Christians Wrong about Heaven, Says Bishop

[bignateyk]

http://www.time.com/time/world...0,8599,1710844,00.html

In Revelation and Paul's letters we are told that God's people will actually be running the new world on God's behalf. The idea of our participation in the new creation goes back to Genesis, when humans are supposed to be running the Garden and looking after the animals.

So is the argument of many christian fundies about "humans playing god" completely wrong?

If people think "my physical body doesn't matter very much," then who cares what I do with it? And if people think that our world, our cosmos, doesn't matter much, who cares what we do with that?

A pretty interesting article that seems to go against the views of many christians. Whether you believe in an afterlife or not, much of what he is saying would radically alter dabate on certain current events (global warming, genetic engineering, etc...)

 

[elmer92413]

Very interesting read. I'll have to check out his new book.

 

[txrandom]

Does this add to the validity of Mormonism?

 

[Phokus]

marked

 

[Throckmorton]

So a core belief of most Christians is not supported by the Bible?

 

[uhohs]

according to this guy, it's misunderstood.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
So a core belief of most Christians is not supported by the Bible?

Well, it's not that it's not supported. It's just that people (according to this bishop) have gotten it all wrong over the years. There is still an afterlife, it is just not what most christians think it is.

 

[timosyy]

That title is rather broad/stereotypical. More like "Catholics" wrong about heaven, if anything...

I mean jeez, learn2read Revelation? What he's saying is nothing new, its written pretty clearly in Revelation, and one of the points that makes Christianity unique- that God is coming to redeem THIS earth, not that the world just goes to hell and all Christians go to some floaty place in the sky. Strange. It's what should prompt Christians to actually care about what happens to this earth as a whole, moreso than other religions which are more or less concerned with saving the individual soul.

"...And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and by their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. THere will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.'" -Revelation 21:3-4

If this is "new", some people really need to take reading comprehension classes.

Edit: I'm just irked because this is a pretty obvious/core belief of Christianity yet the way the article portrays it this is supposed to be some mind-blowing new way to look at life and Christians have been "wrong" all this time. Grats to the Bishop on actually reading Revelation, I guess.

 

[Crono]

I skimmed through the article fairly quickly just now, and for once it seems the media has actually talked to someone with biblical knowledge. He's right, the bible clearly does say that there is an intermediate place (Hades) where the souls of men go after death. And heaven isn't some place in the sky with clouds, it's a recreation of the heavens and the earth (God wipes out the old ones first, with a great "heat" destroying the elements of the entire physical universe).
The original primary role of man was to rule over the earth and all the animals and take care of it, much like a good gardener would. Instead, because of sin, we died spiritually and we die physically. Sin brought both death and corruption of God's order into the universe, and that is why the universe is messed up right now. Just because God is going to make the new heavens and new earth doesn't mean we don't take care of the current planet that we have (contrary to what some supposed or ignorant Christians think). While we are living on this earth we must take care of it as much as reasonably possible, because we have to deal with the consequences. You can't dump toxic waste into rivers and not expect it to harm animals and ourselves.

As for "playing God", I don't see anything in the Bible that would speak against intervening to treat diseases and altering our environment. The problem is that when people try to negate the consequences of sin instead of addressing their own need to repent of sin.

 

[yhelothar]

Polkinghorne, a physicist and a priest, has put it this way: "God will download our software onto his hardware until the time he gives us new hardware to run the software again for ourselves."

Gosh this guy should do a bible translation for us IT folks. It really puts things into perspective. :laugh:

 

[rocadelpunk]

interesting read

 

[BudAshes]

Saying Christians are wrong about heaven is like saying Tolkien was wrong about middle earth. Its all fantasy.

 

[FoBoT]

his account is similiar to what i have been taught

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
So a core belief of most Christians is not supported by the Bible?

Not the core belief, no. It's just that the "popular" view of heaven that nominal and non-Christians have is wrong. In the Old Testament the word translated "heaven" can refer to one of 3 things: 1) The atmospheric heaven (sky), 2) The cosmic heaven (outer space) or 3) The place, of a spiritual nature, that man cannot see or reach except by God's power. The 3rd heaven is the place of God's throne (metaphorically speaking) and the realm in which angels dwell. Many people (not all) over the centuries have mistakenly muddled the heavens together and thought of it as solely being the paradise that all the redeemed will be in for eternity. But that is not what is in the Bible. The Bible tells us that there will be new heavens (all 3) and a new earth, and they will be perfect and uncorrupted and be one unified realm, and that is where the redeemed will live. Heaven will literally be on (the new) earth. The book of Revelation describes what the earth will be like at that time.

 

[uhohs]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Saying Christians are wrong about heaven is like saying Tolkien was wrong about middle earth. Its all fantasy.

go back to wallowing in your childlike wonder at the beauty of nature.
kthx.

 

[Platypus]

lol

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Saying Christians are wrong about heaven is like saying Tolkien was wrong about middle earth. Its all fantasy.

go back to wallowing in your childlike wonder at the beauty of nature.
kthx.

I will, thanks. What are you going to do? Wallow in your own pessimism?

 

[KB]

Good read. Its amazing the difference between what the religious texts say and what people have been told (mostly from their spiritual leaders). These books have usually been read and interpreted by one person or group of scholars, and others must read and interpret their version, each version become further and further from the literal truth.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Saying Christians are wrong about heaven is like saying Tolkien was wrong about middle earth. Its all fantasy.

go back to wallowing in your childlike wonder at the beauty of nature.
kthx.

what

 

[BudAshes]

I think ultimately the problem people have is that we all think we need to pick a team. Unfortunately the idea of "team" is one made up by man in order to organize ourselves more effectively to survive. By picking a team and closing yourself off from outside influences you may be setting yourself up to live comfortably, but you are also setting yourself up for a life of ignorance. Its like you are putting an artificial cap on your potential as a human being.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Saying Christians are wrong about heaven is like saying Tolkien was wrong about middle earth. Its all fantasy.

go back to wallowing in your childlike wonder at the beauty of nature.
kthx.

what

I laugh,
Therefor I /b/

 

[Miramonti]

...is one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought

/article

 

[compman25]

Originally posted by: txrandom
Does this add to the validity of Mormonism?

It may not make it more valid to people who don't believe in Mormonism, but it is the same teachings.

 

[Winchester]

All this is saying is that as Christians when you die you do not go directly to Heaven. You go into a state of "timelessness" (Sheol/Hades) until Jesus returns (rapture) and the dead are judged, then Christians will go into the place He has prepared for us. The believers will go to "Heaven" and the non-believers will go to "Hell".

For example, your dead grandparents (if Christian) are not looking down from Heaven watching you. They are in the "timeless" state and we will all enter "Heaven" at the same time other Christians do. All which is true. Anyone who has actually studied the Bible can tell you this.

This is nothing new.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: Winchester
All this is saying is that as Christians when you die you do not go directly to Heaven. Right now, there is no one in Heaven or Hell. You go into a state of "timelessness" until Jesus returns (rapture) and the dead are judged, then Christians will go into the place He has prepared for us. The believers will go to "Heaven" and the non-believers will go to "Hell".

For example, your dead grandparents (if Christian) are not looking down from Heaven watching you. They are in the "timeless" state and we will all enter "Heaven" at the same time other Christians do. All which is true. Anyone who has actually studied the Bible can tell you this.

This is nothing new.

But the real question is: how many Christians have actually studied the bible. I'm guessing not a whole hell of a lot if the common perception of such a core belief is wrong.