Christians Attacked In Michigan!

[EagleKeeper]

Freedom of speech does not extended to creating a situation that affects public safety.

Uh, yes, it does. As long as those expressing their opinion are not doing anything to endanger anyone (and no, expressing an unpopular opinion doesn't count), they are entitled to express their opinion and have their rights protected.

Otherwise, wouldn't that mean anyone expressing an opinion that some group for some reason doesn't like is "fair game" for violence?

Yelling FIRE in the middle of a theatre is not protected.

This group was looking for trouble; trying to incite a riot.

common sense has to be applied w/ respect to the law. The police did so.

If you want to stir up a fight take your chances. If you want to create a fight; the law will not allow it (throwing of a water bottle)

 

[richaron]

I'll remember this thread next time I'm riding through a small town in Alabama, on my pink tricycle, being a guy wearing my ballerina tutu, chasing down locals & calling them stupid rednecks, whilst screaming Islamist propaganda: I'll remember America has freedom of speech...

Edit: They can't touch me because the law says so. Not my fault.

 

[PokerGuy]

I just said I don't feel sorry for people who stir a hornets' nest and the whine when they get stung.

It's not the getting stung part that's the problem. That part doesn't surprise me and shouldn't surprise anyone given the situation. It's the fact that the police the department failed to uphold their rights, and in fact chose to instead harass them instead. There should be an investigation of the department by the DOJ, but given the criminals there (starting at the top), that's highly doubtful.

 

[PokerGuy]

I'll remember this thread next time I'm riding through a small town in Alabama, on my pink tricycle, being a guy wearing my ballerina tutu, & calling the locals stupid rednecks, whilst screaming islamist propaganda: I'll remember America has freedom of speech...

i would not be surprised if you got your butt kicked, but I would expect that the police would take appropriate action against those committing assault. If they didn't, they would be neglecting their duty, as they appear to have done in this case.

 

[PokerGuy]

Yelling FIRE in the middle of a theatre is not protected.

The supreme court has repeatedly ruled in cases like this that protesting is NOT the same as yelling fire in a theater, even if the crowd was likely to react in a hostile fashion to the protest.

This group was looking for trouble; trying to incite a riot.

By your logic, if a neo-nazi group decided to march somewhere, they would not be afforded protection by law enforcement because they were "looking for trouble". We've already seen plenty of those cases and the courts have been very clear: as long as there is no immediate threat against anyone, the group is entitled to their freedom of speech and to having their rights protected. "looking for trouble" does not in any way invalidate your rights to free speech without being assaulted. As long as the protesters did not threaten the group in any way, they are entitled to express their opinion. Those who threw the rocks or otherwise assaulted the protestors should have been arrested and held accountable. Not liking what someone is saying/doing does not give you the right to assault them.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Exactly, the people attacked the Christians when they could have set a good example

These particular "Christians" should have set a good example as well. I hope my point is not lost on you.

 

[richaron]

PokerGuy I admire your vigore.

Fight for your beliefs, buddy.

 

[umbrella39]

They were having a festival to spread love, have fun, & all that shit. Good on the christians for showing up! Extreme Christian protesters are doing God's work :thumbsup:

Thousands of Arab and NON Arab Christians show up every year to this festival.

These extreme Christian protesters are doing nothing even close to God's work.

 

[umbrella39]

Yeah, damn them and their silly notion that the police should protect their freedoms and liberty!

Firstly the Dearborn Police don't do the policing, they contract it out to the County. This Fest covers 17 square city blocks. 2nd... they CANNOT guarantee the safety of a group of people there to stir shit up nor should they have to. Hire your own private security, why should I as a resident of this county (I no longer live in Dearborn but still reside in Wayne County) and a taxpayer foot the bill?

 

[WelshBloke]

Yelling FIRE in the middle of a theatre is not protected.

This group was looking for trouble; trying to incite a riot.

common sense has to be applied w/ respect to the law. The police did so.

If you want to stir up a fight take your chances. If you want to create a fight; the law will not allow it (throwing of a water bottle)

Would turning up with a pigs head on a stick to protest the 'evil moooslims' fall under the fighting words doctrine?

I know that if I were a cop and things were peaceful and then a few people turned up to cause trouble I'd go with removing the troublemakers rather than possibly having to deal with a riot.

 

[cybrsage]

It's not the getting stung part that's the problem. That part doesn't surprise me and shouldn't surprise anyone given the situation. It's the fact that the police the department failed to uphold their rights, and in fact chose to instead harass them instead. There should be an investigation of the department by the DOJ, but given the criminals there (starting at the top), that's highly doubtful.

Agreed. They should have had their butts kicked, but the police should have tried to protect them as well - and arrested those attacking them.

 

[cybrsage]

These extreme Christian protesters are doing nothing even close to God's work.

Agreed. Their point would have been better served without the provocation. Signs saying "Jesus is Lord" and "Mohammed is a false prophet" would have been fine.

 

[Incorruptible]

I didn't defend the Muslims. I said the violence was not justified. I just said I don't feel sorry for people who stir a hornets' nest and the whine when they get stung.

The violence wasnt justified But do you agree they were wrong for attacking the Christians simply because everyone has freedom of speech and we cant use force against those we disagree with, the muslims could ignore or PEACEFULLY protest back but not violence

 

[Xecuter]

No they weren't, BUT they and everyone else still have freedom of speech, as long as they dont use force its good

All you do is defend muslims and attack christians

All you do is attack muslims...

 

[PokerGuy]

Firstly the Dearborn Police don't do the policing, they contract it out to the County.

Who cares? Whoever was supposed to do it didn't do their job.

Hire your own private security, why should I as a resident of this county (I no longer live in Dearborn but still reside in Wayne County) and a taxpayer foot the bill?

You as the taxpayer foot the bill because that's the price of freedom. When some idiot organization like the KKK decides to have a march somewhere and there have to be a hundred cops there to protect them, it's the same thing. I don't want my money to have to be wasted like that, but that's the price of freedom, they have the same rights as everyone else not to be assaulted.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The violence wasnt justified But do you agree they were wrong for attacking the Christians simply because everyone has freedom of speech and we cant use force against those we disagree with, the muslims could ignore or PEACEFULLY protest back but not violence

Those people are as Christian as you are Incorruptible.

 

[PokerGuy]

Would turning up with a pigs head on a stick to protest the 'evil moooslims' fall under the fighting words doctrine?

No. The fact that an action is offensive to some group doesn't mean anything in the US. You don't have a right to not be offended.

I'd go with removing the troublemakers rather than possibly having to deal with a riot.

Depends on how "troublemakers" are defined. If they are doing something illegal, then yes. Otherwise, the only "troublemakers" are those violating the law by assaulting the protesters.

 

[cybrsage]

Asking Muslims to be peaceful is considered attacking them?

 

[Jaskalas]

I'll remember this thread next time I'm riding through a small town in Alabama, on my pink tricycle, being a guy wearing my ballerina tutu, chasing down locals & calling them stupid rednecks, whilst screaming Islamist propaganda: I'll remember America has freedom of speech...

Edit: They can't touch me because the law says so. Not my fault.

You think it should be legal to harm you in that scenario?

 

[WelshBloke]

You think it should be legal to harm you in that scenario?

I think that if you did that you shouldn't really whine if you get punched in the face.

 

[WelshBloke]

No. The fact that an action is offensive to some group doesn't mean anything in the US. You don't have a right to not be offended...

Where does the fighting words doctrine kick in then?

 

[Incorruptible]

No. The fact that an action is offensive to some group doesn't mean anything in the US. You don't have a right to not be offended.



Depends on how "troublemakers" are defined. If they are doing something illegal, then yes. Otherwise, the only "troublemakers" are those violating the law by assaulting the protesters.

Agreed. These people have rights that cant be violated. The ones attacking are the ones who are causing trouble not the Christians

Even the westboro baptist church whose actions I find despicable still have freedom of speech to say whatever they want.

 

[Jaskalas]

I think that if you did that you shouldn't really whine if you get punched in the face.

Perhaps we're talking actions the police should take and the legality of assault. I say it's not legal and action should be taken, you seem to be counter arguing.

Should assault be legal?

 

[WelshBloke]

Perhaps we're talking actions the police should take and the legality of assault. I say it's not legal and action should be taken, you seem to be counter arguing.

Should assault be legal?

The police already said that they could catch the people throwing rocks after the fact, they said they didn't have the manpower to protect the idiots.

 

[her209]

If this keeps happening, the police will have to set up individual camps for each of the different religions that can't play nice together: one for Muslims, one for Christians, and one for Jews.