Christian Taliban alive and well in the United States

[interchange]

Yep, and pushing those boundaries can not only be fun but healthy. There is also a downside as exploration may lead to situations that someone may not be ready for physically or mentally.

Well that's why adolescence (honestly up to age 25) is so scary. We are not just culturally but biologically pushed through a developmental period without our fullest capacity to navigate it, often raising children during it. It can never be as simple as waiting until we have the tools to navigate it. We're all doing it sooner than that, and the people that are virgins at 25 tend to stay virgins (I don't have data on this, just my observation).

But what helps us succeed is a clear delineation between fantasy and reality, a flexibility in appreciating that it's normal to have impulses which we cannot act upon, a stable and well-integrated sense of self, and a healthy respect and appreciation for the autonomy of others. Those things aren't going to be a finished product at the time we're exploring sexual identity, but they are things that good parenting/caregiving/education can provide.

 

[realibrad]

Well that's why adolescence (honestly up to age 25) is so scary. We are not just culturally but biologically pushed through a developmental period without our fullest capacity to navigate it, often raising children during it. It can never be as simple as waiting until we have the tools to navigate it. We're all doing it sooner than that, and the people that are virgins at 25 tend to stay virgins (I don't have data on this, just my observation).

Yes, and I think we agree here, however, others disagree and are making the argument that the only risk is from how society will treat them. Exploring self identity is both healthy as well as being risky if you are not ready. My stance was and is that a 10 year old is not likely to have all the tools to fully explore gender without some serious risk, and a club like what is talked about is a little reckless unless its supervised by someone that understands what is going on.

But what helps us succeed is a clear delineation between fantasy and reality, a flexibility in appreciating that it's normal to have impulses which we cannot act upon, a stable and well-integrated sense of self, and a healthy respect and appreciation for the autonomy of others. Those things aren't going to be a finished product at the time we're exploring sexual identity, but they are things that good parenting/caregiving/education can provide.

And often times good parenting is not given. This is why many seek out others when trying to answer questions. Sadly society has generally seen trans people as lesser which is the biggest factor for gender dysphoria. Its also quite annoying for people to pretend that there is not a risk when doing self exploration, and further that being younger increases the risk of pitfalls.

 

[interchange]

Yes, and I think we agree here, however, others disagree and are making the argument that the only risk is from how society will treat them. Exploring self identity is both healthy as well as being risky if you are not ready. My stance was and is that a 10 year old is not likely to have all the tools to fully explore gender without some serious risk, and a club like what is talked about is a little reckless unless its supervised by someone that understands what is going on.

And 14 year olds aren't equipped to raise children. But no matter how good a job you do, some of them still get pregnant. Perhaps parenting and society influence whether a 10 year old experiences gender identity conflict overly at age 10, or perhaps it's all biology. Either way, it's gonna happen. Saying it shouldn't is no solution at all. And we can't say don't explore your identity. That just means they'll do it secretly. And that usually works worse.

 

[realibrad]

And 14 year olds aren't equipped to raise children. But no matter how good a job you do, some of them still get pregnant. Perhaps parenting and society influence whether a 10 year old experiences gender identity conflict overly at age 10, or perhaps it's all biology. Either way, it's gonna happen. Saying it shouldn't is no solution at all. And we can't say don't explore your identity. That just means they'll do it secretly. And that usually works worse.

If its just telling kids they should not and not explaining why then that would be damaging. if telling kids they should not and explaining why but giving them the tools to try and work it out if they so choose would be my position. Its basically the same position I take on sex education. Teach them the facts, explain why it might be better to hold off and when to know when you are ready enough to try, but give them all the tools they might need to protect themselves coupled with the best information we have. That way if they start to explore, which many will, they will be given the best chance to make the situation positive.

 

[interchange]

If its just telling kids they should not and not explaining why then that would be damaging. if telling kids they should not and explaining why but giving them the tools to try and work it out if they so choose would be my position. Its basically the same position I take on sex education. Teach them the facts, explain why it might be better to hold off and when to know when you are ready enough to try, but give them all the tools they might need to protect themselves coupled with the best information we have. That way if they start to explore, which many will, they will be given the best chance to make the situation positive.

I think we're generally splitting hairs here. I think it would be fine to say no to certain behaviors, provide reasoning, and tools to protect themselves. I do think that saying that is a bit too concrete. It's not just about preventing pregnancy and illness, etc. It's about intimacy, curiosity, power, relationships, etc. But someone can do an excellent job at helping a person navigating those feelings while being a very concrete thinker and never naming them. And someone can do a very mechanical and terrible job while using abundant complexity.

What I observe is that you are actively thinking about it, and you don't ignore what's going on; and you have clear and consistent expectations for behavior without threat and with compassion; and your stance isn't just logic -- it seems very human. So I think that those are the qualities which will make you successful as a parent navigating this with a kid.

 

[realibrad]

I think we're generally splitting hairs here. I think it would be fine to say no to certain behaviors, provide reasoning, and tools to protect themselves. I do think that saying that is a bit too concrete. It's not just about preventing pregnancy and illness, etc. It's about intimacy, curiosity, power, relationships, etc. But someone can do an excellent job at helping a person navigating those feelings while being a very concrete thinker and never naming them. And someone can do a very mechanical and terrible job while using abundant complexity.

What I observe is that you are actively thinking about it, and you don't ignore what's going on; and you have clear and consistent expectations for behavior without threat and with compassion; and your stance isn't just logic -- it seems very human. So I think that those are the qualities which will make you successful as a parent navigating this with a kid.

Well thank you. Given the context of that statement, its very meaningful.