Christian groups: Intolerant?

[xirtam]

Ameesh, I'm sorry you've had that experience with Christians. I know they're out there. Unfortunately, not all Christians live in accordance with Christianity. In fact, very few do... hopefully they realize this and understand that their Christianity is the first step in admitting that we all have "wicked ways" and require God's help with such things.

And as far as the heaven/hell thing... to me that's a side issue. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. Any decent view of God requires Him to be sovereign.

The Christian gospel is not meant to come packaged with anger or hatred. Pity perhaps, but that same pity is toward all of mankind. There should be no condescending tone involved.

As far as the evidence presented:

1.) We have a president that well deny federal funding for research that has the potential for live saving cures because he believes "it's not what God wants" (stem-cells).

You know, you're either going to piss off one group or the other. If you want to save lives, stop abortions. If you want to save lives, develop stem-cell research. If you want to save lives, "DARE to resist drugs." I'm tired of all this "save-lives" this and "save-lives" that, personally. We really don't know what is going to "save lives" until we buckle down and do it. It's an end that doesn't necessarily justify the means, although it sure sounds good.

2.) We have pastors giving hateful sermons that are anti-non-christian to thousands followers.

Those darned pastors. Did you know that you can get ordained by submitting an online form?

3.) We have science education being denied to secondary school students because "it's not consistent with the Bible" (teaching of evolution).

It's not denied. I learned about it on my own years before I went to secondary school. They even teach about it in church seminars -- both theories of Creation and evolution.

4.)Christian groups is persucuted people (homosexuals, atheists..,etc) simply because they believe or act a certain way.

Wow. Homosexuals and atheists are persecuted for what they believe or how they act? My goodness. Did you know in Sudan, Christians are being crucified and enslaved? Name a belief or position, and somebody's being persecuted for it.


Newsflash: Christian groups -- like any other group -- are far from perfect. Most of them will freely admit that, and those that don't probably aren't Christian. Maybe they just filled out an online form.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Piano Man Christians intolerant? It can't be. Of course you can add a lot of religions to that list.

From the webpage given above, I'd say that Pat Robertson is a pretty intolerant kind of guy.

Pat Robertson HARDLY represents Christians everywhere...

nik

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Christians aren't intolerant at all.
They teach right from wrong according to there beliefs, it is wrong to commit acts of homosexuality. If you want to be homosexual then you can still do it, It is a free country and nobody is going to stop you. The christians will continue teaching right from wrong and will tolerate you living in the country and won't come and raid your house or something.

Right. And killing abortion Dr's fits this tolerance model how?
Bill

 

[Smaulz]

The big question Mr.Smaulz does not lie in generalizing Christians, it is rather addressing what many Christians do and say, and what their religious texts support. Lets examine the relevence: 1.) We have a president that well deny federal funding for research that has the potential for live saving cures because he believes "it's not what God wants" (stem-cells). More Power to him. 2.) We have pastors giving hateful sermons that are anti-non-christian to thousands followers. No pastor of any church I've ever attended has ever given a hateful sermon. Ever. 3.) We have science education being denied to secondary school students because "it's not consistent with the Bible" (teaching of evolution). Umm Not really sure where you got that. Evolution has been taught in American schools for years. 4.)Christian groups is persucuted people (homosexuals, atheists..,etc) simply because they believe or act a certain way. Who's persecuting whom? I can't remember the last time any Christian has gotten a fair shake from the point they identified themselves as such on. The second you see someone who has something to say, the world's behind 'em until they find out the person is a Christian. Let 'em be a homosexual/lesbian, muslim, buddhist, athiest, whatever, and the world applauds them, let 'em be a Christian and the world mocks them and shuts them out. Tell me again about how Christians are persecuting everyone.

These points are not generalizations, really? you sure about that???? they are realities that exist in American society that are supported by facts. Facts? What, the ones you made up? Refering back to my original post, I can state all kinds of "facts" about how "the majority" of welfare recepients are black. Does that in anyway mean that it's okay to say that all blacks are "lazy welfare bums?" Not hardly. Never They cannot be simply ignored. And if you're "way tired of this crap," because perhaps you feel that people are bashing Christians, they're not? then I think you should ask yourself a question. Question: why is there all this crap being spewed? Maybe it's because I'm not the one doing the spewing. Futhermore, if your beliefs are that important to you, why don't you justify how the 4 things I mentioned make American society better, more fair, and less contentious. Why the hell would I want to justify a point YOU'RE trying to make??? Especially when it contradicts my own? You see, as with the beginning of this thread, I pointed to specific reference, not an overgeneralization, and just asked a question. A question that obviously you cannot answer. what question was that?

 

[Smaulz]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Right. And killing abortion Dr's fits this tolerance model how? Bill

wow


that was incredibly ignorant.....

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Smaulz

Originally posted by: bsobel

Right. And killing abortion Dr's fits this tolerance model how? Bill

wow
that was incredibly ignorant.....

How? The model suggested Mr. Burns was that Christians teach right from wrong. But if you choose wrong, you still can as 'it's a free country and nobody is going to stop you'. The Christians will continue teaching right from wrong and will tolerate you and 'won't come raid your house or something'.

So, you have Christian anti-abortion groups who believe it is morally right to kill abortion Dr's (I think killing fits into the above mentioned 'or something'). How does that fit the model of tolerance that Mr. Burns says exists?

I'm not even taking a position (in this argument) on abortion, just pointing out an obvious example where the real action of *some* Christian groups does not match what Mr. Burns claims.

Bill

 

[Smaulz]

Originally posted by: bsobel

How? The model suggested Mr. Burns was that Christians teach right from wrong. But if you choose wrong, you still can as 'it's a free country and nobody is going to stop you'. The Christians will continue teaching right from wrong and will tolerate you and 'won't come raid your house or something'. So, you have Christian anti-abortion groups who believe it is morally right to kill abortion Dr's (I think killing fits into the above mentioned 'or something'). How does that fit the model of tolerance that Mr. Burns says exists? I'm not even taking a position (in this argument) on abortion, just pointing out an obvious example where the real action of *some* Christian groups does not match what Mr. Burns claims. Bill

Dude, read my earlier post on generalities. Because a couple of twisted people used Christianity as a justification for their actions, you're making an assumption regarding the whole Christian morality ideal.

 

[calbear2000]

What I find amusing is that some (not all) atheists use the things they find wrong about certain Christians to justify their atheism. How many Catholic scandal threads do we see some moron saying something like "Thats why I'm not Christian"

Whats even funnier is what I've heard referred to as "Heaven envy" Atheists that say "I don't believe in heaven, but what I don't like about Christians is that they say I can't go"


But to be fair, yes there are some intolerant Christians. Does the Bible teach them to be intolerant? The answer is no.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Smaulz

Originally posted by: bsobel

How? The model suggested Mr. Burns was that Christians teach right from wrong. But if you choose wrong, you still can as 'it's a free country and nobody is going to stop you'. The Christians will continue teaching right from wrong and will tolerate you and 'won't come raid your house or something'. So, you have Christian anti-abortion groups who believe it is morally right to kill abortion Dr's (I think killing fits into the above mentioned 'or something'). How does that fit the model of tolerance that Mr. Burns says exists? I'm not even taking a position (in this argument) on abortion, just pointing out an obvious example where the real action of *some* Christian groups does not match what Mr. Burns claims. Bill

Dude, read my earlier post on generalities. Because a couple of twisted people used Christianity as a justification for their actions, you're making an assumption regarding the whole Christian morality ideal.

Dude, read. I clearly said action of *some* Christian groups.
Bill

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: calbear2000
What I find amusing is that some (not all) atheists use the things they find wrong about certain Christians to justify their atheism.

No. We just point out that every single last aspect of the Christian belief system is ludicrous and grossly inconsistent with middle-school science and our basic fundamental understanding of the world around us.

How many Catholic scandal threads do we see some moron saying something like "Thats why I'm not Christian"

The Christian scandal is more subtle...for instance, stem-cell research has the potential to provide rejection-free long-lasting organ replacements, spinal-cord regeneration (cure for quadriplegics), etc... yet the Christians have been fiercely lobbying against this breakthrough line of study because it makes them feel guilty. Personally, depriving society of such medical technology is 10 times worse than a few Catholic priests molesting some kids, although that's terrible in an of itself.

But to be fair, yes there are some intolerant Christians. Does the Bible teach them to be intolerant? The answer is no.

This is the point I actually wanted to address. The Bible DOES indeed command Christians not to tolerate non-Christians. For someone who acts like he knows so much about Christianity, I'm surprised that you did not know this...have you actually READ the Bible, BTW?

Here are some examples of the bible teaching intolerance...I will only provide a FEW to illustrate my point.

In Jeremiah 10:25, Jeremiah prays to God and asks him to "pour out [his] fury" on non-believers.
"OH LORD . . . Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name"

In Exodus 23:24, God commands that images of other dieties be destroyed (e.g. Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, etc.)
"Thou shalt not bow down to their gods . . . but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

And of course, let's not forget Matthew 12:30
"He that is not with me, is against me."

Note: These lines were derived from the Skeptics Annotated Bible.

There are so many lines like these that punctuate the bible. I think part of the problem is that few Christians have time to read the bible for themselves, and so rely on what they learn in sermon or sunday school -- which, of course, is shielded from contradictions, intolerances, etc...and also is promotes that particular church's agenda (e.g. vote for Bush). The Christians that do read the bible tend to do in such a peaceful and sleepy way -- with their faces 2 inches away (small font, I guess), and with a strange zoned-out euphoria about them. It is as though they are reading the bible just to earn brownie points with Jesus, not to actually understand what they read, because judging from how spaced out they look, it's amazing they're not comatose.

Valsalva

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: calbear2000
What I find amusing is that some (not all) atheists use the things they find wrong about certain Christians to justify their atheism.

No. We just point out that every single last aspect of the Christian belief system is ludicrous and grossly inconsistent with middle-school science and our basic fundamental understanding of the world around us.

How many Catholic scandal threads do we see some moron saying something like "Thats why I'm not Christian"

The Christian scandal is more subtle...for instance, stem-cell research has the potential to provide rejection-free long-lasting organ replacements, spinal-cord regeneration (cure for quadriplegics), etc... yet the Christians have been fiercely lobbying against this breakthrough line of study because it makes them feel guilty. Personally, depriving society of such medical technology is 10 times worse than a few Catholic priests molesting some kids, although that's terrible in an of itself.

But to be fair, yes there are some intolerant Christians. Does the Bible teach them to be intolerant? The answer is no.

This is the point I actually wanted to address. The Bible DOES indeed command Christians not to tolerate non-Christians. For someone who acts like he knows so much about Christianity, I'm surprised that you did not know this...have you actually READ the Bible, BTW?

Here are some examples of the bible teaching intolerance...I will only provide a FEW to illustrate my point.

In Jeremiah 10:25, Jeremiah prays to God and asks him to "pour out [his] fury" on non-believers.
"OH LORD . . . Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name"

In Exodus 23:24, God commands that images of other dieties be destroyed (e.g. Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, etc.)
"Thou shalt not bow down to their gods . . . but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

And of course, let's not forget Matthew 12:30
"He that is not with me, is against me."

Note: These lines were derived from the Skeptics Annotated Bible.

There are so many lines like these that punctuate the bible. I think part of the problem is that few Christians have time to read the bible for themselves, and so rely on what they learn in sermon or sunday school -- which, of course, is shielded from contradictions, intolerances, etc...and also is promotes that particular church's agenda (e.g. vote for Bush). The Christians that do read the bible tend to do in such a peaceful and sleepy way -- with their faces 2 inches away (small font, I guess), and with a strange zoned-out euphoria about them. It is as though they are reading the bible just to earn brownie points with Jesus, not to actually understand what they read, because judging from how spaced out they look, it's amazing they're not comatose.

Valsalva

excellent post.

 

[exp]

My only beef is with Christians who advocate equal time for creationism in science classes. They are doing their children (and more importantly *mine*) an inexcusable disservice by presenting their groundless dogma as a scientific theory.

 

[MF1]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Because the Budhists are not the ones knocking at my door, telling me how to live me life.

have you ever lived in a budhist country? how do you know that they don't proselytize?

I have. No Buddhists come knocking on my door with a big book. Strangely enough, many god believers come knocking, preaching, trying to give a small gift like a light bulb, a sandwich for your time to read a big book with them in a budhist country.

:disgust:

 

[Doomguy]

Remember people, just because someone claims to be a Christian does not make it so. Athiests love to say Christians are hateful or intolerant by using all these people that claim to be Christians as examples.

Generalizations = bad.

 

[Rainsford]

I personally know a lot of self-righteous, intolerant, hateful Christians. But a lot of the nicest people I know are also Christians.

I don't think you can say an entire group is intolerant. There are a lot of idiots in the world, and a lot of them use religion as an excuse or as a method for taking out their anger on the world. But saying that the stupid Christians out there represents all Christians is like saying Arab terrorists represent all Muslims. It just doesn't make sense.

But I will say that any group (or individual for that matter) that tries to force their beliefs down my throat or tells me I'm evil because I don't believe as they do deserves to be released into orbit. Faith is a private thing, and it's certainly not something you need to make people believe. I don't try to make people share my beliefs, so please do the same for me.

 

[MF1]

Originally posted by: Doomguy
Remember people, just because someone claims to be a Christian does not make it so. Athiests love to say Christians are hateful or intolerant by using all these people that claim to be Christians as examples.

Generalizations = bad.

And your statement (in bold) isn't generalized?

 

[Howard]

Are you denying the existence (or past existence) of missionaries?

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: calbear2000
What I find amusing is that some (not all) atheists use the things they find wrong about certain Christians to justify their atheism.

No. We just point out that every single last aspect of the Christian belief system is ludicrous and grossly inconsistent with middle-school science and our basic fundamental understanding of the world around us.

How many Catholic scandal threads do we see some moron saying something like "Thats why I'm not Christian"

The Christian scandal is more subtle...for instance, stem-cell research has the potential to provide rejection-free long-lasting organ replacements, spinal-cord regeneration (cure for quadriplegics), etc... yet the Christians have been fiercely lobbying against this breakthrough line of study because it makes them feel guilty. Personally, depriving society of such medical technology is 10 times worse than a few Catholic priests molesting some kids, although that's terrible in an of itself.

But to be fair, yes there are some intolerant Christians. Does the Bible teach them to be intolerant? The answer is no.

This is the point I actually wanted to address. The Bible DOES indeed command Christians not to tolerate non-Christians. For someone who acts like he knows so much about Christianity, I'm surprised that you did not know this...have you actually READ the Bible, BTW?

Here are some examples of the bible teaching intolerance...I will only provide a FEW to illustrate my point.

In Jeremiah 10:25, Jeremiah prays to God and asks him to "pour out [his] fury" on non-believers.
"OH LORD . . . Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name"

In Exodus 23:24, God commands that images of other dieties be destroyed (e.g. Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, etc.)
"Thou shalt not bow down to their gods . . . but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

And of course, let's not forget Matthew 12:30
"He that is not with me, is against me."

Note: These lines were derived from the Skeptics Annotated Bible.

There are so many lines like these that punctuate the bible. I think part of the problem is that few Christians have time to read the bible for themselves, and so rely on what they learn in sermon or sunday school -- which, of course, is shielded from contradictions, intolerances, etc...and also is promotes that particular church's agenda (e.g. vote for Bush). The Christians that do read the bible tend to do in such a peaceful and sleepy way -- with their faces 2 inches away (small font, I guess), and with a strange zoned-out euphoria about them. It is as though they are reading the bible just to earn brownie points with Jesus, not to actually understand what they read, because judging from how spaced out they look, it's amazing they're not comatose.

Valsalva

First off, this would be an excellent post if you didn't resort to facetious insults. So if you expect a serious answer (which I'm going to give you for now), please don't talk in a childish fashion. (it will just inspire other kids to jump in)

Secondly, those are definitely quotes that support your argument, but you're taking phrases grossly out of context and using Old Testament rhetoric to contradict what the New Testament teaches us. Along those same lines, I can justify that eating pork is a despicable sin by using the Old Testament out of context.

You only have 1 New Testament quote, which is also taken out of context by the way. "He that is not with me, is against me." Here is the whole quote:
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

It does NOT preach intolerance of man towards another man.


I realize its easy to take quotes from the Bible out of context... but if you read the entire Bible, with the fact that the New Testament is the Word that Jesus Christ delivered, you'll realize handpicking quotes here and there to support a notion that God wants humans to be intolerant of other humans is just plain wrong.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Originally posted by: calbear2000
What I find amusing is that some (not all) atheists use the things they find wrong about certain Christians to justify their atheism.

No. We just point out that every single last aspect of the Christian belief system is ludicrous and grossly inconsistent with middle-school science and our basic fundamental understanding of the world around us.

How many Catholic scandal threads do we see some moron saying something like "Thats why I'm not Christian"

The Christian scandal is more subtle...for instance, stem-cell research has the potential to provide rejection-free long-lasting organ replacements, spinal-cord regeneration (cure for quadriplegics), etc... yet the Christians have been fiercely lobbying against this breakthrough line of study because it makes them feel guilty. Personally, depriving society of such medical technology is 10 times worse than a few Catholic priests molesting some kids, although that's terrible in an of itself.

But to be fair, yes there are some intolerant Christians. Does the Bible teach them to be intolerant? The answer is no.

This is the point I actually wanted to address. The Bible DOES indeed command Christians not to tolerate non-Christians. For someone who acts like he knows so much about Christianity, I'm surprised that you did not know this...have you actually READ the Bible, BTW?

Here are some examples of the bible teaching intolerance...I will only provide a FEW to illustrate my point.

In Jeremiah 10:25, Jeremiah prays to God and asks him to "pour out [his] fury" on non-believers.
"OH LORD . . . Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name"

In Exodus 23:24, God commands that images of other dieties be destroyed (e.g. Buddha, Vishnu, Allah, etc.)
"Thou shalt not bow down to their gods . . . but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

And of course, let's not forget Matthew 12:30
"He that is not with me, is against me."

Note: These lines were derived from the Skeptics Annotated Bible.

There are so many lines like these that punctuate the bible. I think part of the problem is that few Christians have time to read the bible for themselves, and so rely on what they learn in sermon or sunday school -- which, of course, is shielded from contradictions, intolerances, etc...and also is promotes that particular church's agenda (e.g. vote for Bush). The Christians that do read the bible tend to do in such a peaceful and sleepy way -- with their faces 2 inches away (small font, I guess), and with a strange zoned-out euphoria about them. It is as though they are reading the bible just to earn brownie points with Jesus, not to actually understand what they read, because judging from how spaced out they look, it's amazing they're not comatose.

Valsalva

First off, this would be an excellent post if you didn't resort to facetious insults. So if you expect a serious answer (which I'm going to give you for now), please don't talk in a childish fashion. (it will just inspire other kids to jump in)

Secondly, those are definitely quotes that support your argument, but you're taking phrases grossly out of context and using Old Testament rhetoric to contradict what the New Testament teaches us. Along those same lines, I can justify that eating pork is a despicable sin by using the Old Testament out of context.

You only have 1 New Testament quote, which is also taken out of context by the way. "He that is not with me, is against me." Here is the whole quote:
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

It does NOT preach intolerance of man towards another man.


I realize its easy to take quotes from the Bible out of context... but if you read the entire Bible, with the fact that the New Testament is the Word that Jesus Christ delivered, you'll realize handpicking quotes here and there to support a notion that God wants humans to be intolerant of other humans is just plain wrong.

You seem very uneasy about the Old Testament, and I think you realize how badly the contradictions, inconsistencies, injustices, and intolerance run abount. Unfortunately, you cannot merely wipe away the existence of the Old Testatment (OT) like a Jedi mind trick. The fact is, according to your belief system, the OT is the original bible, the one inspired by God himself, who is omnipotent and omniscient. God knew that this would be the principal text used to learn about him and Christianity -- OBVIOUSLY, if there were something God did NOT want in the OT, he would have made doubly sure that it was NOT included. Thus, out of consistency with your belief system, you MUST accept the OT at its face value -- else, you are being inconsistent and irrational. However, I do commend you for doing what most Christians do not do -- read the bible for your yourself.

I notice that you challenge the weakest quote that I have included - this is a common Christian technique for challenging arguments. For instance, Christians like to point out problems with the fossil record, since this is the easiest for them; they fail to address the other body of evidence that strongly favor evolution.

** I challenge you to address the other two examples I have given that clearly demonstrate how the Bible advocates intolerance of non-Christians. If you happen to successfully address one or both, I will glady replace them with one or two more example, because I have a long laundry list of them. These aren't even the best ones. Remember, it is one thing to stomp and wail "out of context, out of context," but another to demonstrate that the meaning even changes when context is added in -- again, do this for the other two quotes.

Valsalva

 

[dethman]

simpsons:

Rev. Lovejoy to Catholic Priest: nice dress. (sarcasm)

Catholic priest: oh yeah? Go home and have sex with your wife!

proceed to fight.



seriously though i agree religion is a good idea and all, but it just doesn't work out in real life. too often creates conflict rather than resolves it. divides rather than unites. of course this isn't all-encompassing, but it does happen.

 

[DielsAlder]

Originally posted by: Smaulz

The big question Mr.Smaulz does not lie in generalizing Christians, it is rather addressing what many Christians do and say, and what their religious texts support. Lets examine the relevence: 1.) We have a president that well deny federal funding for research that has the potential for live saving cures because he believes "it's not what God wants" (stem-cells). <STRONG>More Power to him. </STRONG>2.) We have pastors giving hateful sermons that are anti-non-christian to thousands followers. <STRONG>No pastor of any church I've ever attended has ever given a hateful sermon. Ever. </STRONG>3.) We have science education being denied to secondary school students because "it's not consistent with the Bible" (teaching of evolution). <STRONG>Umm Not really sure where you got that. Evolution has been taught in American schools for years. </STRONG>4.)Christian groups is persucuted people (homosexuals, atheists..,etc) simply because they believe or act a certain way. <STRONG>Who's persecuting whom? I can't remember the last time any Christian has gotten a fair shake from the point they identified themselves as such on. The second you see someone who has something to say, the world's behind 'em until they find out the person is a Christian. Let 'em be a homosexual/lesbian, muslim, buddhist, athiest, whatever, and the world applauds them, let 'em be a Christian and the world mocks them and shuts them out. Tell me again about how Christians are persecuting everyone.

</STRONG>These points are not generalizations, <STRONG>really? you sure about that????</STRONG> they are realities that exist in American society that are supported by facts. <STRONG>Facts? What, the ones you made up? Refering back to my original post, I can state all kinds of "facts" about how "the majority" of welfare recepients are black. Does that in anyway mean that it's okay to say that all blacks are "lazy welfare bums?" Not hardly. Never</STRONG> They cannot be simply ignored. And if you're "way tired of this crap," because perhaps you feel that people are bashing Christians, <STRONG>they're not?</STRONG> then I think you should ask yourself a question. Question: why is there all this crap being spewed? Maybe it's because I'm not the one doing the spewing. Futhermore, if your beliefs are that important to you, why don't you justify how the 4 things I mentioned make American society better, more fair, and less contentious. <STRONG>Why the hell would I want to justify a point YOU'RE trying to make??? Especially when it contradicts my own?</STRONG> You see, as with the beginning of this thread, I pointed to specific reference, not an overgeneralization, and just asked a question. A question that obviously you cannot answer. <STRONG>what question was that?</STRONG>

You have your head in the sand, more than I first realized.

1. Teaching Evolution-Look Here

2. Hateful sermons-- Try Here.

3. Christians persecuting others- refer to #2.

4.Stem Cell research denied-- And you say "more power to him." Try telling this to Them

5. Refer to ValsalvaYourHeart's post-- he covers thoroughly some of these points.

BTW. You asked what my question was...look at the beginning of this thread.

I hope this will raise your awareness.

 

[Platinum321]

to: ValsalvaYourHeartOut

Dude, please get a better understanding of christianity (bible) before you spew your literature. As calbear2k already mention, the coming of jesus christ, the start of the new testament is what really matters. the old testament exist but the new testament is when God's only son came to save man from death due to sin. before christ, most if not all of man were doom due to sin. along with God's son jesus in the NT, comes the new teachings that takes precedence over the OT.

 

[ValsalvaYourHeartOut]

Originally posted by: DielsAlder

Originally posted by: Smaulz

The big question Mr.Smaulz does not lie in generalizing Christians, it is rather addressing what many Christians do and say, and what their religious texts support. Lets examine the relevence: 1.) We have a president that well deny federal funding for research that has the potential for live saving cures because he believes "it's not what God wants" (stem-cells). <STRONG>More Power to him. </STRONG>2.) We have pastors giving hateful sermons that are anti-non-christian to thousands followers. <STRONG>No pastor of any church I've ever attended has ever given a hateful sermon. Ever. </STRONG>3.) We have science education being denied to secondary school students because "it's not consistent with the Bible" (teaching of evolution). <STRONG>Umm Not really sure where you got that. Evolution has been taught in American schools for years. </STRONG>4.)Christian groups is persucuted people (homosexuals, atheists..,etc) simply because they believe or act a certain way. <STRONG>Who's persecuting whom? I can't remember the last time any Christian has gotten a fair shake from the point they identified themselves as such on. The second you see someone who has something to say, the world's behind 'em until they find out the person is a Christian. Let 'em be a homosexual/lesbian, muslim, buddhist, athiest, whatever, and the world applauds them, let 'em be a Christian and the world mocks them and shuts them out. Tell me again about how Christians are persecuting everyone.

</STRONG>These points are not generalizations, <STRONG>really? you sure about that????</STRONG> they are realities that exist in American society that are supported by facts. <STRONG>Facts? What, the ones you made up? Refering back to my original post, I can state all kinds of "facts" about how "the majority" of welfare recepients are black. Does that in anyway mean that it's okay to say that all blacks are "lazy welfare bums?" Not hardly. Never</STRONG> They cannot be simply ignored. And if you're "way tired of this crap," because perhaps you feel that people are bashing Christians, <STRONG>they're not?</STRONG> then I think you should ask yourself a question. Question: why is there all this crap being spewed? Maybe it's because I'm not the one doing the spewing. Futhermore, if your beliefs are that important to you, why don't you justify how the 4 things I mentioned make American society better, more fair, and less contentious. <STRONG>Why the hell would I want to justify a point YOU'RE trying to make??? Especially when it contradicts my own?</STRONG> You see, as with the beginning of this thread, I pointed to specific reference, not an overgeneralization, and just asked a question. A question that obviously you cannot answer. <STRONG>what question was that?</STRONG>

You have your head in the sand, more than I first realized.

1. Teaching Evolution-Look Here

2. Hateful sermons-- Try Here.

3. Christians persecuting others- refer to #2.

4.Stem Cell research denied-- And you say "more power to him." Try telling this to Them

5. Refer to ValsalvaYourHeart's post-- he coves thoroughly the some of these points.

BTW. You asked what my question was...look at the beginning of this thread.

I hope this will raise your awareness.

ROTFLMAO!!! OMFG!!! That was hilarious. Superb post, DielsAlder. You shot down every single one his points in 5 lines!!!

Valsalva

 

[calbear2000]

Valsava,
First you say "And of course, let's not forget Matthew 12:30"

And then, when I show how you twisted it out of context, you claim that I used the dirty Christian tactic of challenging your weakest point.


I thought I explained why Old Testament quotes cannot be read out of context as you presented. I challenge you to read the New Testament to understand the full context of Christ's message, while restraining yourself from looking for little quotes here and there that contradict another little quote in the Old Testament. (ps. I also used to do that when I was atheist)

 

[DielsAlder]

So what you're saying is that there inconsistencies and inaccuracies in the OT.