Chris Wallace gets schooled on gun control

[urvile]

To be honest I enjoy shooting as a recreational activity an over/under shotgun and some clay pigeons is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon. I just don't think that arming teachers is a solution to school massacres but I don't live in the states. So.....

 

[Pipeline 1010]

LOL I only fight with intelligent people capable of making good points and engaging in civil debate, not ignorant trolls.

Throughout history, honorable and valiant men have fought against trolls and have not backed down. At the Alamo, our patriots fought against the trolls lead by Santa Ana. They easily could have surrendered like you have. During WW2, our heroes fought against the Nazi and Imperialist Japanese trolls. Surrender, inaction, and ignoring these evil dudes was an option. Is this your choice? Get back in the fight. There are literally people arguing that your kids should literally have nobody to defend them. Do not ignore them. These same people argue that only cops should be allowed to fight the bad guys but then argue that cops are pussbags who can't fight and are too incompetent to train people to defend our kids and therefore we simply can't protect our kids. They are so scared of guns they will ban good guys from having them in attempt to spite the bad guys from having them.

Watch this and regrow your balls, soldier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpH5L8zCtSk&list=PLgOJiVuqBx7YziLU4EkAd6LVpsr7mnDfO

 

[Pipeline 1010]

To be honest I enjoy shooting as a recreational activity an over/under shotgun and some clay pigeons is a pleasant way to spend an afternoon. I just don't think that arming teachers is a solution to school massacres but I don't live in the states. So.....

Does an armed teacher have a better chance to protect their kids in a shooting event than an unarmed teacher?

 

[jackstar7]

Does an armed teacher have a better chance to protect their kids in a shooting event than an unarmed teacher?

Probably not. You might remember that the walls were drywall in the Parkland incident. Bullets could hit anyone without even knowing the shooter was there.

Also, given the infrequency of shootings vs the risks of having a gun around children, why add guns?

 

[urvile]

Does an armed teacher have a better chance to protect their kids in a shooting event than an unarmed teacher?

Yes. it's better than nothing. However I question whether it will have the effectiveness claimed.

 

[Victorian Gray]

полезный идиот

Every time you scratch a progressive a totalitarian fascist bleeds.

 

[ultimatebob]

Pics or it's bullshit. Seriously where the hell are you seeing Trump signs in neighborhoods anymore? Time machine much?

Why would the signs be out NOW? It’s not school budget season OR election season. This all happened over the last two years, although I’m sure I can still find a few people with Trump signs in my neighborhood even now.

 

[pmv]

Suicide SHOULD be included in gun deaths. So you're saying that in states like AZ, WY, and AK, everyone is just committing suicide there and not murdering anyone? It's not a deliberate false chart, you just don't like it because it shows the truth.

Probably best to keep suicide and homicide figures distinct, though. Both are important, both are affected by availability of guns, but nevertheless they are different moral issues. People tend to be accepting of much stronger restrictions to avoid the latter than the former. Hence even countries that ban guns don't ban over-the-counter medications that can be used for suicide, they just restrict them slightly.

(Same thing with national self-harm. The rest of the world has a lot more moral and practical incentive to respond forcefully to countries that attack others than to countries that have collective mental-health issues causing them to decide to injure themselves with weird political choices. Speaking purely hypothetically.)

Does an armed teacher have a better chance to protect their kids in a shooting event than an unarmed teacher?

Not so much of a difference as to justify the downsides, I'd say. For the armed teacher to make a difference there would have to be an armed teacher there that one time a shooter goes on a spree in that particular school (not all teachers would be prepared to be armed, and in some cases the one armed teacher might be dropped from a distance before they even know the shooter is there, they might be the first one shot) and that teacher would have to actually respond effectively (the majority probably would not, looking at real-world examples).

Set against that would be all the times when something went wrong and the teacher themselves was the one who went nuts, or when the gun goes off due to the teacher's incompetence at gun-handling, or when somehow a student gets hold of the gun. Also set against it has to be the very-hard-to-quantify effects of taking such a further step to normalise guns and further expand the lobby against restricting them.

Weirdly, this reminds me of arguments about bicycle helmet laws. You have to compare practical effects in very narrowly-defined circumstances ('if someone hits you over the head with a steel bar would you rather have a helmet or not?'), versus much harder-to-quantify wider social effects ('what message does such a law send to bad drivers about the burden of responsibility for victims vs perpetrators, and what does it do to cycling rates and hence to rates of heart-disease and pollution-related deaths?'). There's often such an asymmetry between easy-to-grasp effects in very specific situations vs much more distributed large-scale consequences.

 

[zinfamous]

The amount of retard in this thread is astounding. I would try to reply to each idiotic and outright ignorant statement but it would take hours.

The guns are just tools.

I know, right? Just this last weekend I used my 1911 to hammer together the frame for the bench in my new breakfast nook. Tools with many uses!

 

[cmdrdredd]

They’re willing to pay for their own training?

Lots of places are offering teachers who are allowed to carry free training.

 

[cmdrdredd]

And I'd politely say "No thanks" to people who want to personally be twitchy around my kids with their guns. They can fuck off back to their little internet militias and youtube comment sections.

Guess what you probably pass by more concealed carriers in the mall, Walmart, or on the street than you can count. So tell us some more about twitchy people.

 

[momeNt]

The calabrian mafia* is pretty bad. They were blowing people up with car bombs etc. I fail to see what this has to do with gun ownership though. Yes criminals still have access to guns here but they always have and always will. They use them on each other anyway. Low level criminals cannot get firearms. The average citizen can still own as many firearms as they like just not semi automatics. People seem to miss that distinction.

*I watched a documentary (actually it was investigative journalism but whatever) on them and the hardcore dudes actually came from calabria to establish their operations in aus. There was this one guy who was a green grocer and looked like your typical middle aged dad. He was one of their most feared enforcers in aus. He was the primary suspect in multiple murders and never convicted of any crime. Smart and extremely violent. Scary dude.

Given the multiple red flags ignored by the Broward County sheriff, and the recent thwarted school shooting by the grandmother reading her grandson's journals, do you think that vigilance is an acceptable alternative to what is essentially a repeal of one of America's Bill of Rights? Given that criminals will always have guns, and they usually use them on eachother anyways, they don't seem to be a concerning stat generally, so what people particularly care about is mass murder, which, as Broward's Sheriff office is realizing, and the rest of the USA, have red flags that civilians notice enough to report to the police. Terrorists already seem to prefer rental trucks and IEDs, so we are trying to focus on the 100-140 murders a year attributed to mass shootings. Is the stroke too broad for Americans and their Bill of Rights? I know it is was Australia did, but Australia hasn't had the culture that the USA has had concerning guns and freedom.

 

[fskimospy]

Lots of places are offering teachers who are allowed to carry free training.

So in other words they are expending resources that could be used to educate children on training teachers to carry weapons despite there being no evidence of this being an effective school safety policy. Considering the fact that we know having a gun in the home is a net negative for personal safety it’s reasonably likely the same is true for additional guns in schools.

Seems smart.

 

[brandonbull]

No he won't, because those people want public schools to fail (they might claim they don't and might even seriously believe it, but their actions are leading to that; and many of them are massively more in favor of private schools - nevermind how few of them would float if they hadn't been allowed to start taking advantage of the same stuff that public schools do - including funding). They're licking their lips at possibly adding more financial burden for already barely treading water schools. This lets them keep believing that "gang banger" bullshit that they tried to basically say public schools are overrun by that led to so much of their other nonsense (to be fair, they were able to get Democrats on board back when Democrats were trying to keep a unified centrist America thinking that was the best path while the Republicans started going insane on just about every topic). "See! See? We were right all along! Its the drugs and video games and porn and violent and sexualized movies and TV! And the glorification of thuggery by rap! Rap is now even more mainstream and see how its led to these school shooters!"



No shit. Its that people there take a massively more reasonable and rational approach to guns. They don't have a fucking political group intentionally stirring up political shit to sell more guns. That they sell by literally fetishizing them to fucking idiots that they have brainwashed by trying to keep all research on gun violence clamped down on and intentionally spread FUD to in order to get them whipped up so they buy more fucking guns that they can then use to threaten anyone who questions them.

Oh, and FYI the NRA and defense companies (they overlap a lot, the NRA is basically just the consumer arm of the defense industry, who lived up to Eisenhower's warnings) are also responsible for providing a lot of the guns causing problems elsewhere (or working to prevent things being done about them in places where they are such a problem). They don't give a fuck about anything but making money for themselves. It is as simple as that.

Get rid of the NRA (literally just the NRA and their propaganda and stop giving the psychopaths that the NRA lets lead and influence others), and you'll see a huuuuuuge change in America. The NRA is a big reason why Republicans have lost their goddamned minds, as it is the method that a lot of the batshit conspiracy garbage ended up actually getting to public representatives (and how many of the most batshit people ended up in government). It is a perfect example of what allowing lobbying and monetary influence on government leads to. This does assume that by "get rid of the NRA" you basically ban defense contractors from peddling their shit to anyone other than outright military (and even then, go to serious lengths to limit their foreign influence as well; no that won't solve issues elsewhere as Russia/China/others will happily fill in the gap, but at least we can stop being the reason for so much shit), so that they don't just recreated the NRA. Yes, wishful thinking, but we have been able to at times restore sanity to our country, so we can possibly do so again.

Because the NRA generates the "gun fetish" and not just about every movie or video game produced by industries dominated by Liberals?

 

[jackstar7]

Guess what you probably pass by more concealed carriers in the mall, Walmart, or on the street than you can count. So tell us some more about twitchy people.

The people who WANT to patrol a school with their guns waiting for a shooter -- you don't think there's something suspect there? Okie doke. Ignore that a shooter is never going to come and they are going to get bored and frustrated (rather than having the mindset of "Hey! It's working!").

But keep 'em away from my kids. Thank you.

Also, that is bullshit about concealed carriers. If it was true, why would there ever be crime? Why would a criminal dare to engage someone who "probably" has a gun on them? Wait, are guns not a deterrent for crime?

 

[zinfamous]

Throughout history, honorable and valiant men have fought against trolls and have not backed down. At the Alamo, our patriots fought against the trolls lead by Santa Ana. They easily could have surrendered like you have. During WW2, our heroes fought against the Nazi and Imperialist Japanese trolls. Surrender, inaction, and ignoring these evil dudes was an option. Is this your choice? Get back in the fight. There are literally people arguing that your kids should literally have nobody to defend them. Do not ignore them. These same people argue that only cops should be allowed to fight the bad guys but then argue that cops are pussbags who can't fight and are too incompetent to train people to defend our kids and therefore we simply can't protect our kids. They are so scared of guns they will ban good guys from having them in attempt to spite the bad guys from having them.

Watch this and regrow your balls, soldier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpH5L8zCtSk&list=PLgOJiVuqBx7YziLU4EkAd6LVpsr7mnDfO

Are you actually this fucking stupid?

 

[zinfamous]

Because the NRA generates the "gun fetish" and not just about every movie or video game produced by industries dominated by Liberals?

love it! Now it's the liberals' fault for conservatives and their gun fetish! You are an entertaining sort, brandonbull.

 

[desy]

Well ther is something about the glorification of guns and violence. I remember a case study where in a isolated mountain town didn't get TV etc until decades after the 50's so they could actually see what happens when that culture was introduced. Shortly and significantly crime and violence went up. You can't see a boob on TV but you can watch somebody machine gun down another human anytime you want. However a responsible gun owner has been proven to, at least in Canada, have lower incident of suicide and gun crime per capita compared to the GenPop, yes registered gun owners commit less gun crime with 100% more access than non. No surprise cause if you are willing to go through the vetting process you are responsible probably in all areas of life not just in firearms ownership.

 

[Meghan54]

Well ther is something about the glorification of guns and violence. I remember a case study where in a isolated mountain town didn't get TV etc until decades after the 50's so they could actually see what happens when that culture was introduced. Shortly and significantly crime and violence went up. You can't see a boob on TV but you can watch somebody machine gun down another human anytime you want. However a responsible gun owner has been proven to, at least in Canada, have lower incident of suicide and gun crime per capita compared to the GenPop, yes registered gun owners commit less gun crime with 100% more access than non. No surprise cause if you are willing to go through the vetting process you are responsible probably in all areas of life not just in firearms ownership.

Don't you get it yet? America is soooo uniquely different from every other country in the world that solutions to problems that do work elsewhere certainly cannot be put into place in the U.S.

Oh, and if you can't fix everything at once, why try to fix anything?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Does an armed teacher have a better chance to protect their kids in a shooting event than an unarmed teacher?

Absolutely and what's more most of these teachers, administrators and other staff already have their firearms, some training and a concealed carry license.

 

[soundforbjt]

Absolutely and what's more most of these teachers, administrators and other staff already have their firearms, some training and a concealed carry license.

Citation needed

 

[imported_tajmahal]

16,000,000 + concealed carry permits issued. Active police and retired police don't need a CCP. The numbers indicate to me that the pool of CC is plenty adequate for the situation.
https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

Citation needed

 

[jackstar7]

Citation needed

Many people are saying.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Big momentum keeps rolling along.
http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article202341909.html

 

[brandonbull]

love it! Now it's the liberals' fault for conservatives and their gun fetish! You are an entertaining sort, brandonbull.

So is it the conservatives or the liberals shooting people?