China poised to blow by US in science, engineering and more....

[shady28]

China's economy is kind of like European monarchies were. Private property is tolerated and commerce is encouraged, to the extent that it serves the "greater good, " but in truth everything belongs to the state.

I feel I have to point this out.

That is no different from the USA, or almost any 1st world country. All of these systems are modern day implementations of economic hierarchies that existed under feudalism.

You pay a tax to "own" property. If you fail to pay your tax, you will be removed from "your" property. You do not have the right to do what you wish on "your' property (even if you live in the boonies). For example, few "landowners" have mineral rights to their land.

And if the gov't decides they need to do something for the "greater good" using your property, you will find that your land is not yours no matter where you live.

See eminent domain.

The only thing that will save you is the same thing that would save you in China - public outrage. Most of the time that doesn't happen.

 

[Victorian Gray]

China is more capitalist than is the United States.

Hell, China's actually more capitalist than I would wish for the United States.

Last I checked roughly 40 of the economy is still outright owned or controlled by the Chinese govt./communist party and a good chunk of what remains was hived off to 'private' individuals and families who are friends and relatives of the party leaders. The Chinese govt. still puts out '5 year plans' for the economy. Apparently the country is in it's 12th 5 year plan.

While elements of capitalism have been mixed in, the overall economy is certainly not capitalist.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Sounds like a plan.

What's the plan?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Sorry, but ya it is.

<sigh> No, it's not. At best you can describe it as a mixed economy.

 

[Zaap]

What's the plan?

Keep performing at a sub-mediocre level while waiting for some political hack asshole to wave his magic wand and grant us our birthright to forever hold the top slot at whatever we want. Math and science? We don't need to actually turn out the top grads at that! We should just be forever granted number one status at that.

It's such a great plan, isn't it?

Oh that's right. The right magical political hack asshole with the right party letter next to his name with the right magic wand hasn't come along to grant it all to us yet.

So I guess the plan is actually keep wishing for that magician and in the meantime (as always) keep whining about all those dirty foreigners who dare to vie for those top slots that always must be ours.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Keep performing at a sub-mediocre level while waiting for some political hack asshole to wave his magic wand and grant us our birthright to forever hold the top slot at whatever we want. Math and science? We don't need to actually turn out the top grads at that! We should just be forever granted number one status at that.

It's such a great plan, isn't it?

Oh that's right. The right magical political hack asshole with the right party letter next to his name with the right magic wand hasn't come along to grant it all to us yet.

So I guess the plan is actually keep wishing for that magician and in the meantime (as always) keep whining about all those dirty foreigners who dare to vie for those top slots that always must be ours.

You could become a teacher

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I like how the first two charts aren't per capita, and how the last one doesn't talk about absolute earnings but relative, as if the bloatfest that is an American doctor's annual income is somehow a fair comparison when looking at Chinese doctors. Last I checked, our colleges still lead the world, and even if we really are going to be "overtaken", what does it matter and what are we to do about it? Do we need to implement knowledge tariffs? Do we need to ensure that our foreign exchange student deficit is eliminated? If there's a problem, it's a local one in the form of students unwilling to apply themselves and get a degree in something more rigorous than womyn's studies.

EDIT: Well, to be fair of course there's an issue with the average public school education that kids here receive as well, as well as lazy parents not pushing them to work at it.

 

[irishScott]

Put differently: "In a decade or two China might be scientifically competitive for the first time since the Renaissance, if they overcome significant challenges in that time and nothing goes wrong."

I'm not all that scared, frankly. We came out of WWII virtually untouched, everyone else was devastated and it took some nations longer to rebuild than others. Our being alone at the top wasn't going to last forever.

I'll believe the forthcoming Chinese "scientific supremacy" when they actually do something of scientific note with these vast scientific resources they purportedly have. Meaning something with broad effects that the West hasn't figured out yet.

 

[alcoholbob]

China ain't capitalist.

If China ain't capitalist, what does that make the United States?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Ok, I'm convinced now.

The number one priority of first world countries _must_ be to keep third world countries in the third world. God knows we can't compete with them.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If China ain't capitalist, what does that make the United States?

I'd argue that it's mainly a free enterprise, market economy. A pretty screwed up one in many respects but still. Certainly it's far less a 'mixed economy' than most countries in the world.

 

[Pneumothorax]

You could become a teacher

He'd be wasting his time. US needs a huge cultural shift and that's not happening. What's making it worse is that the overwhelming majority of immigrants that we're 'allowing' (illegals) to stay culturally don't give a shit about education. We should be importing Africans (yes, legal immigrant Africans are very motivated and educated), Euros, and Asians.

 

[MongGrel]

As opposed to the dumb people around here who think it's their birthright to lead the world at things... despite NOT leading the world at things.

If we want to lead the world in science, there's only one way to do it. Now, it's real complicated for the dumbshits, but here it is:

LEAD THE WORLD AT SCIENCE.

That's it.

Dumbshits seem to believe it's all about electing some political tyrant who will force everyone to recognize spoiled dumbshits' birthright at leading the world.

And lots of whining about others surpassing us.

And lots of dumb bullshit twisting what Ross Perot once said into "see? We were guaranteed our birthright carved in stone so long as everyone else did thus and such..."

Oh yeah, and gleefully wallowing in the years (decades?) long National Pity Party - everyone everywhere lay down and pity us because we're not getting out guaranteed birthright granted to us...

Pretty much *EVERYTHING* but being anywhere close to having the best science scores worldwide... You know, actually LEADING THE WORLD AT SCIENCE.

so by all means... Let's don't do anything stupid and irrational like buckling down, studying, becoming the best in the world at whatever without waiting for around for some political hack asshole to grant it to us... Let's do the logical thing... Keep whining, keep demanding our guaranteed automatic birthright at the top of the heap no matter what, keep quoting St. Perot and his sacred guarantee, keep expecting the rest of the world and all of global industry to lay down and go along with it.

Yep. The old outdated way of Americans was when the going got tough, the tough got going.

Now it's when the going gets tough, whine, stomp feet, quote His Magesty Perot, threaten to hold our collective breaths until the whole world stops spinning for us and grants us all our automagic birthright to be forever #1.

Sounds like a plan.

Just reading that through your who post just seems a bit fragmented and going three directions at once IMHO.

Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[MongGrel]

See my "Reeling them in" post above, lol. :biggrin:

Yeah I kinda caught that, nice touch there

 

[MongGrel]

Last I checked roughly 40 of the economy is still outright owned or controlled by the Chinese govt./communist party and a good chunk of what remains was hived off to 'private' individuals and families who are friends and relatives of the party leaders. The Chinese govt. still puts out '5 year plans' for the economy. Apparently the country is in it's 12th 5 year plan.

While elements of capitalism have been mixed in, the overall economy is certainly not capitalist.

Yeah, the communists have been doing that for a long time now.

Personally, I read a lot of this guy growing up, he's a bit off the track for most people.

Cordwainer Smith


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Linebarger


China seems more capitalist than the US is these days.

Screw all the idiots supporting 2% of the population owning 95% of the valuable assets.

Or whatever the screwed up figures are these days.

If you idiots keep voting for that shit you get what you deserve, I'm probably not going to be around for much longer to watch it anyways, but what a fucking mess.

 

[BoberFett]

Last I checked roughly 40 of the economy is still outright owned or controlled by the Chinese govt./communist party and a good chunk of what remains was hived off to 'private' individuals and families who are friends and relatives of the party leaders. The Chinese govt. still puts out '5 year plans' for the economy. Apparently the country is in it's 12th 5 year plan.

While elements of capitalism have been mixed in, the overall economy is certainly not capitalist.

I'm trying to figure out how that's all that different than the US...

What percentage of GDP is government spending?

Who has been benefiting from deficit spending and QE? Joe Average or the friends of the politicians?

Our presidents all seem to have lots of 4 year plans.

 

[Zebo]

I like how the first two charts aren't per capita, and how the last one doesn't talk about absolute earnings but relative, as if the bloatfest that is an American doctor's annual income is somehow a fair comparison when looking at Chinese doctors. Last I checked, our colleges still lead the world, and even if we really are going to be "overtaken", what does it matter and what are we to do about it? Do we need to implement knowledge tariffs? Do we need to ensure that our foreign exchange student deficit is eliminated? If there's a problem, it's a local one in the form of students unwilling to apply themselves and get a degree in something more rigorous than womyn's studies.

EDIT: Well, to be fair of course there's an issue with the average public school education that kids here receive as well, as well as lazy parents not pushing them to work at it.

Our colleges lead world in what unemployed graduates taught a bunch of nonsense? Student debt? While having a legacy and a couple are still great MIT/Caltech/Stanford I see a lot of foreigners imported from IITs and places like University of Peking to top tech companies and investment banks. Hell if it wasnt for limitations on H1Bs CEOs are begging for all the time I bet our top companies wouldn't even bother with dumbed down grade inflated US university grads. Grad schools and professional schools today are like 50% foreign. Seen you doctor lately? I did and when looking over provider manual over half had Asian names. Foeign, still pass a complicated medical licencing test in English. Become doctors. I wonder how many of our grads could do that say to China?

 

[Zebo]

Ok, I'm convinced now.

The number one priority of first world countries _must_ be to keep third world countries in the third world. God knows we can't compete with them.

Depends on what kind of society you wish to live in. We could compete easy with china and have full employment tomorrow by nixing all labor laws and social welfare. When ppl are over barrel they'll work cheap, or die, like they do in China.

since we decided we dont want to live that way we are living on borrowed time (debt and legacy) maintaining a decent standard of living while few are working. If you want more working and less debt you have choices above or tariffs to take account of slave wage countries.

Never give up absolute advantage for comparative advantage. It's bleeding us and will kill us one day.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm trying to figure out how that's all that different than the US...

What percentage of GDP is government spending?

Who has been benefiting from deficit spending and QE? Joe Average or the friends of the politicians?

Our presidents all seem to have lots of 4 year plans.

The stupidity of comparing the Chinese and American economies like you just tried here is only superseded by the stupidity of trying to paint Obama as some kind of rabid communist/socialist.

Is the above post really what you consider a serious, well thought out proposition?

Those tired songs are just that, tired. You don't like the guy and his policies, fine. But please, base your complaints in reality.

Fucking American partisanship. Your country is, in many ways, tearing itself apart and all half the population can do is call each other stupid names while the other half doesn't seem to give a damn about anything at all.

I can't stand the guy myself as I've explained to you in the past. I think his continuation and expansion of the surveillance society tactics of his predecessor is verging on criminal as is his use of extrajudicial killing of both American citizens and non citizens.

Throw in the fact that he's not much more than a Wall Street sock puppet who's main concern seems to be his historical legacy as the "1st Black President" and I'd say there's plenty of *real* issues to bitch about without making up weird shit about what a commie the guy is.

 

[cyclohexane]

All the brains in the world mean nothing if your people lack the will to innovate. Just as how the Iraqi lack the will to fight for freedom. Let us know when the other worlds countries starts picking up on those qualities.

Vague bullshit. Who are these people? Do you know anyone personally who have "the will to innovate"? Are they American born?

All I know is that I work many talented and hard working foreign-born coworkers.

 

[boomerang]

Two years minimum of Mandarin should be a requirement in school.

 

[justoh]

The stupidity of comparing the Chinese and American economies like you just tried here is only superseded by the stupidity of trying to paint Obama as some kind of rabid communist/socialist.

Is the above post really what you consider a serious, well thought out proposition?

Those tired songs are just that, tired. You don't like the guy and his policies, fine. But please, base your complaints in reality.

Fucking American partisanship. Your country is, in many ways, tearing itself apart and all half the population can do is call each other stupid names while the other half doesn't seem to give a damn about anything at all.

I can't stand the guy myself as I've explained to you in the past. I think his continuation and expansion of the surveillance society tactics of his predecessor is verging on criminal as is his use of extrajudicial killing of both American citizens and non citizens.

Throw in the fact that he's not much more than a Wall Street sock puppet who's main concern seems to be his historical legacy as the "1st Black President" and I'd say there's plenty of *real* issues to bitch about without making up weird shit about what a commie the guy is.

Say it. Don't spray it.

 

[boomerang]

The stupidity of comparing the Chinese and American economies like you just tried here is only superseded by the stupidity of trying to paint Obama as some kind of rabid communist/socialist.

Is the above post really what you consider a serious, well thought out proposition?

Those tired songs are just that, tired. You don't like the guy and his policies, fine. But please, base your complaints in reality.

Fucking American partisanship. Your country is, in many ways, tearing itself apart and all half the population can do is call each other stupid names while the other half doesn't seem to give a damn about anything at all.

I can't stand the guy myself as I've explained to you in the past. I think his continuation and expansion of the surveillance society tactics of his predecessor is verging on criminal as is his use of extrajudicial killing of both American citizens and non citizens.

Throw in the fact that he's not much more than a Wall Street sock puppet who's main concern seems to be his historical legacy as the "1st Black President" and I'd say there's plenty of *real* issues to bitch about without making up weird shit about what a commie the guy is.

How exactly is your "change the U.S." crusade going? Are you hitting your metrics?

 

[Engineer]

Fucking American partisanship. Your country is, in many ways, tearing itself apart and all half the population can do is call each other stupid names while the other half doesn't seem to give a damn about anything at all.

Might be the most true statement every typed on these forums.

 

[justoh]

Might be the most true statement every typed on these forums.

Or the most lame and superficial.