christian god on the ropes in UK. Apathy on the rise

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: syzygy
christianity, in some form, is a critical cog to this nation's standards of right and wrong. the
facts that its resistent to change is important because it does provide a check on anyone's
hell-bent desire to effect willy-nilly social reforms.

You apparently haven't studied much Christian history. Christianity is in NO WAY resistent to change. On the contrary, Christianity changes itself all the time to keep up with the times and to suck in more and more people. Observe all the PAGAN holidays its absorbed (Christmas, Easter being the biggies) in order to bring more followers into the fold.

No, whatever else you can say about Christianity or its importance, much of which IS valid, you *can't* say that it's resistent to change. It's not.

Jason

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

I hate to let you in on the secret, but USA/Europe is not the entire world. Christianly is rapidly growing in South America and Africa. And from what I hear it's growing in China as well.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Condor
Many of the former Soviet states are very religious!

And which former soviet state do you hail from?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
You apparently haven't studied much Christian history. Christianity is in NO WAY resistent to change. On the contrary, Christianity changes itself all the time to keep up with the times and to suck in more and more people. Observe all the PAGAN holidays its absorbed (Christmas, Easter being the biggies) in order to bring more followers into the fold.

No, whatever else you can say about Christianity or its importance, much of which IS valid, you *can't* say that it's resistent to change. It's not.

Jason

Simply because the dates for Christmas and Easter match some ancient Roman holidays hardly means anything about Christianity. The Romans had about 180 holidays a year. So, by your logic, there's about a 50% chance that your birthday is just the observation of a PAGAN holiday. Get a grip.

 

[sMiLeYz]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
You apparently haven't studied much Christian history. Christianity is in NO WAY resistent to change. On the contrary, Christianity changes itself all the time to keep up with the times and to suck in more and more people. Observe all the PAGAN holidays its absorbed (Christmas, Easter being the biggies) in order to bring more followers into the fold.

No, whatever else you can say about Christianity or its importance, much of which IS valid, you *can't* say that it's resistent to change. It's not.

Jason

Simply because the dates for Christmas and Easter match some ancient Roman holidays hardly means anything about Christianity. The Romans had about 180 holidays a year. So, by your logic, there's about a 50% chance that your birthday is just the observation of a PAGAN holiday. Get a grip.

Funny how the birth of Jesus coincides with the birth of the Roman Sun God Holiday, on Dec 25th. Religions borrow from each other all the time.

Who cares about jesus anyway on Christmas? It's all about getting gifts from a big fat ficticious old man in a red suit.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Funny how the birth of Jesus coincides with the birth of the Roman Sun God Holiday, on Dec 25th. Religions borrow from each other all the time.

Who cares about jesus anyway on Christmas? It's all about getting gifts from a big fat ficticious old man in a red suit.

*GASP* Surely not another anti-Christian sweeping generalization on this forum?

 

[Gen Stonewall]

Who cares about jesus anyway on Christmas? It's all about getting gifts from a big fat ficticious old man in a red suit.

Probably true for most people.:frown:

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
You apparently haven't studied much Christian history. Christianity is in NO WAY resistent to change. On the contrary, Christianity changes itself all the time to keep up with the times and to suck in more and more people. Observe all the PAGAN holidays its absorbed (Christmas, Easter being the biggies) in order to bring more followers into the fold.

No, whatever else you can say about Christianity or its importance, much of which IS valid, you *can't* say that it's resistent to change. It's not.

Jason

Simply because the dates for Christmas and Easter match some ancient Roman holidays hardly means anything about Christianity. The Romans had about 180 holidays a year. So, by your logic, there's about a 50% chance that your birthday is just the observation of a PAGAN holiday. Get a grip.

Hate to brake to you but jesus was actually born in (IIRC) April of 6BC. That is, only if you believe in the bible - a documentary I gave several compelling reasons (a star was in the sky only in that year/time of year, there were no shepherds in the middle of the winter etc, "lucky coincidence" with a major roman holiday etc)

edit: It seems I did not remember correctly, as the best guess they have is September or October of 5BC
sources:
http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm
http://www.bbie.org/english/St...sJesusBornOnDec25.html

The first one is especially good. Feel free to dispute and invalidate each of their ~10 arguments.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Martin
Hate to brake to you but jesus was actually born in (IIRC) April of 6BC. That is, only if you believe in the bible - a documentary I gave several compelling reasons (a star was in the sky only in that year/time of year, there were no shepherds in the middle of the winter etc, "lucky coincidence" with a major roman holiday etc)

edit: It seems I did not remember correctly, as the best guess they have is September or October of 5BC
sources:
http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm
http://www.bbie.org/english/St...sJesusBornOnDec25.html

The first one is especially good. Feel free to dispute and invalidate each of their ~10 arguments.

How does that conflict with anything I said? Why does the actual date of the celebration matter? Why isn't it what the celebration represents? People here will take anything, no matter how trivial, and try to use it to defame Christianity. What a joke.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Martin
Hate to brake to you but jesus was actually born in (IIRC) April of 6BC. That is, only if you believe in the bible - a documentary I gave several compelling reasons (a star was in the sky only in that year/time of year, there were no shepherds in the middle of the winter etc, "lucky coincidence" with a major roman holiday etc)

edit: It seems I did not remember correctly, as the best guess they have is September or October of 5BC
sources:
http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm
http://www.bbie.org/english/St...sJesusBornOnDec25.html

The first one is especially good. Feel free to dispute and invalidate each of their ~10 arguments.

How does that conflict with anything I said? Why does the actual date of the celebration matter? Why isn't it what the celebration represents? People here will take anything, no matter how trivial, and try to use it to defame Christianity. What a joke.

What are you saying exactly, cyclo? That xtian religion will continue in some form or another is a given. It's survived for almost 2000 years so it must bring some people happiness. That there are detractors to it is even more of a given, you can make alot of enemies over two millenia. Chill.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
To say that Britain is rapidly becoming a godless country would be too strong, but a YouGov survey provides overwhelming evidence that the British are now a largely irreligious people.

Only a minority believe that God exists and almost everyone acknowledges that Britain is becoming an increasingly secular society.


There is little or no evidence of active hostility towards either religious people or religious beliefs.

Instead, the national mood appears to be one of benign indifference. Most people give the impression of regarding religion almost as a consumer good, one to be consumed by those who happen to have a taste for it. more

If America is on the decline culturally and economically then is chrisianity in peril also?
What do you all think of technology leaving behind the superstitious dogma of a darker less enlightened age?
Obviously christianity as a whole has been withering since the industrial revolotion in importance to peoples daily lives. Will it survive?
And for how long can the churches afford to stay open with such apathy?

well i would say that ideally america will turn out like britain... no hostility from either side, with religion slowly waning away.

if america is on the decline culturally and economically, then i think christianity is in a better position than if america weren't. obviously those in the decline won't be contributing to christianity (or *will* they...), but such a decline would indicate general ignorance in the population. i'm guessing among those that are against the decline, we will see them be more fanatical about religion as a sort of backlash. and as far as economics go, there can be no better catalyst for religion than hardship.

and i think technology leaving behind dogma of a less enlightened age is a good thing :thumbsup:

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Condor
Many of the former Soviet states are very religious!

And which former soviet state do you hail from?

I just worked three years in Ukraine. Nice place, very wonderful people. I don't believe that Steep and the liberals who capture the intellectual high ground would believe the level of education in the former SU! I didn't care for the food all that much as the beef was pretty tasteless and there was little if any seafood. Wonderful how the women came out!

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: KB
The British invest considerable sums in educational programming. Ever notice that almost all programs on Public television are BBC created? And the more educated people tend to be, the less religious they tend to be.

Watching TV makes you educated?

It makes you a dupe to the mass communication media that is controlled by a small elite that flood us with their distorted world view.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: KB
The British invest considerable sums in educational programming. Ever notice that almost all programs on Public television are BBC created? And the more educated people tend to be, the less religious they tend to be.

Watching TV makes you educated?

It makes you a dupe to the mass communication media that is controlled by a small elite that flood us with their distorted world view.

It's not watching TV. It's what you watch on TV.