Chorus of Islamic followers freak out about Pope's comments

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Aimster
This .1% come from non-Arabs.
I didn't say 100% so my figure is not wrong.

& the main suspect in the Bali bombing had connections to a Saudi terrorist (who planned it).. who is an Arab ... so.....

Good thing you want to quibble over minute details, while ignoring the overall picture.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Speaking of copouts, you failed to interpret my post. You only looked at one aspect of it and determined that I was saying that poverty is to blame for the MidEast's problems. You have to look at the picture fairly and ask yourself some questions. Dig deeper. You say that the "destructive mindset that is manifest there and the Muslim world at large". Tell me about the great buildings and the great progess that is being made in Dubai, Kuwait and the other states nearby. Tell me about the Arab businessmen who have great influence. Are they destructive? And also tell me, why are they not bombing people and why are they not in misery?

Alot of those "Arab businessmen" whom you refer to as shining examples of Muslim prowess are sending vast sums of money each year to secretly support the various centers of Jihad around the world. In fact, some of them are ignorant enough to consider such "donations" to be their mandatory % contribution to charity that is dictated by Islamic law... I'm too lazy to google this, but there are tons of examples to back this up. Not all of them are doing so, of course, but enough of them are doing it to continue funding the wars against us, trust me.

Also, there are more than 140 million muslims in India. You don't see them blowing up people.

uhh, what? You're joking, right?: suspicion fell on two Islamic terrorist groups whose focus has been on the disputed territory of Kashmir -- Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed.

As for Pakistan being created by Britan, I don't know about that. It seemed to me that it was mutual between India and Pakistan at that time and that Britain just nodded. It was clear that hindus and muslims had great animosity and it would have been hard to keep a single state.

The UK arbitrarily drew most of the lines in Central Asia, including the borders of India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan...

read...more...books!

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
This .1% come from non-Arabs.
I didn't say 100% so my figure is not wrong.

& the main suspect in the Bali bombing had connections to a Saudi terrorist (who planned it).. who is an Arab ... so.....

Good thing you want to quibble over minute details, while ignoring the overall picture.

Glad you agree that 99.9% of suicide bombings are from Arabs. 12% of the Muslim population (assuming all Arabs blow themselves up).

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster writes:

"Israel acted too harsh and used excessive force."

Well, it's time that you figured out that war is not a beauty contest.

There are rules to war.
of course you do not know that.

You do not go around bombing apartment buildings .....

unless, of course, your enemies take refuge next to, or inside of, said apartment buildings. In fact, the Law of War clearly states that any structure used as a firing position or refuge by the enemy becomes a valid target. That even goes for hospitals, churches, and yes, apartment buildings!

It's not Israel's fault that the Hezbollah are nothing more than a bunch of f'n panzies who hide behind, amongst, and even in the lap of, women and children.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What right does any american have to decide what is good for Iraq, Afghanistan or Iraq when they have torture prisons, phone tapping and other war crimes in their backyards.

After the WTC incident, one can argue that there was every right to go into Afghanistan; besides, you can hardly argue that people there were living the good life.

Iraq is a different matter, and probably a mistake. Nevertheless, the opportunity to move forward was obviously squandered, and now there is violence due to religious/secterian differences; Iran is also stirring up troubles.

Although more oversight would be a blessing, I don't know what war crimes you're talking about, since the "Al-Qaeda" types aren't wearing a uniform, and even if they did, there's hardly much of a reason to treat them nicely, when they are adamant about murdering civilians wherever possible.

The root cause of the Taliban uprising was the west's neglect towars Afghanistan. Do you support killing anybody who supports Alqaeeda? If so, that does not make you any better than them.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Alaa
The people who did it were Christian!! but we didn't treat our heads like Rocks and we didn't believe that it was coming out of Christianity and so should you!
people are saying Muslims countries are backward. well, the surprise is we don't follow Islam teachings!! ouch!? If you want to know more then go and read Islamic books about Islam teachings and then go to any Arabic country and see the HUGE difference!

Looks like someone needs a history lesson. I suggest you read up more before you continue on that line of reasoning. Both Christians and Muslims participated in "crusades", or perhaps you just forgot that part.

The thing is, it happened 1,000 years ago and nobody denies it was wrong. What radical muslims are doing is happening TODAY!

All the non-sense killing was coming from Christians..anyway this is Muslims extremists era but I am sure it will end soon.

during the crusades?!?! you're joking, right? Which Madras did you attend that sold you THAT load of utter crap!? the "Non-sensical" killing during the crusades was done by EVERYONE, on EVERY side!

But like he said, that was over 1000 years ago. Fanatical Muslims are commiting those same atrocities TODAY! So, while the rest fo the world has managed to progress into the 21st century, including the majority of Muslims, there is a certain %, somewhere between 1-5%, of the modern Muslim population who are still living in the 7th century, or trying to.

It is therefore the responsibility of the remainder of the Muslim population to clean up their own religion and bring the entire religion, as a whole, into the 21st century. That said, they do not appear to be doing so, thus, it is up to the rest of the world to clean up their religion for them, one dead fanatic at a time.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What right does any american have to decide what is good for Iraq, Afghanistan or Iraq when they have torture prisons, phone tapping and other war crimes in their backyards.

After the WTC incident, one can argue that there was every right to go into Afghanistan; besides, you can hardly argue that people there were living the good life.

Iraq is a different matter, and probably a mistake. Nevertheless, the opportunity to move forward was obviously squandered, and now there is violence due to religious/secterian differences; Iran is also stirring up troubles.

Although more oversight would be a blessing, I don't know what war crimes you're talking about, since the "Al-Qaeda" types aren't wearing a uniform, and even if they did, there's hardly much of a reason to treat them nicely, when they are adamant about murdering civilians wherever possible.

The root cause of the Taliban uprising was the west's neglect towars Afghanistan. Do you support killing anybody who supports Alqaeeda? If so, that does not make you any better than them.

so, wait. are you blaming the USA for the rise of the Taliban to power in Afghanistan during the early 1990's? and this is because we did not interfere, right?

So which is it? do you, or do you not, want the US to interfere in the politics of other nations?

hypocricy... ya gotta love it.

And yes, we do very much need to kill everybody who supports Al Qaeda. There is no doubt about that whatsoever. none.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What right does any american have to decide what is good for Iraq, Afghanistan or Iraq when they have torture prisons, phone tapping and other war crimes in their backyards.

After the WTC incident, one can argue that there was every right to go into Afghanistan; besides, you can hardly argue that people there were living the good life.

Iraq is a different matter, and probably a mistake. Nevertheless, the opportunity to move forward was obviously squandered, and now there is violence due to religious/secterian differences; Iran is also stirring up troubles.

Although more oversight would be a blessing, I don't know what war crimes you're talking about, since the "Al-Qaeda" types aren't wearing a uniform, and even if they did, there's hardly much of a reason to treat them nicely, when they are adamant about murdering civilians wherever possible.

The root cause of the Taliban uprising was the west's neglect towars Afghanistan. Do you support killing anybody who supports Alqaeeda? If so, that does not make you any better than them.

so, wait. are you blaming the USA for the rise of the Taliban to power in Afghanistan during the early 1990's? and this is because we did not interfere, right?

So which is it? do you, or do you not, want the US to interfere in the politics of other nations?

hypocricy... ya gotta love it.

And yes, we do very much need to kill everybody who supports Al Qaeda. There is no doubt about that whatsoever. none.

You did interfere by forming the mujahedeen and them leaving Afghanistan to fight a civil war. 9/11 would have never happened if the Soviets had conquered Afghanistan and muslims would probably be better off aswell. Atleast all of us would not have been labelled as potential terrorists.

So what the difference between you and an Alqaeeda supporter? Whats the difference between an innocent civilian that supports Alqaeeda's murders and one that supports Bush's? Talk about hyprcrisy.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
You did interfere by forming the mujahedeen and them leaving Afghanistan to fight a civil war. 9/11 would have never happened if the Soviets had conquered Afghanistan and muslims would probably be better off aswell. Atleast all of us would not have been labelled as potential terrorists.

umm, what?! The U.S. did not "form" the mujahideen you blockhead. they formed themselves. The U.S. simply funneled money, training, and munitions through the Pakistanti ISI -to- the Muj in support of their fight against the Soviets. Trust me, they formed on their own and didn't need our encouragement to do so.

Second, 9/11 had nothing at all to do with the Muj beyond OBL's connection with the Muj 12 years prior. It's simply the time and place wherein he was able to begin forming Al Qaeda. The irony is that Al Qaeda is really a combination of several other fanatical groups who formed around OBL during the 90's and agreed with his intentions to attack the "far enemies of Islam."

The Taliban in Afghanistan meerly gave OBL a suitable home where he could organize and plan for the future... As did Sudan and a few other locales prior.

Nobody can say that the defeat of the Soviets led directly to 9/11, and nobody can say that our support of the Muj led directly to 9/11.

OBL and his precious Al Qaeda have always been a completely seperate animal.

So what the difference between you and an Alqaeeda supporter? Whats the difference between an innocent civilian that supports Alqaeeda's murders and one that supports Bush's? Talk about hyprcrisy.

What's the difference? WE DONT TARGET AND CELEBRATE THE DEATH OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS! It's that simple. So yes, while we may kill civlians along the way, it is never our intention to do so. If you cannot recognize this fundamental difference between us and them, then you need to wake up.

read...more...books. Start with Ghost Wars - by Steve Coll, and go from there... you might just learn something.

For instance, did you know that none of the money, training, or arms that we funneled through Pakistan went to OBL? Or are you one of the ignorant masses who believes that we supported him directly? In your reading, you'll learn how the the Pakistani ISI distributed the funds and arms according to their own agenda. You'll learn that OBL wasnt much liked by the ISI because he refused to fight for their agenda and on their terms. (He also didnt need our money.. he had plenty of his own coming directly from his Arab supporters) You'll also learn that OBL was basically a financier and nothing more, until very late in the war when he fought in one large battle.

Last, you'll learn about the large % of Muj who later fought against OBL and the Taliban. In fact, a large number of our greatest supporters within Afghanistan, to this very day, were Muj who fought against the Soviets and later against the Taliban.

like I said, read...more...books!

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
You did interfere by forming the mujahedeen and them leaving Afghanistan to fight a civil war. 9/11 would have never happened if the Soviets had conquered Afghanistan and muslims would probably be better off aswell. Atleast all of us would not have been labelled as potential terrorists.

Better a la Chechnya and the Beslan massacre?

EDIT: I just wanted to reiterate how dumb that statement is -- that they would've been better off under the soviets; a quick search about the USSR yielded this. I'm sure that someone more versed with USSR history can shed more light on how good life was under the commies, but with around 60 million murdered it is very hard to argue that they would've been better off.

 

[Bushman5]

i saw we march on jerusalem take that mother ****** back

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
But like he said, that was over 1000 years ago. Fanatical Muslims are commiting those same atrocities TODAY! So, while the rest fo the world has managed to progress into the 21st century, including the majority of Muslims, there is a certain %, somewhere between 1-5%, of the modern Muslim population who are still living in the 7th century, or trying to.

It is therefore the responsibility of the remainder of the Muslim population to clean up their own religion and bring the entire religion, as a whole, into the 21st century. That said, they do not appear to be doing so, thus, it is up to the rest of the world to clean up their religion for them, one dead fanatic at a time.

partially agree.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Wow, so there are protests by Muslims because the pope suggested that Islam is a terrible religion...what a shocker! He's as stupid as the rest of you dumbasses..."Islam" does not freak out, or insult people, or terrorize the west, SOME Muslims do, and turning around and lumping them all together under the banner of things their religion supposedly does is almost certainly going to piss off the more moderate Muslims. If the Muslims protesting haven't done anything "evil and inhuman", they have every right to be angry.

I swear, it's like you guys are TRYING to start a holy war here or something...what the hell is wrong with you?

I agree with this statement, and frankly, I am beginning to wonder about some people on this (Christian) side of the fence. I think some really do WANT to start a holy war (not one they'll fight in of course).


Fred Barnes, a partisan zealot of the worst variety, and co-editor (with Bill Kristol) of the Weekly Standard was talking about how this thing is a "Crusade" that he wants to "win."


****** that ******. I'll fight for the United States
, but I will not fight a rehash of another Christian versus Islam struggle. I'll move to Brazil.

 

[Wiktor]

To avoid confusion maybe it'd be better instead of talking about Islam or Muslims or Arabs to say radical sects within Islam and their supporters. Now those exist and that's a fact. In addition to that there are, as it is apparent today, large numbers of mildly violent protesters who perhaps don't understand Islam as much as they'd like to think. On top of that there are those which we would call religious leaders (whatever their formal title or role) that don't do enough to steer their faithful in the right direction (they have their own reasons - not necessarily supporting radical sects - usually political or populist).
I don't understand why the Pope chose to quote that emperor but then I didn't read his whole speech and therefore don't know if he quoted that to agree or disagree with it (why else would he quote it?)

 

[johnnobts]

The Muslim community is just proving his remarks to be true. Its not just that they're unaccepting of others' beliefs (which is fine, Christians don't accept other religious teachings either, its OK to be exclusivist in your faith), they are truly intolerant of Christians and other faith groups. A violent, hateful people driven by a violent, hateful ideology.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Yeah, I was about to post this as well... here's another link:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlene...2_RTRUKOC_0_US-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM.xml

I hope that Rome finally takes a stand, and the rest of Christianity follows, including the Orthodox and the Protestants... it's about time to let barbarians know that the West is tired of their lack of respect for basic human values.

We're too busy fighting amongst ourselves and making excuses for our enemies. We will, sadly, not stand to face them for what is right.

Instead the fear of violence they strike into the world has us apologizing for anything they wish us to apologize over. They smell weakness in the form of fear, and will seize advantage over that.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What right does any american have to decide what is good for Iraq, Afghanistan or Iraq when they have torture prisons, phone tapping and other war crimes in their backyards.

After the WTC incident, one can argue that there was every right to go into Afghanistan; besides, you can hardly argue that people there were living the good life.

Iraq is a different matter, and probably a mistake. Nevertheless, the opportunity to move forward was obviously squandered, and now there is violence due to religious/secterian differences; Iran is also stirring up troubles.

Although more oversight would be a blessing, I don't know what war crimes you're talking about, since the "Al-Qaeda" types aren't wearing a uniform, and even if they did, there's hardly much of a reason to treat them nicely, when they are adamant about murdering civilians wherever possible.

The root cause of the Taliban uprising was the west's neglect towars Afghanistan. Do you support killing anybody who supports Alqaeeda? If so, that does not make you any better than them.

No it wasn't. This attitude that the West can control events like this is so self-centered and foolish. By all indications (to me so far, if you can show differently, do so) the mujahideen took our support and did what they were going to do anyway. Western style secular democracy may simply be flatly incompatible with the disparate and complex Afghan population.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
What right does any american have to decide what is good for Iraq, Afghanistan or Iraq when they have torture prisons, phone tapping and other war crimes in their backyards.

After the WTC incident, one can argue that there was every right to go into Afghanistan; besides, you can hardly argue that people there were living the good life.

Iraq is a different matter, and probably a mistake. Nevertheless, the opportunity to move forward was obviously squandered, and now there is violence due to religious/secterian differences; Iran is also stirring up troubles.

Although more oversight would be a blessing, I don't know what war crimes you're talking about, since the "Al-Qaeda" types aren't wearing a uniform, and even if they did, there's hardly much of a reason to treat them nicely, when they are adamant about murdering civilians wherever possible.

The root cause of the Taliban uprising was the west's neglect towars Afghanistan. Do you support killing anybody who supports Alqaeeda? If so, that does not make you any better than them.

No it wasn't. This attitude that the West can control events like this is so self-centered and foolish. By all indications (to me so far, if you can show differently, do so) the mujahideen took our support and did what they were going to do anyway. Western style secular democracy may simply be flatly incompatible with the disparate and complex Afghan population.

Most likely at this time anyway. Afghanistan is really a loose grouping of local States within a No Mans land rather than a Nation. Pretty close to a true Anarchy. Democracy would still likely work within Afghanistan, but only on some local levels. Bringing it Nationally can only work if it's tried though, maybe in time other parts will join in.

 

[imported_dna]

Well, I guess it was due sooner or later:

Somali cleric calls for pope's death

A HARDLINE cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: dna
Well, I guess it was due sooner or later:

Somali cleric calls for pope's death

A HARDLINE cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam.

But...but....I thought...

 

[Orsorum]

Oh, please, Christianity and Judaism have always supported and encouraged their own holy warriors, throughout history. For the pope to say something so inane is just posturing.

 

[BassBomb]

islam FTW

born and raised

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
islam FTW

born and raised

win what? is there some sort of contest for our souls that we dont know about? because, if so, you'll all lose, and those of us who dont believe in organizaed religion will rule this world... as we should.

ALL of your damn organized religions are f*cking this world up... and have been for thousands of years.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
Oh, please, Christianity and Judaism have always supported and encouraged their own holy warriors, throughout history. For the pope to say something so inane is just posturing.

Perhaps, but that was 1,000 years ago. Besides, the Pope's speech doesn't seem to be such a big deal, but you can count on Islamist everywhere to get offended. The BBC has excerpts, as well as the complete speech. Nothing really inflammatory in the excerpts, unless you are already programmed to react.

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: BassBomb
islam FTW

born and raised

win what? is there some sort of contest for our souls that we dont know about? because, if so, you'll all lose, and those of us who dont believe in organizaed religion will rule this world... as we should.

ALL of your damn organized religions are f*cking this world up... and have been for thousands of years.

did hetler believe in any religion?