Christians. Are they being misled?

[techs]

This holiday(yes, I said holiday) season seems filled with the much talked about "War on Christmas". If I understand the fuss Christian leaders are "fighting" against Christmas themed, like the nativity, displays on public property being prohibited.
Also they are "fighting" against people using the term "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" as well as the same on greeting cards.
To my Christian friends:
Have you looked around? Christians are being persecuted and killed around the world. A billion and a quarter Chinese can't be practicing Christians. In parts of Africa to be a Christian means you stand the risk of being matcheted to death.
Children are dying by the bushels in parts of this world. Disease is killing them by bushels in others. In America Christians are facing medical bills they can't pay and heat they can't afford to buy.
And the worst enemy you can find is people who want to keep nativity scenes off public property but not anywhere else?
And the "War on Christmas" is what you choose to make important at this time of year when you celebrate your Saviours birth? A Saviour who preached peace and love and caring for you neighbor? This is how you honor him and follow in his footsteps?
I honestly don't know WHAT your leaders are doing. It seems so far from what I always believed Christians to stand for. And it makes me look at Christianity in a negative manner.
Just my 2 cents. Don't mean to offend anyone.

 

[ntdz]

I'm not religious, but it absolutely disgusts me that "Merry Christmas" is no longer politically correct...WTF???

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: ntdz
I'm not religious, but it absolutely disgusts me that "Merry Christmas" is no longer politically correct...WTF???

Have a merry CHRIST-Mas .

 

[Hacp]

I agree.
Christian women are denied the right to rape men in many civilized countries. The vice versa is also true.
The poor Christian kids can't get their fair share of legal porn anymore in the US, unless they knowningly violate the law.
Christians with AIDs are having their rights violated the most. They can't donate blood, nor can they have unprotected sex legally without notifying their partner of their disease.
Finally, millions of christian boys are being denied the rights to attend all girls schools.
This sort of persecution must stop!

 

[Banzai042]

Wow, way to lump all Christians into one gigantic group. I persionally don't see what's wrong with just saying happy holidays, and I think that the uproar over the whole thing is crazy, though i do wonder what the deal with ppl that freak out at hearing "merry christmas" is all about. Ok, so it started out as a holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus, but considering the nature of Christmas now, being as secular as it is, I'm kinda confused as to why mentioning it is "forcing my religion on somebody else". My opinion, if you want to complain about hearing the word "christmas" then turn around and celebrate it there's something just a bit off to me. After all, last i checked december 25th is indeed officially known as Christmas, at least in the US, where it has become an issue. If you have a problem with the word "christmas" than surely you have a problem with the celebration of Christmas, right?

 

[glenn1]

This holiday(yes, I said holiday) season seems filled with the much talked about "War on Christmas". If I understand the fuss Christian leaders are "fighting" against Christmas themed, like the nativity, displays on public property being prohibited.

I wouldn't get too worried about it since what they're being whipped up about is trivial and can easily be ignored by those who don't feel the same way. It might even serve as a safety valve for hardcore believers to blow off steam in the name of a cause that's basically harmless (instead of blowing up an abortion clinic or something). I put this into the same category as the "Million Mom March" or such other banal events that catch a bit of hangtime in the media for a short period, but will be completely forgotten by 98% of Americans in a month.

 

[Whaspe]

Typically, a culture embraces its history and traditions taking pride in the past and using that as a solid platform with which to greet the future. Why America is so caught up in "political correctness" and stripping all of its tradition out of its holdays is bizarre. Can't those who feel they have evolved into something better then their religious ancestors get off their high horse and wish people a Merry Christmas?

 

[judasmachine]

more busy bodies on both sides. i don't really care if you celebrate festivus, christmas, or the winter solstice. i also don't care which you use when greeting me.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ntdz
I'm not religious, but it absolutely disgusts me that "Merry Christmas" is no longer politically correct...WTF???

Merry Christmas is fine and dandy if you're addressing people that celebrate christmas...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Whaspe
Typically, a culture embraces its history and traditions taking pride in the past and using that as a solid platform with which to greet the future. Why America is so caught up in "political correctness" and stripping all of its tradition out of its holdays is bizarre. Can't those who feel they have evolved into something better then their religious ancestors get off their high horse and wish people a Merry Christmas?

This is exactly the point, it's not a big deal to anyone except the people getting their panties in a wad about it NOT being said. Where did Happy Holidays come from? Maybe from people who realize that our history and traditions are comprised of more than just Christian beliefs and holidays. In any case, I don't think it's really a big deal to anyone in the Happy Holidays crowd, all the panty wadding is coming from the Merry Christmas folks.

 

[AreaCode707]

I think a lot of Christians are afraid that the government will eventually try to stop them from practicing their religion (maybe a fear bred into the religion from the early Roman days when they were persecuted and killed, as well as other times in history and some places in present day where they are oppressed, such as China). From that fear, they react strongly to the things they perceive as small steps to making oppression legitimized.

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: HotChic
I think a lot of Christians are afraid that the government will eventually try to stop them from practicing their religion (maybe a fear bred into the religion from the early Roman days when they were persecuted and killed, as well as other times in history and some places in present day where they are oppressed, such as China). From that fear, they react strongly to the things they perceive as small steps to making oppression legitimized.

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

Look, I'm not in favor of discrimination any more than the next person, and while I'll admit that I'm sure there are individual Christians who have been attacked because of their beliefs, I find the concept of Christians being persecuted VERY hard to believe. "The government" is going to stop them from practicing their beliefs? The government is VERY religious at the moment and Christians make up a vast, VAST majority of voters. Christianity is as close to an official US religion as we're going to get, and they are afraid their going to be persecuted? Give me a break.

 

[smack Down]

The shepard needs to lead the sheep some where and it really doesn't matter if he misleads the sheeo they won't know the difference.

 

[Rainsford]

Maybe I just have a poor memory, but now that I think about it, I'm having trouble coming up with very many examples of a majority that holds political power being persecuted. Of course majorities ARE persecuted, South Africa and Iraq being the best recent examples, but I can't think of very many cases where a powerless minority was able to persecute the majority.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: HotChic
I think a lot of Christians are afraid that the government will eventually try to stop them from practicing their religion (maybe a fear bred into the religion from the early Roman days when they were persecuted and killed, as well as other times in history and some places in present day where they are oppressed, such as China). From that fear, they react strongly to the things they perceive as small steps to making oppression legitimized.

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

Look, I'm not in favor of discrimination any more than the next person, and while I'll admit that I'm sure there are individual Christians who have been attacked because of their beliefs, I find the concept of Christians being persecuted VERY hard to believe. "The government" is going to stop them from practicing their beliefs? The government is VERY religious at the moment and Christians make up a vast, VAST majority of voters. Christianity is as close to an official US religion as we're going to get, and they are afraid their going to be persecuted? Give me a break.

I didn't say they were or were going to be persecuted in the US. They definitely are persecuted in some other places in the world, and they have been at other times in history. All I said is that most have a fear that persecution will come, and thus they see things as small steps towards legitimizing persecution. Does that make more sense?

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Whaspe
Typically, a culture embraces its history and traditions taking pride in the past and using that as a solid platform with which to greet the future. Why America is so caught up in "political correctness" and stripping all of its tradition out of its holdays is bizarre. Can't those who feel they have evolved into something better then their religious ancestors get off their high horse and wish people a Merry Christmas?

Well, I would happily do so - except that CHRISTMAS was originally a Roman holiday appropriated by the Christians! And there was evidence that they appropriated such from the Druids...or that the Druids had their own. Who knows?

Basically, nearly all major cultures have had or do have some mid-winter celebration. We should just loosen up, great people with the saying that we think they might want to hear for this season: "Hi James, Merry Christmas", "Hi Irving, Happy Hannukah", "Hi Abdul, how's the Iraqi election?" And if we don't know their prefference, just leave it as "Happy Holidays"...

Future Shock

 

[1prophet]

"A merry Christmas, uncle! God save you!" cried a cheerful voice. It was the voice of Scrooge's nephew, who came upon him so quickly that this was the first intimation he had of his approach.

"Bah!" said Scrooge, "Humbug!"

He had so heated himself with rapid walking in the fog and frost, this nephew of Scrooge's, that he was all in a glow; his face was ruddy and handsome; his eyes sparkled, and his breath smoked again.

"Christmas a humbug, uncle!" said Scrooge's nephew. "You don't mean that, I am sure."

"I do," said Scrooge. "Merry Christmas! What right have you to be merry? What reason have you to be merry? You're poor enough."

"Come, then," returned the nephew gaily. "What right have you to be dismal? What reason have you to be morose? You're rich enough."

Scrooge having no better answer ready on the spur of the moment, said "Bah!" again; and followed it up with "Humbug."

"Don't be cross, uncle!" said the nephew.

"What else can I be," returned the uncle, "when I live in such a world of fools as this? Merry Christmas! Out upon merry Christmas! What's Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in 'em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? If I could work my will," said Scrooge indignantly, "every idiot who goes about with 'Merry Christmas' on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart. He should!"








Whatever the origins of Christmas may be its spirit is indeed gone.

 

[sandorski]

This is all a bunch of nonsense. No one gets upset hearing "Merry Christmas", "Merry Christmas" has merely been replaced with "Happy Holidays" in order to be inclusive of an increasingly diverse population. What the "Christians" are upset about are past actions regarding Christmas displays on Public Property. They've been stewing about it for a long time and as soon as they gained a foothold of political power they now feel their oats making demands/charges that are nonsense. Christians make up the majority in the US, but the Minorities with other celebrations of equal importance to Christmas is growing and deserve equal treatment. Perhaps the holiday should be moved to Oct/Nov(whenever) to mesh with Ramadam or late January for Chinese New Year. Despite the continued rantings of many "Christians", Christianity isn't enshrined as the Official anything in the US and as such deserves no special treatment, but that's exactly what they are attempting to get.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: techs
This holiday(yes, I said holiday) season seems filled with the much talked about "War on Christmas". If I understand the fuss Christian leaders are "fighting" against Christmas themed, like the nativity, displays on public property being prohibited.
Also they are "fighting" against people using the term "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" as well as the same on greeting cards.
To my Christian friends:
Have you looked around? Christians are being persecuted and killed around the world. A billion and a quarter Chinese can't be practicing Christians. In parts of Africa to be a Christian means you stand the risk of being matcheted to death.
Children are dying by the bushels in parts of this world. Disease is killing them by bushels in others. In America Christians are facing medical bills they can't pay and heat they can't afford to buy.
And the worst enemy you can find is people who want to keep nativity scenes off public property but not anywhere else?
And the "War on Christmas" is what you choose to make important at this time of year when you celebrate your Saviours birth? A Saviour who preached peace and love and caring for you neighbor? This is how you honor him and follow in his footsteps?
I honestly don't know WHAT your leaders are doing. It seems so far from what I always believed Christians to stand for. And it makes me look at Christianity in a negative manner.
Just my 2 cents. Don't mean to offend anyone.

You've got it all wrong. It is the non-Christians who are making this an issue. The Christians just want to say "merry Christmas."

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm

Originally posted by: ntdz
I'm not religious, but it absolutely disgusts me that "Merry Christmas" is no longer politically correct...WTF???

Have a merry CHRIST-Mas .

Does that bother you

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is all a bunch of nonsense. No one gets upset hearing "Merry Christmas", "Merry Christmas" has merely been replaced with "Happy Holidays" in order to be inclusive of an increasingly diverse population. What the "Christians" are upset about are past actions regarding Christmas displays on Public Property. They've been stewing about it for a long time and as soon as they gained a foothold of political power they now feel their oats making demands/charges that are nonsense. Christians make up the majority in the US, but the Minorities with other celebrations of equal importance to Christmas is growing and deserve equal treatment. Perhaps the holiday should be moved to Oct/Nov(whenever) to mesh with Ramadam or late January for Chinese New Year. Despite the continued rantings of many "Christians", Christianity isn't enshrined as the Official anything in the US and as such deserves no special treatment, but that's exactly what they are attempting to get.

No rights are being voilated by nativity displays, much less declarations of "merry christmas." This is a happy time of year that's being humbugged by atheists.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: sandorski
This is all a bunch of nonsense. No one gets upset hearing "Merry Christmas", "Merry Christmas" has merely been replaced with "Happy Holidays" in order to be inclusive of an increasingly diverse population. What the "Christians" are upset about are past actions regarding Christmas displays on Public Property. They've been stewing about it for a long time and as soon as they gained a foothold of political power they now feel their oats making demands/charges that are nonsense. Christians make up the majority in the US, but the Minorities with other celebrations of equal importance to Christmas is growing and deserve equal treatment. Perhaps the holiday should be moved to Oct/Nov(whenever) to mesh with Ramadam or late January for Chinese New Year. Despite the continued rantings of many "Christians", Christianity isn't enshrined as the Official anything in the US and as such deserves no special treatment, but that's exactly what they are attempting to get.

No rights are being voilated by nativity displays, much less declarations of "merry christmas." This is a happy time of year that's being humbugged by atheists.

BS, as an Atheist myself I have no qualm about people greeting mea with "Merry Christmas" and niether do any other of my friends who happen to be Athiests or Agnostics. In fact I rahter enjoy it because they usually mean good tidings and I'll respond in kind or with "Happy Holidays". However now that a few Fundies have taken it upon themselves to act as some kind of Psuedo Martyrs it might not be long before the greeting "Happy Holidays" will be construed as some kind of political statement. Leave it to assholes like O'Reaily and Fundie Leaders like Falwell and Roberstson to make the Holiday Seasonn some kind of idealogical battleground.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: HotChic

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

Hmmm I have lived in Liberal CA and now in Liberal Mass and the vast majority of people I've run across are Chrisitans or call themselves Christian. Maybe what you perceive as "prejudice" against Christians is people not wanting to be preached too. If that's the case then it's good your co-workers are afraid to annoy others at their job preaching to them because it makes them better co-workers and a lot less annoying as hell!

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: HotChic

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

Hmmm I have lived in Liberal CA and now in Liberal Mass and the vast majority of people I've run across are Chrisitans or call themselves Christian. Maybe what you perceive as "prejudice" against Christians is people not wanting to be preached too. If that's the case then it's good your co-workers are afraid to annoy others at their job preaching to them because it makes them better co-workers and a lot less annoying as hell!

I have a feeling he is just full of it, but that's my interpretation of this whole "War on Christmas."

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: HotChic

I think that's where the "War on Christmas" attitude comes from. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I know several of my coworkers are afraid to admit that they are Christians at work. Rightly so, because I've seen other people very aggressively challenge them about the legitimacy of what they believe, which isn't particularly pleasant to have to deal with at work. Plus the fear of a harrassment suit. Sorry, getting off topic here.

Hmmm I have lived in Liberal CA and now in Liberal Mass and the vast majority of people I've run across are Chrisitans or call themselves Christian. Maybe what you perceive as "prejudice" against Christians is people not wanting to be preached too. If that's the case then it's good your co-workers are afraid to annoy others at their job preaching to them because it makes them better co-workers and a lot less annoying as hell!

I have a feeling he is just full of it, but that's my interpretation of this whole "War on Christmas."

Everything's a frickin "War" these days. That kind of terminology should cause pause, but it doesn't.