City completely bans smoking

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: daveshel
Excellent. Simply removing smoking from buildings is not an acceptable solution if the smokers do their thing right outside the door or near a window. I have a neighbor whose parents make him smoke outside, but I can't have a window open on that side of the house without getting an asthma attack.

Cry me a fvcking river.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Instead of making it illegal they should just shoot them on sight

That would reduce population and reduce the costly amounts of wasted time and resources in the medical Industry treating people that have put themselves into a slow death knell doing the smoking.

Saves time and money.

Republicans in here have said this many times in here so they should be all for this.

Of course the ones that smoke may not agree but hey.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: daveshel
My quality of life would be greatly improved in the meantime.

Banning you from using the internet might improve my quality of life, but you don't see me trying to legislate it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

I agree, then we can shovel billions into more drug enforcement agencies. :disgust:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

Yeah, classify it as a drug! As we all know, making drugs illegal has completely stopped people from using them!

do you think there would be fewer drug users than there are now if drugs were legal and you could buy them at the next store you can find?

It might not drop but the whole system would benefit. Less crowded jails because it would lower the crime associated with drugs and and no penalties for possession/sale. Also the cops and courts could better spend their time finding and prosecuting more danger offenders.

Not to mention the local and international drug cartels will have to compete with Walmart. Good luck with all that!

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

Yeah, classify it as a drug! As we all know, making drugs illegal has completely stopped people from using them!

do you think there would be fewer drug users than there are now if drugs were legal and you could buy them at the next store you can find?

No, The number of "users" would likely increase due to people who don't use now coming into casual use (pot would be a good example). You would likely consider these people "users". My definition of "users" includes people who use to the extent that they cannot hold down a job or contribute at all to society.

However, I think there would be less CRIME problems. Think about it, if they were widely available and inexpensive due to capitalistic competition, you wouldn't have any of the shadiness of people stealing/whoring themselves/etc... for the large $$$ amounts that are required now. Those people would turn in to beggars (like we have now for booze). You can beg for $1 or $2, but you realistically cannot beg for $50-100. That's why right now there are people who would suck dick for coke. If it was legal and available cheaply at every corner store, these people would get $1 or $2 or $5 together by begging/panhandling and go get their fix.

Also, I think it would better educate the public to the negative effects associated with "overdoing" drugs. See, right now most really heavy users are segregated off into the poor / ghetto areas, and are really not seen by most of productive society. Most people don't have a friend who has lost his/her job because they did too much crystal meth. If they did, they would probably learn from their friend's experience and not go down that road themselves. See? It would pretty much serve itself, as in the long run, people would realize that: even though these substances are widely available and inexpensive, they are not positive influences when let to go out of control. They would actively make the decision not to use, vs. having that decision made for them (or at least heavily influenced) by the law and the fact that these substances are (currently) illegal.

In summary:
There would be more "casual" users.
There would be less "heavy" users.
There would be SIGNIFICANTLY less drug related crime.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: daveshel
My quality of life would be greatly improved in the meantime.

Banning you from using the internet might improve my quality of life, but you don't see me trying to legislate it.

You must be out of good arguments if you need to resort to personal slurs.

 

[Vic]

Fascism.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: daveshel
My quality of life would be greatly improved in the meantime.

Banning you from using the internet might improve my quality of life, but you don't see me trying to legislate it.

You must be out of good arguments if you need to resort to personal slurs.

That was a slur? You need a thicker skin, momma's boy.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

Further proof that they only respect the liberties they happen to agree with. They are just as willing to curtail rights as their opponents are, just in different areas.

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Enig101

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

Nice strawman. This law makes it illegal to smoke in your front yard, on property that you own.

Edit - As for banning smoking in restaurants, I think that is a violation as well. It should be up to the proprietor of the establishment not forced upon people from on high. People can vote with their feet and if they can't handle dealing with people smoking in the smoking section of said eatery then they should go somewhere else.

In my city we have such a ban, this has caused several bars to stop selling food, since most people want to smoke there; they are taking a hit in revenue because of this but it's a lesser of two evils situation - either stop selling food, or lose 80% of their customer base.

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Enig101

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

Nice strawman. This law makes it illegal to smoke in your front yard, on property that you own.

I'm not saying that isn't excessive, but it's still a leap to fascism.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Enig101
Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

I don't know about fascist, but it certainly flies in the face of freedom. There's the old saying "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." It basically means you're free to do what you want until it affects somebody else. Cigarette smoke could certainly fall under that, since it can affect those around you. While I may think that daveshel is a whiny little bitch, he does certainly have a right to complain if his neighbor's actions are affecting him. A complete ban though? If somebody is walking down the street in the middle of the night and nobody is around, who is that affecting? A complete ban is just typical knee-jerk American liberalism.

See the trans fat thread that was just started. As long as the consumer is aware that a food contains trans fats, why should any further government intervention be necessary? If the consumer knows what he's eating and chooses to eat it anyway, isn't that his choice?

Nanny state coddling of the stupid masses which results in limiting my choices is as much an assault on my freedom as the Patriot Act, and why I hate Democrats as much as I do Republican. They're different sides of the same authoritarian coin.

 

[Enig101]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Enig101
Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

I don't know about fascist, but it certainly flies in the face of freedom. There's the old saying "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." It basically means you're free to do what you want until it affects somebody else. Cigarette smoke could certainly fall under that, since it can affect those around you. While I may think that daveshel is a whiny little bitch, he does certainly have a right to complain if his neighbor's actions are affecting him. A complete ban though? If somebody is walking down the street in the middle of the night and nobody is around, who is that affecting? A complete ban is just typical knee-jerk American liberalism.

See the trans fat thread that was just started. As long as the consumer is aware that a food contains trans fats, why should any further government intervention be necessary? If the consumer knows what he's eating and chooses to eat it anyway, isn't that his choice?

Nanny state coddling of the stupid masses which results in limiting my choices is as much an assault on my freedom as the Patriot Act, and why I hate Democrats as much as I do Republican. They're different sides of the same authoritarian coin.

I agree with you that a total ban is excessive. I do think that a law prohibiting smoking in public areas has merit though, because of the threat to other people's comfort and health. I do no consider this "nanny state", but rather the government attempting to protect the public from the detrimental effects of second-hand smoke.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Enig101
I agree with you that a total ban is excessive. I do think that a law prohibiting smoking in public areas has merit though, because of the threat to other people's comfort and health. I do no consider this "nanny state", but rather the government attempting to protect the public from the detrimental effects of second-hand smoke.

Except according to the article, preventing non-smokers from second hand smoke isn't their goal. At least two people state that they'd prefer an outright ban. That goes beyond protecting individuals and straight into nanny-statism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Enig101

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Vic
Fascism.

It absolutely is.

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think this is a good idea. The same people who might be complaining about their civil liberties being violated in the name of the WoT.

Democracy is about the balance between individual freedom and the rights of the community. As an extreme example, you are not free to go around murdering people. Is that fascism?

I support making it illegal to smoke in public places like restaraunts, etc. I don't know if a city-wide ban is necessary. Second-hand smoke is only really dangerous inside, but it is certainly no pleasant to walk near someone who is smoking.

Democracy has nothing to do with any such balance. Democracy is majority rules. Nothing more. Nor is democracy at odds with fascism. In case you were unaware, Hitler and Mussolini were both democratically-elected.

 

[Starbuck1975]

do you think there would be fewer drug users than there are now if drugs were legal and you could buy them at the next store you can find?

Drug use would remain relatively the same...just look at the European model where drug use is legal, with certain restrictions in place to ensure some semblance of moderation.

The only thing that legalizing drugs would change is the number of nonviolent drug offenders in our prison system.

 

[Todd33]

If my neighbor stood in his yard blowing smoke where I could smell I'd be pissed too. I have children and as far as I know poisoning others in not a right. Smoke in your house or get a new way to slowly kill yourself. They need to add more harmful stuff to cigarettes, death should be imminent after a few days.

Back to the law, it will be hard to enforce but I assume it is just for show - to make a statement that smokers should be treated as lepers. Good for them, can't stand smokers or smoke.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Todd33
If my neighbor stood in his yard blowing smoke where I could smell I'd be pissed too. I have children and as far as I know poisoning others in not a right. Smoke in your house or get a new way to slowly kill yourself. They need to add more harmful stuff to cigarettes, death should be imminent after a few days.

Back to the law, it will be hard to enforce but I assume it is just for show - to make a statement that smokers should be treated as lepers. Good for them, can't stand smokers or smoke.

Do you live somewhere cold right now?

How do you heat your home?

What happens if you neighbor comes over and says he cant stand the smell coming from your chimney?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Todd33
If my neighbor stood in his yard blowing smoke where I could smell I'd be pissed too. I have children and as far as I know poisoning others in not a right. Smoke in your house or get a new way to slowly kill yourself. They need to add more harmful stuff to cigarettes, death should be imminent after a few days.

Back to the law, it will be hard to enforce but I assume it is just for show - to make a statement that smokers should be treated as lepers. Good for them, can't stand smokers or smoke.

Thank you for proving my point that the basis of this law is social fascism.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

Yeah, classify it as a drug! As we all know, making drugs illegal has completely stopped people from using them!

But at least it will force them to consume their drug of choice(nicotine) behind closed doors.

Every time I see a smoker I think of monkeys that are taught to smoke like this one from the thirties and how sad it is to see them hooked on such a worthless and nasty habit.

It's a terrible habit and should be heavily discouraged. Kids still think it's "cool" to smoke... how cool is emphysema?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

Yeah, classify it as a drug! As we all know, making drugs illegal has completely stopped people from using them!

But at least it will force them to consume their drug of choice(nicotine) behind closed doors.

Every time I see a smoker I think of monkeys that are taught to smoke like this one from the thirties and how sad it is to see them hooked on such a worthless and nasty habit.

It's a terrible habit and should be heavily discouraged. Kids still think it's "cool" to smoke... how cool is emphysema?

Kids also think it is cool to be a pimp and thug. Should we now outlaw hip hop?

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Czar
good law, needs more of that

better yet is to classify cigarettes as drugs, like it should be

Yeah, classify it as a drug! As we all know, making drugs illegal has completely stopped people from using them!

But at least it will force them to consume their drug of choice(nicotine) behind closed doors.

Every time I see a smoker I think of monkeys that are taught to smoke like this one from the thirties and how sad it is to see them hooked on such a worthless and nasty habit.

It's a terrible habit and should be heavily discouraged. Kids still think it's "cool" to smoke... how cool is emphysema?

Kids also think it is cool to be a pimp and thug. Should we now outlaw hip hop?

We can't legislate taste. :laugh: