Christian and Athiest in the same house!

[MarxUNR]

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[hemiram]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: DurocShark
As some of you may know, I'm an athiest and my wife is Christian. We've always respected each others beliefs, and agreed to let the kids decide for themselves their own beliefs.

The past few years my 14 year old son has been leaning towards athiesm. I don't encourage it, but will answer questions as fairly as possible.

My 2.5 year old daughter has been going to church with my wife nearly every day (my wife does child care at her church for 2-3 hours per day). So my daughter's being thoroughly indoctrinated. I don't complain. She'll find her own way when she's old enough.

Well, lately my wife has been trying to get our son to go to church and participate in the teen ministry's events. Yesterday he finally said, "Why would I want to go listen to a bunch of people worshipping their fantasies?" I had to leave the room. That was a great line! But I didn't want to make my wife look like a fool by laughing.

So last night my wife started yelling at me about his athiesm and how it's my fault. WTF? I asked, "How is that different than our daughter coming home singing Christian songs and you hanging Christian propaganda all over the house? Do you see any Darwin posters anywhere? Do you hear me quoting from athiest writings? YOU'RE the one pushing your beliefs on the kids."

It quickly became one of those times where she starts yelling and screaming and I sit there letting her vent before replying, then listening to more.

Anybody dealt with this before? Any suggestions?

CLIFFS:
I'm athiest, wife's Christian.
One child is becoming athiest and expressing it.
Wife blames me.

Why is that a great line? Why do you care so much?

Using your children as tools for your passive-aggressive nonsense with your wife is sickening. Your wife is right... you are making trouble and your children see this.

Atheists are full of it. If they really believe God didn't exist they wouldn't care at all... instead they are as adamant as a Muslim Imam in forcing their belief system on others.

Where are all these atheists forcing anything? I tend, like all the other atheists I know, with two exceptions, tend to keep quiet about my beliefs, or lack of belief, whatever way you want to put it. I know several churchgoers that are actually atheists, but go to church to prevent their christian relatives (almost always, it's mom) from going off the deep end about it. I wouldn't do that, I knew it was umm..baloney when I was a small kid, and found out the hard way what happens when you tell someone, the wrong someone, such as my grandmother, what you thought about it. That was over 40 years ago, and I still remember the reaming she gave me. My mom forced me and my sister to go to church just to keep peace with her mom, who was truly an intimidating person. When she died, the hassles stopped and my mom let us sleep on Sunday.

The couple who really tell it like it is have had a never ending series of hassles from both sets of their parents, letters saying they are going to hell, religious literature coming in the mail, remarks made to the kids, taking them to church when staying with gramdma and grandpa. One of the mothers scared the youngest daughter half out of her mind by telling her that mommy and daddy were going to hell when they die, and that they have to believe in Jesus to keep from going there. This was on the way home from church, where the minister ranted and raved about burning in hell forever in his sermon.

We just don't want your superstitions shoved down our throats, that's all. Keep it in your home, and private schools, and we will too. It's simple.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

You are a tard.

I do not follow the bible in it's literal sense. It has parts that say "eye for eye" and "turn the other cheek".

Go ahead, teach me my religion you moron.

lol... oh, I'm sorry... I didn't realize that the verse I provided was metaphorical... maybe you can tell me what that verse really means?

What part of "I do not follow the bible in it's literal sense" are you having problems understanding?

I still don't think you are the sharpest tool in the shed.

More insults from the Christian... how nice.

So then explain how you follow the bible. I'm almost curious now. I assumed one could only interpret things literally or metaphorically. Personally, if I were Christian and Jesus told me to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation," I would probably do it.

Maybe I'll convert to this new denomination of laissez-faire Christianity. :laugh:

I'm just happy you know more about my religion than I do!

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

You are a tard.

I do not follow the bible in it's literal sense. It has parts that say "eye for eye" and "turn the other cheek".

Go ahead, teach me my religion you moron.

lol... oh, I'm sorry... I didn't realize that the verse I provided was metaphorical... maybe you can tell me what that verse really means?

Hahaha, trying to make sense of the bible = priceless.

:laugh:

Psst, he was laughing at you.

Eh? Seems to me he was laughing at attempts to make sense of the bible... and I wasn't trying to make sense of the bible... maybe I need to put a /sarcasm tag on that other post...

I was laughing at anyone trying to decipher meanings from the bible because it contradicts itself sooo many places. And not to mention enterpretation.
And laughing at people in general that believes that god impregnated a chick (and not her husband) and that Jeebus walked on the water. Imo you need to be locked up if you actually believe that (in a mental institute, not because i consider it a crime).

In short, you believe because of the bible, but the bible was written by different people, with different opinions, about a made up rumour, in a period notoriously crowded with self proclaimed miracle people (Imagine it like Life of Brian, where preachers were on every street corner, Jesus just got lucky by being picked(Note: I do not deny the existance of jesus, but we know how feathers turn to chickens, and after a few hundred years he walks on water).

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

You are a tard.

I do not follow the bible in it's literal sense. It has parts that say "eye for eye" and "turn the other cheek".

Go ahead, teach me my religion you moron.

lol... oh, I'm sorry... I didn't realize that the verse I provided was metaphorical... maybe you can tell me what that verse really means?

Hahaha, trying to make sense of the bible = priceless.

:laugh:

Psst, he was laughing at you.

Eh? Seems to me he was laughing at attempts to make sense of the bible... and I wasn't trying to make sense of the bible... maybe I need to put a /sarcasm tag on that other post...

Maybe you need to wake the fvck up and realize that Christianity does not equal whatever part of the bible you feel like quoting.

I have told you several times now that the bible is not all that Christianity is about but you simply don't listen.

 

[MarxUNR]

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[Forsythe]

Maybe you need to wake the fvck up and realize that Christianity does not equal whatever part of the bible you feel like quoting.
I have told you several times now that the bible is not all that Christianity is about but you simply don't listen.

But don't you believe because of the bible? You just take what you want and add water?
Would that even qualify as christianity?

I do believe jesus existed, and i believe he stood for the "turn the other cheek" thing, which happens to be the way i live my life (if i'm not too drunk).
I don't know if it was because i was brought up in a christian country. Parents weren't religious afaik.

 

[MarxUNR]

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[Conky]

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: CrazyfoolI'm just happy you know more about my religion than I do!

Aww... I was actually pseudo-serious in my last post. I really am kind of curious how you follow the bible, because to a guy that was a devout Christian for 15 years, it seems like you're not following it in any sense, literal or metaphorical... *shrug*

I gotta question how devout you were when you are so quick to turn your back on your 15 years of "devoted" religion.

 

[VERTIGGO]

Originally posted by: DurocShark

Originally posted by: purbeast0
also i agree with hans. it does sound pretty disrespectful. i personally am christian too and like hans, i don't push my beliefs on anyone.

from my experience, its typically people who do not really believe in any type of god who are the ones strongly forcing their opinions and beliefs on people, not the other way around. except in college, my freshman year, i had this roomate who was super christian and tried to get me to go to bible meetings and stuff. it really pissed me off how strong he pushed it.

Where are the atheists pushing pamphlets in your hands at the mall? Where are the atheist televangelists?

They don't need them. We have government-run schools that provide more humanist indoctrination than our kids can handle. It's the truth that attracts persecution.

 

[MarxUNR]

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[KRandor]

The problem with religion - which a lot of people who follow it NEED to understand, is that it, like many other things in life, is of HUMAN creation, and therefore FLAWED.

Regardless of what people think about the Bible, (and even the Qu'ran as they've been finding out in several archaelogical studies too - though they're really afraid to make all their findings available in a widespread manner to the public in the current political and religious climte), it is also of human creation.

Because of this - comparing religion to science, is very much comparing apples to oranges. Religion is ALL about humanity - which is at least a moving target, whereas science is about understanding the universe in which we live, which we did NOT create - (though we can modfy it...) - though, yes, humanity will still have a part to play in understanding and interpreting it - it just won't be such a moving target for subsequent generations to try and focus on...

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: MarxUNR

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Maybe you need to wake the fvck up and realize that Christianity does not equal whatever part of the bible you feel like quoting.

I have told you several times now that the bible is not all that Christianity is about but you simply don't listen.

What do you believe Christianity is, then? Is it insulting random people on internet forums? Going against what is said in the book on which your religion is based? Cursing?

I have always (and still do) believed that Jesus taught some very valuable lessons. Lessons that everyone should follow. They're the same guidelines and morals taught in many religions. Respect for your fellow man. Love, kindness, understanding, charity. While I do not claim any religion, I do believe religion serves a great purpose. To teach these morals to people, to make the world a better place.

I gotta question how devout you were when you are so quick to turn your back on your 15 years of "devoted" religion.

Things change. You're wrong if you think I woke up one morning and decided to stop being Christian. It was a process that happened over several years, one thing building on another. I used to be incredibly devoted to my faith... serving where I could, helping others, teaching people about my faith should they care to ask, etc.

Some of that has still stuck with me, as I mentioned above. My morals and guidelines for living remain intact. I just do not believe in the existence of a god.

Is saying that you don't listen insulting you? Even when you don't listen?

Especially when you once again bring that book into the equation. :roll:

I would repeat what I said about that book again but you never ever listen... probably why you failed in your "devout Christian" stuff... you probably didn't want to listen then either.

Look, I'm sorry you lost your faith, but being an "Atheist" is not the answer. Check back to one of my earlier posts in this thread where I point out how my father doesn't believe in God but feels no need to mock Christians.

You, sir, obviously feel a great need to mock Christians and their faith. (and quote the bible to them even if they aren't particularly bible-centric). It's a shame you don't believe in Christ anymore but there is no reason to hate. Isn't that the central belief of most religions, including your new found Atheist belief system?

I will only say that I hope you find peace and stop hating on Jesus, lol. And that I am done with this thread. I don't try to preach to anyone but I take offense at people mocking my religion even though I am not especially devout. Like I said... worship a shoe for all I care.

 

[MarxUNR]

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[imported_smilingcrow]

If it was my wife, I would gently remind her that she may well be damaging her relationship with her son, if she tries to force him to interact with Christianity at this time, as well as reinforcing his negative perception of Christianity.
As for God, if he/she/it exists, I?m sure they can look after themselves

I?m not convinced that many children of that age are experienced enough in life to make a serious decision on such a big issue. He?s possibly just reacting and rebelling which isn?t exactly unusual. At least he?s not being a timid little sheep and just does what he?s told while building up massive resentment internally.

As for his disrespect towards his mother, well he?s only a child and can learn from this if his parents don?t just go into punishment mode but actually talk with him about it. I hope they are mature enough to do this, my parents certainly weren?t.
I think his mother could wise up and see that her pushing him has provoked the situation. If she doesn?t take responsibility for her actions then this could be the beginning of a horrible struggle.

Unfortunately, religion seems to bring out the bigoted and intolerant side of many people as well as supporting their positive sides. I have no problem with Christ but Christianity does seem from certain angles to be an insidious cult.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur
Get some good books showing how Egyptian mythology is the basis for much of Genesis and have your wife read them.

Then toss in something like Who Wrote The Bible? - Richard Elliott Friedman and From Jesus to Christianity - L. Michael White

Then have a nice family discussion.

Yes, yes, and the story of Moses the infant being pulled from the water is the same as the legend of Sargon of Akkad.

The real discussion should be about the historical importance of these stories and what they mean about our customs, traditions, and the way people think. I would suggest reading Joseph Campbell. The mere fact that the same stories appear over and over again, often without any physical connection, should be important to those honestly interested in the history of the human experience (as opposed to those who just want to join in on the book burning).

Is it really so much about our customs and traditions or is it more of a way for certain people to gain or retain power over the populace?

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: conjur
Is it really so much about our customs and traditions or is it more of a way for certain people to gain or retain power over the populace?

Well, humans have a need to believe in a "higher power". Wheather it's emotional or physical is still open to debate.

Then there are folks who have a need to be in charge. Who crave power. They're the ones who start organized religions (and companies and run for office etc...)

I doubt it's a conscious decision to attempt to control the populace.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Damn, too bad I can't try to post right after I die. It'll suck not having an Internet connection to post on ATOT from heaven

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: conjur
Is it really so much about our customs and traditions or is it more of a way for certain people to gain or retain power over the populace?

You've been listening to George Carlin haven't you?

 

[TallBill]

Wife and I are both agnostic. Basically we dont even think about religion or care.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: JRich

Originally posted by: conjur
Is it really so much about our customs and traditions or is it more of a way for certain people to gain or retain power over the populace?

You've been listening to George Carlin haven't you?

Not for several years. More along the lines of doing more reading.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
Is it really so much about our customs and traditions or is it more of a way for certain people to gain or retain power over the populace?

Power is an illusion. With or without traditional religions, some people will always feel the need to grant authority to others. This isn't necessarily caused by religion. It's caused by the false belief that someone, some authority, be it priest, scientist, businessman, teacher, news reporter politician, bureaucrat, or elder, actually knows that the fsck is going on. In truth, no one knows what the fsck is going on, and I, for one, am not willing to destroy our traditional religions for this single flaw of people merely to replace it with some new religion so that this flaw can be buried under.
In other words, fix the disease, not the symptoms.

 

[dfloyd]

Honestly I will never understand Atheisim. I just dont get the point, I mean I would honestly rather be just about any religion and be wrong than be a Aetheist and be right. Maybe it empowers someone to feel they understand things that others dont. I do know humans as a whole are quick to accept many theories for things they cant explain just because its easier to hold onto some belief even if its wrong (And to those who claim anything as fact, especially Evolution, Big Bang, heck even what killed the dinosaurs are just proving that they really dont understand science. There is only one scientific fact, and that is that there are no scientific facts. We know things to a high degree of propability, but nothing for a fact) than it is to deal with the uncertainity of not knowing.

But on the son, daughter, wife, husband thing I honestly could not imagine what to suggest. I know Christians feel it is their duty to share what they know with others. They are really not doing it to hurt others but it is because of their beliefs that they feel they can help others by sharing their beliefs with them. I guess your wife and you really need to think about the differences of each of your beliefs and how they will effect each and every member of the family, not just you and her. As I understand it her beliefs compel her to share with her son, her daughter, and probably even you. As far as your beliefs go I am not sure what they compel you to do or not do.

Also I would not call myself a Christian necessarily (Although I respect, admire, and want to believe in everything Jesus stood for. Its just hard to do when the old testament contradicts the new many times), I do believe in something though (Still hoping to find out what one day). There are just too many unexplained perfections to of happened by accident. Their just about has to be some grand design, be it little green aliens or Jesus himself. Distance of the earth from the moon, distance of the sun from the earth, type of nutrients we have, type of lands we have, type of gases we breathe, these are all perfect to support life as it is. Now if you want to do something funny try to explain these so called random events away with the possibility of each of the odds happening exactly like they happened and considering that everyone of them happened. Odds are it would be a anstronomically high number to come even within a billionth of a chance that everything would turn out as perfect as it did to support life exactly like it is. So things are happening for some reason, at least imo. That and Science most of the time just does not make any sense, at least common sense.

You are definatly in a rock and a hard place my friend. As far as what to do I think the best bet would be for you and your wife to sit down sometime and work out a lesson whee you both explain your points of view. Do it in a very caring, understanding, and respectful manner and that way he can see both sides of the coin, logically and respectfully. That way he can make a informed decision, but sarcasam cant enter the discussion as kids pick up on it quickly, and it sounds like he already has. Not meant as a form of disrespect towards you friend, but it sounds like (I could easily be wrong) him calling her beliefs fantasies has been taught to him from somewhere, and considering your position and beliefs it would appear he learned that from you. Neither of you should tell him that either belief is wrong, just explain that you feel differently, and why you feel differently.

But good luck with it, I dont envy either of you in this position.

 

[smopoim86]

Originally posted by: SampSon
People of religion are always extremely offended when someone doesn't agree with them. That is one of their biggest shortcomings.

Not always, I can accept that people have their own beliefs.

Have you ever thought that everything you know is programmed responce. That every thing you were ever told could be or was a lie. What if your screwed whether your religous or not?

I'm a christian and thinking about stuff like that begins to scare me.

 

[AliasX]

I think that atheists for the most part have a superiority complex. They think they are smarter than everyone else because they have it figured out. They figured out that religion is a bunch of rubbish, and for that, they are better than those who worship. They believe they are smarter than the people who worship.

carry on now, you may continue to battle about the scientific start of the world, and what happened before the big bang, etc. Do I care for religion? Not really, but I think atheists are a bunch of garbage.