News Chinese fab banned from using US technology

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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
SMIC have been added to the Entity List. For those unfamiliar, that means that they are not allowed to buy any US originating technology- so it's going to get a lot harder for SMIC to operate.

 
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ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
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Yes, because the rest of the world will just sit on their hands and let China take the lead
You've seen Intel is just so far ahead these days. They could never fall beh... what's that? TSMC passed them on process node tech years ago and AMD currently beats them in all categories?

Well, x86 is going to stay on top. What's that? Apple's first attempt at ARM is rivaling x86 and even does good at emulation through Rosetta? And Microsoft is doing the same? And nvidia is purchasing ARM to make their own CPUs? And ARM wins on power consumption versus x86?

Well certainly ARM is going to be king for a long time and x86 and ARM are going nowhere.

*RISC-V without legacy instruction sets ballooning core sizes and high customization sitting in the corner saying wait till the get a load of me*

This isn't saying the rest of the world is sitting on their hands. Even when not, look at Huawei regarding telecommunications. First to 5G with ready tech to roll out and the west having to knee cap them to even try to compete. They are testing 6G as the other companies are just now preparing their 5G tech for roll out.

Now, due to necessity being the mother of all invention, we created an artificial necessity in China to develop the competing tech. Whether from bigotry or from hubris, you assume China is behind and can never excel beyond western nations. *rolls eyes*
 
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Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,510
4,114
136
ASML US division cannot sell to China, but they have other areas

If only US companies are subject to the sanctions, why did TSMC stop selling to Huawei? They are not a US company in any way shape or form. It was because they depend on US technology that could (theoretically) be withheld. Same with ASML, there's no way they don't depend on US technology somewhere to manufacture those EUV scanners.

You haven't been paying attention to how the game is played. Not saying I like this or approve, but you have to recognize what is really happening rather than sticking your head in the sand and assuming because ASML has its HQ elsewhere that it won't be subject to sanctions. I'm sure people would have said the same about TSMC at first.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Now, due to necessity being the mother of all invention, we created an artificial necessity in China to develop the competing tech. Whether from bigotry or from hubris, you assume China is behind and can never excel beyond western nations. *rolls eyes*
You're not paying attention - the Chinese have been working on the semiconductor business and plan to become a major player (if not the dominant one). They are currently are behind TSMC, Samsung and, yes, Intel and by quite a margin. I have no bigotry towards China (thought I do hate their system of gov't) and this isn't hubris, it's practicality.
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
If only US companies are subject to the sanctions, why did TSMC stop selling to Huawei? They are not a US company in any way shape or form. It was because they depend on US technology that could (theoretically) be withheld. Same with ASML, there's no way they don't depend on US technology somewhere to manufacture those EUV scanners.

You haven't been paying attention to how the game is played. Not saying I like this or approve, but you have to recognize what is really happening rather than sticking your head in the sand and assuming because ASML has its HQ elsewhere that it won't be subject to sanctions. I'm sure people would have said the same about TSMC at first.
It's not tech, it is customer base. TSMC owns their own process patents. In fact, if you were paying attention, you would have seen the patent fab fights with Intel, global foundries, etc. The US tech is NOT what the consideration was. It was losing Apple and AMD for only keeping Huawei. If Apple and AMD and Nvidia could not fab at TSMC, even with their massive process lead, that is a huge hit to their bottom line. Especially since AMD practically snapped up all of Huawei's fabrication time for the end of Q4. And even though Nvidia Produces the consumer products at Samsung for now (and rumored for Lovelace), they still produce the 100 dies at TSMC and outright sanctions because of working with Huawei, the stated reason for the proposed sanctions, would have prohibited any future cooperation.

It was not dependence on US tech. It was relying on US customer base to sell fab time to.
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
You're not paying attention - the Chinese have been working on the semiconductor business and plan to become a major player (if not the dominant one). They are currently are behind TSMC, Samsung and, yes, Intel and by quite a margin. I have no bigotry towards China (thought I do hate their system of gov't) and this isn't hubris, it's practicality.
There is an old saying: don't reinvent the wheel. China has not been trying to, in earnest, win on specifically mainstream CPUs and GPUs until recently. Why? Because the tech existed. You don't waste resources on something you do not have to. It was a couple years into the 2000s we started sanctioning Huawei and ZTE. Now, they are ahead of every global player in telecommunications. Huawei isn't just a phone company, they are a company providing hardware for switches and backbones of our telecommunications industry. They worked heavily with players like HPE, which sought an exemption to work with them. It was the intelligence agencies that wanted to attack Huawei and limit their hardware from deployment, thereby helping companies like Cisco and Sony- Erickson.

The sanctions related to accessing Xeon Phi and nvidia compute cards happened mid-2010s. It was during Trump's actions regarding TSMC and Huawei in 2017 and 2018 that led to China eventually passing the law to require all Chinese government computers to be made using homegrown processors in a 3 year period. If we look at the same trajectory, by the late 2020s, they should be caught up or beyond. They now have an announced GPU developer for creating GPUs for the government. They have the via JV, and some of the cutting edge research in the world. In fact, Intel is currently being sued for infringing SIMC's patents.

So you really do not understand they didn't compete until forced to on some things. Now, we have forced them to. And government contracts are lucrative, hence why Intel and AMD and Nvidia and IBM, etc., regularly compete for our government's and other governments' contracts for super computers.
 
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positivedoppler

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,112
174
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If only US companies are subject to the sanctions, why did TSMC stop selling to Huawei? They are not a US company in any way shape or form. It was because they depend on US technology that could (theoretically) be withheld. Same with ASML, there's no way they don't depend on US technology somewhere to manufacture those EUV scanners.

You haven't been paying attention to how the game is played. Not saying I like this or approve, but you have to recognize what is really happening rather than sticking your head in the sand and assuming because ASML has its HQ elsewhere that it won't be subject to sanctions. I'm sure people would have said the same about TSMC at first.

We put a lot of pressure on TSMC and we should. China has become increasingly aggressive and might make a move on Taiwan. We are on the hooking for defending Taiwan against China. It makes no sense for us to allow Taiwan to get rich selling technology to China that will be used against us if we defend Taiwan.
 

ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
We put a lot of pressure on TSMC and we should. China has become increasingly aggressive and might make a move on Taiwan. We are on the hooking for defending Taiwan against China. It makes no sense for us to allow Taiwan to get rich selling technology to China that will be used against us if we defend Taiwan.
Wth are you talking about? Literally, why is it the US job to defend Taiwan from China. The United Nations DO NOT recognize Taiwan as its own country. China has the one China principle which allows Taiwan autonomy so long as they acknowledge China owns them. The US has respected the one China policy since the 90s until Trump.

The aggression building is due to the US selling weapons systems to Taiwan, including cruise missiles and drones.

So the US would have been the cause for China to crackdown on Taiwan, but internationally, Taiwan IS CHINA. That means intervention on Taiwan's behalf to have war with China would be an American attack. Not defensive.

As I said above, look up and research every recent war game against China, from Rand's WWIII simulation to Australia's simulation showing we get owned hard in the opening hours to the one from a couple years back being called by the civilian participants because it ended in nuclear war.

Now, after researching all of those war games, tell me again how it is the US's responsibility.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,217
15,787
126
Even knowing EXACTLY what TSMC is doing in say N5 doesn't help them replicate it when they won't be able to buy EUV scanners. That's just the tip of the iceberg, they will have to replicate all the tools, the design software, everything in the whole stack. Industrial espionage can only get you so far, there will be things they can't 'acquire' and have to figure out on their own. It might take them a decade to move beyond where multipattern DUV can get them (i.e. approximately where TSMC/Samsung are at "7nm" or Intel is at "10nm") Just look at how long it took the industry to make EUV work at production volumes, they had to overcome a number of huge hurdles to do so.


ASML is Dutch. Sure, US pressure stopped the sale this time, but that is not likely to continue since it didn't meet US's own standard for objection.
 
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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,868
3,419
136
Wth are you talking about? Literally, why is it the US job to defend Taiwan from China. The United Nations DO NOT recognize Taiwan as its own country. China has the one China principle which allows Taiwan autonomy so long as they acknowledge China owns them. The US has respected the one China policy since the 90s until Trump.

The aggression building is due to the US selling weapons systems to Taiwan, including cruise missiles and drones.

So the US would have been the cause for China to crackdown on Taiwan, but internationally, Taiwan IS CHINA. That means intervention on Taiwan's behalf to have war with China would be an American attack. Not defensive.

As I said above, look up and research every recent war game against China, from Rand's WWIII simulation to Australia's simulation showing we get owned hard in the opening hours to the one from a couple years back being called by the civilian participants because it ended in nuclear war.

Now, after researching all of those war games, tell me again how it is the US's responsibility.
Did you read this from the CPP play book ?
Trying to use the decisions made by the UN in 1970's around recognition of ROC vs PRC isn't exactly being honest. The modern problem is China will directly attack an economy if a country speaks out against them ( see Australia right now). So until push comes to actual shove your not going to see movement from the world because of blow back. Its not that the rest of the 1st won't its that they didnt have to because of US presence, so don't get confused by this.

I would also like you to explain how the US gets owned Hard in the Pacific without starting WW3. Outside of Guam which is 1600Nm away all other bases are on other countries soil.

People talk about china just catching up like its nothing. Just look at things like advanced metallurgy, they have had SU-27's with AL-31 engines in them in country since '91', been trying to copy them since day dot and only this year have they started to replace Russian engines ( not even modern or high powered Russian engines) in there own indigenous aircraft. The idea that they will just catch up and quickly, just because china, is one I don't subscribe to.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,378
2,256
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This obviously means that China will put a lot of resources into developing their own tools/IP instead of relying on anything related to US.
I assume this work is alredy ongoing, but this new restriction will speed things up.
So good for China and bad for US in the long run.

I don't understand this. If it's better for China in the long run to develop the tech/tools on their own why did they make the decision to buy them in the first place? I don't understand why they would make (as you say) a bad economic business decision?
 
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Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,814
4,108
136
Wth are you talking about? Literally, why is it the US job to defend Taiwan from China. The United Nations DO NOT recognize Taiwan as its own country. China has the one China principle which allows Taiwan autonomy so long as they acknowledge China owns them. The US has respected the one China policy since the 90s until Trump.

The aggression building is due to the US selling weapons systems to Taiwan, including cruise missiles and drones.

So the US would have been the cause for China to crackdown on Taiwan, but internationally, Taiwan IS CHINA. That means intervention on Taiwan's behalf to have war with China would be an American attack. Not defensive.

As I said above, look up and research every recent war game against China, from Rand's WWIII simulation to Australia's simulation showing we get owned hard in the opening hours to the one from a couple years back being called by the civilian participants because it ended in nuclear war.

Now, after researching all of those war games, tell me again how it is the US's responsibility.

I'll take our 11 carrier groups compared to China's two, one of which is an old Soviet design, and neither nearly as capable. Never mind the difference in the number and quality of aircraft. But this has nothing to do with CPU's, so why keep bringing it up?
 

positivedoppler

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2012
1,112
174
106
Wth are you talking about? Literally, why is it the US job to defend Taiwan from China. The United Nations DO NOT recognize Taiwan as its own country. China has the one China principle which allows Taiwan autonomy so long as they acknowledge China owns them. The US has respected the one China policy since the 90s until Trump.

The aggression building is due to the US selling weapons systems to Taiwan, including cruise missiles and drones.

So the US would have been the cause for China to crackdown on Taiwan, but internationally, Taiwan IS CHINA. That means intervention on Taiwan's behalf to have war with China would be an American attack. Not defensive.

As I said above, look up and research every recent war game against China, from Rand's WWIII simulation to Australia's simulation showing we get owned hard in the opening hours to the one from a couple years back being called by the civilian participants because it ended in nuclear war.

Now, after researching all of those war games, tell me again how it is the US's responsibility.

Get this through your head, Taiwan is not part of China. I'M Shocked how far that racist communist government has brainwashed the world.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,813
11,168
136

Interesting. From your second link, it looks like selling used DUV machines to SMIC will require approval from the US gubment, while new machines have to be routed through the Netherlands.

Funny you call them a parasite when Intel violated SMIC held patents filled in the US. What specifically are you referring to?

SMIC's 14nm node is widely-believed to have been cribbed from Samsung, who in turn stole from TSMC. There have been accusations of IP theft against SMIC as far back as 2003.
 
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ajc9988

Senior member
Apr 1, 2015
278
171
116
Did you read this from the CPP play book ?
Trying to use the decisions made by the UN in 1970's around recognition of ROC vs PRC isn't exactly being honest. The modern problem is China will directly attack an economy if a country speaks out against them ( see Australia right now). So until push comes to actual shove your not going to see movement from the world because of blow back. Its not that the rest of the 1st won't its that they didnt have to because of US presence, so don't get confused by this.

I would also like you to explain how the US gets owned Hard in the Pacific without starting WW3. Outside of Guam which is 1600Nm away all other bases are on other countries soil.

People talk about china just catching up like its nothing. Just look at things like advanced metallurgy, they have had SU-27's with AL-31 engines in them in country since '91', been trying to copy them since day dot and only this year have they started to replace Russian engines ( not even modern or high powered Russian engines) in there own indigenous aircraft. The idea that they will just catch up and quickly, just because china, is one I don't subscribe to.
Get this through your head, Taiwan is not part of China. I'M Shocked how far that racist communist government has brainwashed the world.

First, here is Newsweek discussing how even the US government does not recognize Taiwan as a country: https://www.newsweek.com/who-recognizes-taiwan-two-change-china-1460559

"After closing its missions in the Solomon Islands and Kiribati, Taiwan would be left with recognition from only 14 out of 193 United Nations member states: Belize, Eswatini, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, the Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and Tuvalu. The Holy See also recognizes Taiwan. . . . The U.S. maintained its recognition of Taiwan for three decades after the Chinese civil war, but eventually switched in 1979, eight years after the United Nations granted Beijing China's seat as a permanent member of the Security Council. Washington has continued to uphold informal political ties to Taipei, however, and has continued to provide Taiwan with military assistance, something that has deeply angered China, which has threatened to reunify what it viewed as a renegade province by force, if necessary."

The pointing to the TRA as support also misses the 1992 negotiations between China and Taiwan, which has basically implemented that so long as they are considered part of China, they can rule themselves. Even of their own citizens, it is split evenly on whether they want to destroy this balance with China, with about 50% of its population and 40% of it's government officials speaking out against the US arms deals that happened in the past year, which would sell 7 systems, including cruise missiles and drones, to Taiwan.

That is to deal with whether they are considered their own nation.

As to aid, when that agreement was made, China was not a modern military like it is now. More on that in a moment.

I'll take our 11 carrier groups compared to China's two, one of which is an old Soviet design, and neither nearly as capable. Never mind the difference in the number and quality of aircraft. But this has nothing to do with CPU's, so why keep bringing it up?

The problem they pointed out is that Chinese missiles would down our aircraft carriers. They are powerful, if you can use them. They are powerful, if your pilots have something to return to after getting airborne. So if solely that, then you would have a point. But that was already factored into the war games I mentioned.


Sorry, finding them quickly this morning wasn't the exact sources I wanted. One discusses a war game from a year ago in 2019 (Fox), one discusses the pentagon war game from this year (Aviation Geek), and the other discusses the Australia report.

Now, to be fair, many games look at where China will be in 2030, although we have some war games that have shown they could beat us now. In fact, around 2026 is the year some put at them being technologically beyond our ability to contain militarily, which could be why we are pushing for war now.

And that is before discussing how our Phalanx CIWS, which is not just on ships but on our bases abroad to help with missiles, didn't stop the Iranian missiles, suggesting the more advanced Chinese and Russian missiles would not be stopped. China both has the Russian S-400 system and their modified missiles which fly higher and farther that can be used with it. Although not relevant here other than Russia saying they will eventually sell this tech to other countries, now has a Mach 27 missile. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-ne...rsonic-glide-vehicle-intercontinental-1273729 . By comparison, the US THAAD, created after G.W. Bush pulled out of a missile treaty with Russia, moves so slowly it could not even dream of stopping these missiles.

As to aircraft, have you been following the advancements in Chinese and Russian aircraft? Or are you just assuming superiority?

Now, why is it germane? Great question. Sanctions are an act similar to a siege, which siege warfare is illegal. This is why you are supposed to get the UN to agree to collectively act to implement sanctions. Without UN action, you are violating international agreements through unilateral implementation of sanctions, although you are legally justified to respond to them as they are seen as aggression. Economic warfare, in a more general sense, often leads to actual warfare. And, believe it or not, as seen above, the cards are not all in our favor to pick a war with a country like China. Hell, their mineral rights for rare earth materials alone can effect our ability to produce our military goods if we were cut off during war. You can try to downplay that all you like, but that is a reality.

Further, from the supply side, doing this, while poking China on Taiwan, would cause a disruption in supply of many electronic devices. About 70% of companies refused to move from China for supply even with Trump's trade war. Even those that did move, a large proportion of them still rely on components for incorporation originating in China, with the harmonization schedules changing the country of origin once assembled depending on product, etc.

So I'd be a bit more willing to negotiate with China than what we have been doing for the simple fact that it is easy to cross lines and I distrust our leaders with brinksmanship.

SMIC's 14nm node is widely-believed to have been cribbed from Samsung, who in turn stole from TSMC. There have been accusations of IP theft against SMIC as far back as 2003.
Very true. But I am referencing a very specific patent case. Now, it is true that TSMC has held back, even with other fabs in other countries, when enforcing their IP rights. There are a couple reasons for that, including always facing the potential for invalidation of a patent, but also because when you start pulling threads, the other companies go back to their portfolios to do cross-claims of infringements on their patents.

In no way am I saying your statement is incorrect. Instead, I am saying claims outside of court mean little. And considering SMIC is set to win that case against Intel for violating their patent, it suggests that each company understands fighting this in court could result in being called out on their own violations.

But, IP theft is a real and serious issue. I will not belittle your point there. And China has had claims turned at them numerous times. For example, the Micron case in CA filed after China's anti-monopoly agency started investigating price fixing among ram manufacturers. Although after that RAM prices normalized, the case Micron filed was about the agency helping the chinese ram manufacturer and for patent violations (that's Micron after all).

Did you not see Esquared warning two posts above before posting this?

AT Mod Usandthem
 
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Failnaught

Member
Aug 4, 2008
26
25
91
Politics aside, there is already some conjectures/rumors that even American semi tool companies are thinking about selling equipment to China anyway, stripped of "US content" and manufactured far away from US: Undermining American Industrial Excellence: Controls on Wafer Fab Equipment and China . You can bet Asian semi suppliers (say in Japan or Korea) are thinking the same thing.

Semiconductors are the future. Most economic growth in the last half century came from semis. No country with a big enough market and talent pool would give up here, especially if Americans threaten access to advanced technology itself. Trump Administration, on a whim, denied Chinese companies the ability to buy equipment with American parts. Up to now, Chinese companies used foreign suppliers when it made sense. They won't be able to do that anymore.

The open question is how long will it take for China to make good enough substitutes for western semiconductors? Things move fast in tech. Android 1.0 was released in 2008, just 12 years ago. And I wonder who the winners of this transition will be.
 

zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,184
459
136
BTW, I just recalled this, a reverse-engineered 486DX2 made by SSMC that was discovered this year. It was made in 1996, whereas Intel released the 486DX2 in 1992. So, three decades ago, they were just around 4 years behind. Not that I think that outright copying a modern Processor that is infinitely more complex would be any easier, but they should also have much more tools as their disposal.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,510
4,114
136
BTW, I just recalled this, a reverse-engineered 486DX2 made by SSMC that was discovered this year. It was made in 1996, whereas Intel released the 486DX2 in 1992. So, three decades ago, they were just around 4 years behind. Not that I think that outright copying a modern Processor that is infinitely more complex would be any easier, but they should also have much more tools as their disposal.

The A14 in an iPhone has around 10000x more transistors than the 486DX2 did. No one is reverse engineering a modern CPU/SoC, unless by "reverse engineering" you mean cloning e.g. stealing the RTL and doing all the back end work with whatever tools and fab process you have at your disposal.

The fab technology was also far more accessible back then, with hundreds of fabs around the world within four years of the leading edge. Even if someone stole for example an A14 mask set it wouldn't do them any good unless/until they had access to a fab compatible with TSMC's N5 process. The bar is much much higher today, despite having more tools.

It really isn't worth it anyway, even a country under heavy sanctions like North Korea would have a much easier time buying the chips they want with bitcoin "earned" via ransomware and smuggling them into their country than reverse engineering their own. Maybe it makes sense with proprietary military stuff, especially since those generally aren't built at the leading edge, who knows.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
Yes, because the rest of the world will just sit on their hands and let China take the lead

There s nothing the rest of the world can do, actually, that s just a matter of time.

20 millions chinese graduating from university each year, with one million enginers in this total, that is, 30% of the world yearly output for enginering heads.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,709
5,441
136
The problem they pointed out is that Chinese missiles would down our aircraft carriers.

going to try and avoid most of your post, but you seem to be staking a lot on those missiles.


The ocean is very big. Bigger then you can imagine. Bigger then you think it is. So big it is actually quite hard to find ships that do not want to be found. Even with satellites.

You see, it is just a ton of data. Data the satellite* has to collect, data it has to transmit. Data people have to pour over. And even with all that data, that satellite just gets tiny slice of the earths surface.

Finding the ship and launching the missile is not good enough either. The missile takes time to fly through the air. Even supersonic ballistic missiles of doom flying at 2300 mph. At the distances said missile is being fired, the person firing it has to predict where the target will be 30 to 60 minutes after launch. The target will moving at least 30 knots.

It is like a game of battleship where the players get to move their ships around and there is a several million grid squares.


*assuming the satellite just does not disappear for some odd reason:
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
There s nothing the rest of the world can do, actually, that s just a matter of time.

20 millions chinese graduating from university each year, with one million enginers in this total, that is, 30% of the world yearly output for enginering heads.
I had noted this in an earlier post. The real issue is getting experience working at a top level FAB prior to returning to China - the devil being in the details and all that.
So, eventually they will at least match top level fabs, because China has made this market segment a critical target for development - they will pour 100s of billions into achieving their goals.
Of course, I made this comment because the leading edge fabs will also pour 100's of billions into development and construction over the next 10 years. So, the target is in fact a moving one.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
I had noted this in an earlier post. The real issue is getting experience working at a top level FAB prior to returning to China - the devil being in the details and all that.
So, eventually they will at least match top level fabs, because China has made this market segment a critical target for development - they will pour 100s of billions into achieving their goals.
Of course, I made this comment because the leading edge fabs will also pour 100's of billions into development and construction over the next 10 years. So, the target is in fact a moving one.

Chinese firms will rely as much as possible on chinese silicon as a mean to escape any future US sanctions, currently SMIC is at 14nm, that s good enough for most of the electronics industry, other firms advance is not that big considering that miniaturisation pace will slow down even more in the next decade, they wont take the lead in the coming years, but for sure that it wont necessitate more than 20 years.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
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Chinese firms will rely as much as possible on chinese silicon as a mean to escape any future US sanctions, currently SMIC is at 14nm, that s good enough for most of the electronics industry, other firms advance is not that big considering that miniaturisation pace will slow down even more in the next decade, they wont take the lead in the coming years, but for sure that it wont necessitate more than 20 years.

There are worse fates than being stuck at 14nm for a few years- Intel seem to have survived alright

It's going to be interesting to watch. Hopefully we will start seeing some interesting divergence in tech- if Chinese fabs and Western aligned fabs start using different tech, instead of all relying on e.g. ASML, it increases the odds that one of them will make a big breakthrough.
 
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