Chlorine in drinking water

[Muse]

I've been reading some environmental books:

Finished Silent Spring by Rachel Carson

1/2 way through The Sixth Extinction by Elizabeth Kolbert

About 20% into Water 4.0 by David Sedlak

The first book is alarming, a benchmark in the environmental movement. The second is also alarming, it looks like humans are in the process of killing off a million species, maybe a lot more if things continue as they are.

Ocean Life Faces Mass Extinction, Broad Study Says

The 3rd book is by a professor and I just finished a chapter explaining how water born diseases have been largely eliminated by water treatment plants featuring filtration and chlorination. He hasn't yet mentioned any negative aspects of chlorination (his typical audience is probably graduate students who want jobs in industry, not in non-profits!), but I figured they are there and I had no trouble locating online resources linking water chlorination with carcinogenesis, particularly of the bladder and rectum.

I live in Berkeley, CA and my water evidently comes from EBMUD's Orinda treatment plant. EBMUD's website indicates that they are using chlorine to kill off organisms in water (bacteria and viruses).

EBMUD water treatment page

Disinfection

The addition of a chlorine solution kills any pathogenic microscopic life, such as bacteria or viruses. Finely controlled amounts of chlorine are added on an ongoing basis. Prior to leaving the treatment plant, small amounts of ammonia are added to the chlorine to form chloramine, a more stable disinfectant, that will last longer in the distribution system.

Online sources say that using ozone is not only safe but cheaper than chlorine, but EBMUD is evidently not using ozone for this.

So, my question is should I install a water filtration system in my house whose input is my tap water? I suppose the best would be a system under the sink using carbon. My counter top is tile, I suppose I could drill a hole and mount a spigot. Comments/info?

 

[Muse]

World Health Organization

In a study of 46 communities in central Wisconsin where chlorine levels in water ranged from
0.2 to 1 mg/litre, serum cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein levels were higher in
communities using chlorinated water. Levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and the
cholesterol/HDL ratio were significantly elevated in relation to the level of calcium in the
drinking-water, but only in communities using chlorinated water. The authors speculated that
chlorine and calcium in drinking-water may interact in some way that affects lipid levels (31)

An increased risk of bladder cancer appeared to be associated with the consumption of
chlorinated tapwater in a population-based, case–control study of adults consuming
chlorinated or non-chlorinated water for half of their lifetimes (32).

 

[imagoon]

I am of the general opinion that most books need to be fact checked. "An increased risk" is thrown around a lot and sometimes maybe outside of the calculated significance. Another issue I have with a population study is there is nothing to confirm in may cases that what is being compared and studied is actually causal vs coincidence. In the quoted chunk above could have been caused by something unrelated or undetected in the water supply. I haven't read the source paper.

I personally think at this point that a slight increase in the chance of cancer is better than having to deal with something like Dysentery.

In addition, removing chlorine from your drink water doesn't eliminate what is likely the largest exposure in the house. When you are in the hot shower, it is in the water vapor and air since chlorine out gasses fairly when warm quickly. At this point you are breathing large amounts of it.

 

[CoachB]

You don't want drinking water without some form of disinfection component. Ozonation is a good spot treatment but it does NOT protect a municipal distribution system. Want chlorine free drinking water? Put a glass jug of tap water in the fridge overnight.

My opinion is....At this point there is going to be a mass extinction but will it be animals or humans?

 

[Muse]

I am of the general opinion that most books need to be fact checked. "An increased risk" is thrown around a lot and sometimes maybe outside of the calculated significance. Another issue I have with a population study is there is nothing to confirm in may cases that what is being compared and studied is actually causal vs coincidence. In the quoted chunk above could have been caused by something unrelated or undetected in the water supply. I haven't read the source paper.

I personally think at this point that a slight increase in the chance of cancer is better than having to deal with something like Dysentery.

In addition, removing chlorine from your drink water doesn't eliminate what is likely the largest exposure in the house. When you are in the hot shower, it is in the water vapor and air since chlorine out gasses fairly when warm quickly. At this point you are breathing large amounts of it.

Very interesting point! This is certainly motivation to not waste time in the shower (we're in bigtime drought mode here, anyway), and then open the window and get fresh air in the bathroom ASAP. Or, in warmer weather, leave the window open from the get-go.

 

[Muse]

You don't want drinking water without some form of disinfection component. Ozonation is a good spot treatment but it does NOT protect a municipal distribution system. Want chlorine free drinking water? Put a glass jug of tap water in the fridge overnight.

My opinion is....At this point there is going to be a mass extinction but will it be animals or humans?

What is the process there? Does the CL precipitate? Is refrigeration necessary? How about letting tap water sit in a plastic gallon jug, covered or not, in the kitchen?

 

[SP33Demon]

Dude, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I can tell you though, that I switched to drinking bottled water and my complexion immediately cleared up and I feel a lot better. Not sure why, it could be placebo effect or the fact I'm drinking more water overall.

 

[Ventanni]

Water is one of those things that we just have to protect. If you don't want mass quantities of chlorine in your water, then stop dumping garbage, industrial runoff, and sewage straight into the source of where your water comes from. It's as simple as that.

Fact #1 - It's much more costly to purify your water after it's been contaminated than it is to prevent it from contamination altogether.

Fact #2 - Fact #1 is doubly true.

 

[PenguinPower]

Guess I'm f'd. I swim twice a week at the sportsplex and definitely down a few mouthfulls of chlorinated water.

 

[nickqt]

Dude, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I can tell you though, that I switched to drinking bottled water and my complexion immediately cleared up and I feel a lot better. Not sure why, it could be placebo effect or the fact I'm drinking more water overall.

Might be placebo, might be something else.

Most bottled water is just municipal water.

 

[Blain]

"Chlorine"... What about fluoride in drinking water?

 

[Muse]

Dude, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I can tell you though, that I switched to drinking bottled water and my complexion immediately cleared up and I feel a lot better. Not sure why, it could be placebo effect or the fact I'm drinking more water overall.

Don't know what kind of bottled water you are using but I read online yesterday that a lot of that is from municipal water supplies and has the chlorine. Of course, YMMV depending. Anyway, glad to hear your complexion has cleared up and especially that you feel a lot better! :thumbsup:

 

[Muse]

Water is one of those things that we just have to protect. If you don't want mass quantities of chlorine in your water, then stop dumping garbage, industrial runoff, and sewage straight into the source of where your water comes from. It's as simple as that.

Fact #1 - It's much more costly to purify your water after it's been contaminated than it is to prevent it from contamination altogether.

Fact #2 - Fact #1 is doubly true.

The history of water supply and waste water and other human sewage is dealt with pretty extensively in that 3rd book I mention in the OP, Water 4.0. I'm about 1/4 through the book and it's been a revelation.

 

[Muse]

Guess I'm f'd. I swim twice a week at the sportsplex and definitely down a few mouthfulls of chlorinated water.

From 1985-1995 I swam 2 miles/day, 7 days a week in a community pool (the YMCA). Of course, I didn't swallow much water, but figure I absorbed chlorine. Pools are chlorinated, always, sometimes more than others, of course, but you can sense it. My girlfriend told me that she could always taste/smell chlorine in the tap water around here (thus her refusal to drink it).

AFAIK, chlorine, at least in the form of chlorinated hydrocarbons, are fat soluble and are indefinitely stored in your body fat all over your body. When your body metabolizes body fat, that stuff is processed and your liver has to deal with it. Rachel Carson discussed this in Silent Spring.

 

[Muse]

"Chlorine"... What about fluoride in drinking water?

What about it? AFAIK, it's beneficial. It's required by law. It's in your toothpaste, too, of course.

 

[Muse]

"Chlorine"... What about fluoride in drinking water?

Medical consensus

The fluoridation of public water has been hailed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control as one of the top medical achievements of the 20th century.[30] It is ranked No. 9 on this list ahead of "Recognition of tobacco use as a health hazard."[31]

The American Dental Association calls water fluoridation "one of the safest and most beneficial, cost-effective public health measures for preventing, controlling, and in some cases reversing, tooth decay."[32]

Health Canada supports fluoridation, citing a number of international scientific reviews that indicate "there is no link between any adverse health effects and exposure to fluoride in drinking water at levels that are below the maximum acceptable concentration of 1.5 mg/L."[33]

The World Health Organization says fluoridation is an effective way to prevent tooth decay in poor communities. "In some developed countries, the health and economic benefits of fluoridation may be small, but particularly important in deprived areas, where water fluoridation may be a key factor in reducing inequalities in dental health."[34]

Wikipedia page Water Flouridation Controversy

Some European countries have stopped flouride treatment of drinking water without experiencing increased cavities in the populations, but they have public dental health programs in effect, which is not the case in the USA.

 

[gotsmack]

What about it? AFAIK, it's beneficial. It's required by law. It's in your toothpaste, too, of course.

Not every state fluoridates it's water supply. It's not in every toothpaste.

It's questionable if it really is beneficial. The study they use to prove benefits is like 80 years old and the methodology was questionable. The question I have is that your body uses Calcium Fluoride to repair teeth, why do they put Sodium Fluoride (which the body converts into clacium fluoride) into the water supply?

 

[uclaLabrat]

From 1985-1995 I swam 2 miles/day, 7 days a week in a community pool (the YMCA). Of course, I didn't swallow much water, but figure I absorbed chlorine. Pools are chlorinated, always, sometimes more than others, of course, but you can sense it. My girlfriend told me that she could always taste/smell chlorine in the tap water around here (thus her refusal to drink it).

AFAIK, chlorine, at least in the form of chlorinated hydrocarbons, are fat soluble and are indefinitely stored in your body fat all over your body. When your body metabolizes body fat, that stuff is processed and your liver has to deal with it. Rachel Carson discussed this in Silent Spring.

your body does this as a matter of course, it isn't something to necessarily be alarmed about. Chlorinated hydrocarbons can be toxic or carcinogenic, but you're probably not exposed to them in levels high enough to matter.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Not every state fluoridates it's water supply. It's not in every toothpaste.

It's questionable if it really is beneficial. The study they use to prove benefits is like 80 years old and the methodology was questionable. The question I have is that your body uses Calcium Fluoride to repair teeth, why do they put Sodium Fluoride (which the body converts into clacium fluoride) into the water supply?

Because sodium fluoride is soluble in water, calcium fluoride isn't. And your body doesn't use calcium fluoride to repair teeth, the fluoride ion in water combines with your enamel (hydroxyapatite) to make fluoroapatite, which is much more resistant to degradation by acid and other stuff.

 

[inachu]

water without chlorine:


Girl gives herself a nasal cleanse.... worms eat their way to her brain and she does.

So called water experts now say that we no longer need chlorine.


BULLSHIT you want those worms/nematoads ingesting them?

Now the water pipes will get junk on the inside walls.

We need it. The sick and weak need it. those with weak immunity need chlorine in the water.