chiropractor: should I?

[Bateluer]

This should be /thread for all the chiro threads that pop up. If pt walks into a chiro with pain, and walks out with pain relief and no detriment to the pt, then who the fuck cares?

Because it contradicts the ATOT 'MDs'. Only prescription pain killers and bed rest can address back pain or spinal problems. /sarcasm

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

You keep repeating this, but it's wrong. Chiropractic care has been shown to be as effective as traditional medicine for treatment of back pain.
http://journals.lww.com/spinejourna...ffectiveness_Analysis_of_Chiropractic.15.aspx

http://journals.lww.com/spinejourna..._Follow_up_Comparison_of_the_Cost_and.16.aspx
(which says, more or less, that it works for some people and doesn't for others.)
http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/9272472/reload=0;jsessionid=F7641BFCE5A03B4E5878FD8A6E3A3BFD.jvm4
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8775024

This comes up in every fucking chiro thread and it pisses me off. It's like a fundy Christian coming along and saying, "see, the bible said the earth is round and it is, therefore everything in the bible is true!" Yes, there is one (maybe two) indications for which chiro is as good as (but no better than) real medicine. But it's still proven over and over again to be completely ineffective for every other indication, but that doesn't stop chiros from bullshitting their way into gullible people's wallets for every malady under the sun.

 

[Bateluer]

This comes up in every fucking chiro thread and it pisses me off. It's like a fundy Christian coming along and saying, "see, the bible said the earth is round and it is, therefore everything in the bible is true!" Yes, there is one (maybe two) indications for which chiro is as good as (but no better than) real medicine. But it's still proven over and over again to be completely ineffective for every other indication, but that doesn't stop chiros from bullshitting their way into gullible people's wallets for every malady under the sun.

As opposed to MD's bullshitting people onto medications, while taking kickbacks from the drug companies to push their products?

Why do you care what someone does for their medical care? Its between the patient and their doctors, not you. You have exactly zero say and your opinion means precisely dick.

 

[TheVrolok]

If you read what I have said before, I would never advocate going to a alternative medicine practitioner over a MD, but if conventional medicine has no other option, what's the harm in giving it a shot?

Just wondering how you feel about American DOs, where you'd place them on the spectrum if we're talking about clinical medicine and not research.

 

[sjwaste]

Myself, I prefer a good osteopathic physician (DO). If you live near a osteopathic medical school, call them and ask where they send their students for 3rd year family practice rotations. There are quite a few DO's, but most complete allopathic residency training and don't practice OMM and other osteopathic-specific therapies. A good DO is like a cross between you regular doc and a chiro, but without all the weird shit that alot of chiros pimp and peddle.

I think this is the best advice so far. My family doc growing up was a DO, and he's still the best doctor I've ever been to. DO's go to med school and get most of the training of an MD, some do the same residencies, and at worst, you end up with a physician who knows a little of both osteopathic and allopathic medicine.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Why do you care what someone does for their medical care?

http://whatstheharm.net/

 

[Mo0o]

Just wondering how you feel about American DOs, where you'd place them on the spectrum if we're talking about clinical medicine and not research.

On average they tend to be worse than MDs only because DO med schools tend to be a dumping grounds for kids that couldnt get into MD med schools for one reason or another. A lot end up taking the MD exams (USMLE) and apply to MD residencies and end up practicing very conventional medicine. I think for the most part I have no problem with DOs since they follow established clinical practice guidelines. As far as their adjustments and such, I think most DOs dont actually do them anymore because its time consuming and doesnt make that much money. If you find a DO that you're happy with, I'd just stick with him/her rather than seeking out a MD. But if youre looking for a new doctor, I personally would choose an MD as my first test drive but obviously my opinion is very very biased.

 

[TheVrolok]

T Yes, there is one (maybe two) indications for which chiro is as good as (but no better than) real medicine.

Isn't that all people are saying? I don't think there are people running around saying that they recommend a chiro over an MD for cardiac care.

 

[TheVrolok]

On average they tend to be worse than MDs only because DO med schools tend to be a dumping grounds for kids that couldnt get into MD med schools for one reason or another.

I agree with the dumping grounds issue, but what do you suppose is "worse?" Are there stats that imply that clinical outcomes are worse, patient satisfaction is worse, etc.?

 

[Mo0o]

I agree with the dumping grounds issue, but what do you suppose is "worse?" Are there stats that imply that clinical outcomes are worse, patient satisfaction is worse, etc.?

I dont have any data on that. I'm basing this only off of the fact that A) average entrance MCAT scores, GPAs etc for DO med shcools are way way lower than that of MD schools B) DO's fair worse in MD residency match and could potentially get inferior training because of that. I dont have any data on outcomes/patient satisfaction. It's possible they might have higher patient satisfaction since DO tends to focus heavily on patient interaction, touchy feely stuff, and a lot of research suggests thats the highest factor in patient satisfaction/malpractice suits.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Isn't that all people are saying? I don't think there are people running around saying that they recommend a chiro over an MD for cardiac care.

OP has a foot/knee issue. You'd have to be brain damaged to believe a chiro could help him, but I'd be willing to place money than 90+% of chiros would claim they would help his bad foot/knee with a back manipulation. They are liars and cheats. Science has proven this. Accept it or continue living in the dark ages with the fundamental christians and evolution deniers.

 

[DrPizza]

This comes up in every fucking chiro thread and it pisses me off. It's like a fundy Christian coming along and saying, "see, the bible said the earth is round and it is, therefore everything in the bible is true!" Yes, there is one (maybe two) indications for which chiro is as good as (but no better than) real medicine. But it's still proven over and over again to be completely ineffective for every other indication, but that doesn't stop chiros from bullshitting their way into gullible people's wallets for every malady under the sun.

Well, this makes you look like a dumbass, because one of my links wasn't for lower back pain. And, "total bullshit" implies something other than "just as effective." I agree wholeheartedly that chiropractic care can't cure colds, the flu, etc.; and most chiropractors agree. Remember, it was a *medical doctor* who said that vaccinations cause autism. But, you don't see everyone running around claiming that all doctors are quacks just because some of them are. Not all chiropractors are quacks. Some are. But a lot of people benefit from the care of those who aren't quacks.

 

[Bateluer]

OP has a foot/knee issue. You'd have to be brain damaged to believe a chiro could help him, but I'd be willing to place money than 90+% of chiros would claim they would help his bad foot/knee with a back manipulation. They are liars and cheats. Science has proven this. Accept it or continue living in the dark ages with the fundamental christians and evolution deniers.

Err, you do know that a chiropractor doesn't manipulate just the spine? Maybe you should consult a little wikipedia at least, before spew such idiocy. This really makes you look like a fundamentalist Christian, blind stupidity.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Well, this makes you look like a dumbass, because one of my links wasn't for lower back pain.

That's why I said "maybe two", because that study, although it looked positive, was a very small metastudy. Not to be relied upon.

Remember, it was a *medical doctor* who said that vaccinations cause autism. But, you don't see everyone running around claiming that all doctors are quacks just because some of them are.

You mean Andrew Wakefield, the man who was struck from the medical register, whose paper was withdrawn from publication by The Lancet and who was ostracized by the medical community and can no longer practice medicine due to his fraud? Yeah, let me know when the chiro community reacts the same way to fraud in their ranks.

 

[Bateluer]

GodlessAstronomer, how do you feel about massages?

 

[angminas]

Thanks, ATOT, for once again displaying the difference between INT and WIS. Chiro threads are great for telling who has their eyes open and who's a reactionary loudmouth.

I've been to two chiropractors more than once. One helped tremendously and one did not help a lot. The one who helped more is actually the more spacey one, and I don't buy his Acidophilus pills, but his adjustments are spot on, especially when he got me back in shape after my first pinched nerve (the worst pain of my life) and my car accident. (He uses the Gonstead method, btw...not all chiropractors do the same adjustments or in the same way.) He's helped me with my neck, back, hips, wrists, knees, jaw...he knows musculoskeletal functions very well, and his advice in that area has ALWAYS helped, except that I can't stand to use ice.

So I listen to him when he tells me which ankle exercises to do, and I listen to my GP when he tells me whether I need antibiotics. I don't go to either one any more often than I have to, and, unless I'm referred, I don't go to others now that I've found people who know what they're doing. If my chiro tells me to use ice but ice makes the pain much worse, I don't use ice. If my GP tries to prescribe me a narcotic pain med I don't want to take, I tell him no. If the people I go to start to slip, I'll go somewhere else. I use my head, take responsibility for my body, always keep an eye out for alternatives, and remember that professionals usually know better than me, but not always.

We have lots of different kinds of engineers and mechanics. In addition to different specialties, some are good, others are bad, and many are in the middle...why should it be so different with people who work on the human body? I don't know what percentage of chiropractors are helpful to what percentage of the population...maybe most are good, or maybe I just got lucky...but for what I need from him, my chiropractor works.

Of course you need to keep your BS meter on, but that applies to ANY time someone offers you a product or service. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is for fools.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

GodlessAstronomer, how do you feel about massages?

They don't claim to cure disease or anything crazy like that (as far as I know). I have no problem with them.

 

[Skunkwourk]

They don't claim to cure disease or anything crazy like that (as far as I know). I have no problem with them.

So your real issue is what chiropractors claim they can treat and not that there are absolutely no benefits to any of their methods or practices?

Just curious, since I was going to ask how you felt about psychologists and therapy as well.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

So your real issue is what chiropractors claim they can treat and not that there are absolutely no benefits to any of their methods or practices?

When a chiropractor performs back manipulation to help back pain, he is not performing chiropractic, he is performing physical therapy. A real physical therapist could probably do a better job. Please educate yourself on what chiropractic actually is.

Also a massage therapist or physical therapist is not likely to fill your head with anti-science, anti-vaccination bullshit. The anti-vax contingent in chiro is way over-represented.

a 1995 survey of U.S. chiropractors found that about a third believed there was no scientific proof that immunization prevents disease.[83] While the Canadian Chiropractic Association supports vaccination,[82] a survey in Alberta in 2002 found that 25% of chiropractors advised patients for, and 27% against, vaccinating themselves or their children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy

 

[Skunkwourk]

When a chiropractor performs back manipulation to help back pain, he is not performing chiropractic, he is performing physical therapy. A real physical therapist could probably do a better job. Please educate yourself on what chiropractic actually is.

Fair enough, I don't know enough about the subject but I just wanted to know if you were arguing against what they claim they can do, or what they actually do.

EDIT: Just read your edit. I wasn't clear on your argument earlier but I got it now.