Chris Wallace gets schooled on gun control

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
No pun intended.


https://youtu.be/x-okjSLPqSU?t=14m00s

I believe the answer is better security at schools. Just like what this man is saying. Taking the guns away won't stop anything. We can raise the age limit to 21, but that means a 22 year old buys a gun and commits a mass murder. Banning bump stocks makes sense though. And about this mental health thing. I don't think the school shooter even visited a psychologist. So how do we identify the people that shouldn't have a gun based on this mental health fitness requirement? They will just slip through the cracks. There are so many law enforcement failures here it ain't even funny. It's pathetic.
So more guns/law enforcement will solve the problem? Go do some research on the worst school shooting in the countries history. That school had 50 permanent police officers on campus along with 20 security guards.

Law enforcement in schools cannot be the first and last lines of defense.
 
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momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
You never even watched the video. I just made this post. Way to thread crap.

And I guess you don't know about Chicago's gun problems despite the fact they have very strict gun laws. Chicago is a perfect example as to why gun laws that curtail the 2nd Amendment DO NOT WORK! Just like these asinine gun safe zones. How stuoid is that!

Preface - Pro 2A, pro Shall not infringe, PERIOD, but I understand facts....

Chicago has mostly criminal gun violence, meaning people are criminals before they even purchase the gun, it is not impulsive, like a simple domestic violence murder, or insanely premeditated from otherwise non-criminal people, aka Sandy Hook, Florida, or Las Vegas. Guns travel from Wisconsin and Indiana through criminal straw purchases, to make their way to Chicago gangs to help rack up the body count.

That is not to say that even a better criminal background check system will alleviate Chicago's problem. Chicago's problem is essentially an organized crime problem. These are resourceful criminals that are already committing crimes just to purchase the guns in the first place. The technology is at a point where you can basically already manufacture an AR-15 without ever needing to even pass a criminal background check. You mill out your lower, and equip it with a parts kit (this is now a firearm, and should have an ATF form filled out BEFORE even doing it) and equip it with an upper (completely legal to purchase without a background check, it will likely remain that way even if they pass more serious laws). So guns are going to keep coming into Chicago regardless, until they take care of their "relatively"-organized crime problem.

Criminals will always have guns, they have the resources at this point to basically be making them from scratch. In the early 1900s and prior, firearms were more or less pieces of craftsmanship, The AK, AR, and Glock have pretty much changed that forever, they have made them simple enough now that mass-production is pretty trivial. Just look at how many small AR shops have popped up post AWB sunset.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Oh crap...is this what happens when any entity outside of the NRA is allowed to conduct research into gun murder?

You can draw a line between Virginia and Maryland and they hopscotch on either side of that line. I'm not a statistician, but I doubt there is a very high degree of confidence that you can relate strictness to gun deaths.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Preface - Pro 2A, pro Shall not infringe, PERIOD, but I understand facts....

Criminals will always have guns, they have the resources at this point to basically be making them from scratch. In the early 1900s and prior, firearms were more or less pieces of craftsmanship, The AK, AR, and Glock have pretty much changed that forever, they have made them simple enough now that mass-production is pretty trivial. Just look at how many small AR shops have popped up post AWB sunset.
Why was Australia able to figure it out?
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Why was Australia able to figure it out?

Do you think that Australia has even a remotely similar nature of criminal underworld? How was Australia's mob problem in the 20s thru 70s? Was that pretty similar to the USA so that we could maybe draw a parallel there? No?
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
You can draw a line between Virginia and Maryland and they hopscotch on either side of that line. I'm not a statistician, but I doubt there is a very high degree of confidence that you can relate strictness to gun deaths.

Canada Japan England Australia Scotland Germany

But because we for some odd reason, the sheep are suckling on the NRA tit, why for they are a puny 5 million out of 300+ million. The answer is so obvious, gun regulations, they work. The answer is not some fucking wild west scenario where everyone has a gun. But the few are afraid. THE FEW! why do we listen to them?
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Do you think that Australia has even a remotely similar nature of criminal underworld? How was Australia's mob problem in the 20s thru 70s? Was that pretty similar to the USA so that we could maybe draw a parallel there? No?
What makes you think human beings are vastly different from one country to another. Also it isn't the mob going around committing mass killings.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
What makes you think human beings are vastly different from one country to another. Also it isn't the mob going around committing mass killings.

Oh, I wasn't referring to mass killings, they account for 100-140 deaths per year at the most, if we want feel good legislation then yes it probably will work, and it will not make a dent in any of the inner city gang crime because these are professionals and they are committed to protecting their interests.

Canada Japan England Australia Scotland Germany

But because we for some odd reason, the sheep are suckling on the NRA tit, why for they are a puny 5 million out of 300+ million. The answer is so obvious, gun regulations, they work. The answer is not some fucking wild west scenario where everyone has gun. But the few are afraid. THE FEW! why do we listen to them?

So uhh... why can't we show a high degree of correlation between strict gun laws in USA from state to state? Honestly, I am not sure our gun crime would closely mirror the developed world's gun crime post-strict gun control.

We might continue with high gun crime similar to any number of South American countries after they enacted gun control. When criminals make up a large portion of your gun violence, gun control doesn't work that well.

It will definitely help the bullied-aspies that commit mass murders at schools though, I don't even think there is a point in trying to argue against that.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Oh, I wasn't referring to mass killings, they account for 100-140 deaths per year at the most, if we want feel good legislation then yes it probably will work, and it will not make a dent in any of the inner city gang crime because these are professionals and they are committed to protecting their interests.
Never dawned on you Austrailia's changes would have failed if they only enacted in Northern Australia
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Never dawned on you Austrailia's changes would have failed if they only enacted in Northern Australia

So do you think perhaps that we need to perhaps have similar levels of gun control down the entire drug chain to South America? Colombia has stricter gun control laws than the USA but like 5x the gun crime, but there's a small chance that the packages of cocaine might also come with a complimentary gun in order to secure safe distribution for their gangs.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
So do you think perhaps that we need to perhaps have similar levels of gun control down the entire drug chain to South America? Colombia has stricter gun control laws than the USA but like 5x the gun crime, but there's a small chance that the packages of cocaine might also come with a complimentary gun in order to secure safe distribution for their gangs.

Colombia is not the USA , it has lots of other problems but we are heading that way.

Explain Canada Japan England Australia Scotland Germany.
 

Cr0nJ0b

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2004
1,141
29
91
meettomy.site
The solution is simple. We have the US government supply handguns to schools. Every able bodied student would be trained in the effective use of firearms as a mandatory class. It would take the place of something like art class or music, something unimportant like that. The teachers would be supplied with fully automatic M16 or equivalent and they would also be trained. You can't make it mandatory, but just tie firearm training to say bonus or salary hikes...they'll fall in line. So, here's how it works. Everyday, when the students arrive, they either present their weapon or go to the armory to pick up their weapon for the day. This insures that everyone on campus is armed ready to fight at a moments notice. Think of the lives that we could save. gun laws don't make you safe, only guns can make you safe.
 
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Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
The solution is simple. We have the US government supply handguns to schools. Every able bodied student would be trained in the effective use of firearms as a mandatory class. It would take the place of something like art class or music, something unimportant like that. The teachers would be supplied with fully automatic M16 or equivalent and they would also be trained. You can't make it mandatory, but just tie firearm training to say bonus or salary hikes...they'll fall in line. So, here's how it works. Everyday, when the students arrive, they either present their weapon or go to the armory to pick up their weapon for the day. This insures that everyone on campus is armed ready to fight at a moments notice. Think of the lives that we could save. gun laws don't make you safe, only guns can make you safe.

This has to be sarcasm? please tell us it is.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Colombia is not the USA , it has lots of other problems but we are heading that way.

Explain Canada Japan England Australia Scotland Germany.

There isn't much to explain. They have low violent gun crime and strict gun laws. What will be interesting to see in the next few years is how Czech Republic gun statistics start to change as they adopt a more gun-friendly culture. Currently it is relatively easy - compared to EU standards - to get a firearm in Czech Republic, and they enjoy pretty low firearm violence.

I'm not trying to equate Colombia to the USA. I am just saying that Australia is an island, and we argue that Chicago doesn't have low gun violence because of guns crossing borders. Well when the USA enacts EU level gun restrictions, what is to stop guns flowing across borders? We already know tons of drugs enter the USA every day, all of which are illegal, will we fare better in a war on guns than we do in the war on drugs?
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's their choice. I only get angry when they try to take others with them.

Well, yeh, but that's because you're an asshole. Highly fashionable in some Conservative circles, apparently. Despondent people killing themselves is often a hardship for surviving family members. Maybe you can whip a guilt trip on 'em to really drive it home.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
2,064
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Well, yeh, but that's because you're an asshole. Highly fashionable in some Conservative circles, apparently. Despondent people killing themselves is often a hardship for surviving family members. Maybe you can whip a guilt trip on 'em to really drive it home.
You're a sanctimonious, self righteous little prick and why would I try to lay a guilt trip on anyone? That's what you try to do.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
Well, yeh, but that's because you're an asshole. Highly fashionable in some Conservative circles, apparently. Despondent people killing themselves is often a hardship for surviving family members. Maybe you can whip a guilt trip on 'em to really drive it home.

Don't feed the troll, we have to starve him out.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You're a sanctimonious, self righteous little prick and why would I try to lay a guilt trip on anyone? That's what you try to do.

Doubling down on extremely insensitive & callous remarks doesn't make you less of an asshole. It makes you a *flaming* asshole.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
I'm kind of wondering who they expect to pay for all of this extra school security that people are proposing.

As it is, it already takes three rounds of voting to get a school budget passed in my town. I can only imagine what the "No" voters would think of a half million dollar property tax increase to pay for metal detectors and armed security guards.
 
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