forget the fact that marxist socialism has been a complete disaster for the people in every country where it has been tried, leading to hundreds of millions of deaths. Given that, why are you such a commie sympathizer?
 
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