-snip-What do you mean traitor? The last North/South war, the South soldiers that were part of the military pre-breakup just left and went South. They weren't traitors, they were patriots for their state/cause.
-snip-
I don't think your correct about the US military in the civil war era. I've never heard of masses of US soldiers becoming Confederates, so tell me more about that.
You gotta love all the anti USA talk here, true patriots indeed! If you don't like the system then destroy it when it doesn't work in your favor.
Questioning your government is one thing talking about killing other Americans because they have a different view point than you? Pathetic and unamerican. Talking about seceding because you don't like the direction the country is going? Yeah more patriotism there /s
If you aren't going to respect this country and it's majority rule through the good and bad then get the fuck out!
And you call yourself an American? Fuck you!
The US military does not overwhelmingly lean to the right. If you think that's wrong prove it.
They do overwhelmingly support the Constitution.
I don't think your correct about the US military in the civil war era. I've never heard of masses of US soldiers becoming Confederates, so tell me more about that.
They can have a different view point all they want. Violating my individual liberty and abusing the political process to force me to take their viewpoint will never be tolerated.
Our government SYSTEM is really pretty good. It's the populace that sucks.
Majority rule is only half the equation. There is also minority rights, and some of those basic rights that are not to be violated regardless who has the majority are explicitly enumerated in the constitution. Failure to observe those rights of the minority when you have a majority is forfeiture of your political power.
I don't believe we had much of a standing army at the start of the Civil War, so not much to argue about soldiers either leaving or staying.
Per wiki there were only about 15,000 enlisted men at that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_leadership_in_the_American_Civil_War
Fern
Law enforcement and military took an oath swearing allegiance to the constitution, not the president, and certainly not Obama.
You have as much power as me and your opinion, even backed up by a gun, means just as much as my opinion. If a 2/3rds majority of the voting public want your rights repealed then they will be repealed. Get over yourself.
No reason to think that? Do you really think someone from TX is going to go load some bombs on a jet that's bound to bomb his/her state? Or someone from FL is going to refuse to load a missle on a figher that's going to protect their state, where their friends and family are located, from the attack plane from IL?
You're insane if you think that.
The best we could all hope for if it ever comes to that is the States break up, and that's that. No fighting, no nastiness, just a split.
Let me ask you this: If TN split and joined The Middle, and The Middle decided to go start bombing the shit out of Ohio, and you were in the TN military, you'd happily load up some bombs to help Ohio be leveled? I highly think not if you've got loved ones in Ohio...
Chuck
Oh all fine and dandy when it is something that you are in favor of doing.
Now flip the table. What would you say if 2/3 majority of the voting public decided to remove the right of women to vote? Or for blacks to vote? Or to bring back slavery? Just think about that for a moment. See how ridiculous you're being?
"Majority rules" doesn't overrun rights that are protected by the Constitution. Pesky thing that Constitution is, isn't it? Deal with it.
Oh all fine and dandy when it is something that you are in favor of doing.
Now flip the table. What would you say if 2/3 majority of the voting public decided to remove the right of women to vote? Or for blacks to vote? Or to bring back slavery? Just think about that for a moment. See how ridiculous you're being?
"Majority rules" doesn't overrun rights that are protected by the Constitution. Pesky thing that Constitution is, isn't it? Deal with it.
As Doppel may be right, as its not healthy for the rich. But that is often what happens to a sick society that has allowed too much wealth concentration in too few hands. Leaving everyone else mired in poverty.
Yes, deal with it.
Unless the majority passes a constitutional amendment...
Yeah, except for that one minor detail there.
History seems to bear out my belief that people will fight to save the USA, whatever state they're from.
"Roughly a quarter of Union forces were composed of men, white and black, from the slave states."
http://www.military-history.org/blo...ought-down-the-confederacy-david-williams.htm
Sure there will be people in The Middle who want to keep the USA, just like there'll be people in The Coasts that want the same or opposite. My point is, if things deteriorated to such a point, it's not like you'd take a snapshot of military attitude today (no love lost between them and DC), transport that and apply it to the military in this future mythical time, and say, 'Look, our military is super happy to preserve the USA!' People in the military don't exist in a vaccum, they too are going to have leanings and those leanings are going to come to a head if/when The Middle breaks away from The Coasts. I think maybe you should back up and think about how bad attitudes would nationally have to get, along with conditions to make those attitudes happen, and then question if a pilot from TX, who is in TX, who can't Fing stand DC and The Coasts any longer, is going be loyal to The Middle when it secedes from the USA or if he's going to stay loyal to the USA which he and everyone he cares about has also grown to hate and not stand.
At that point in time, such a person is going to feel more loyalty to his own state than the Fed that doesn't serve him.
Chuck
Last civil war was misguided rednecks seeking to deprive rights while the union sought to protect rights of human beings by eliminating slavery.
This time it's the "reds" fighting for rights while "blue" is fighting to deprive them.
Historically, more people wish to be free than not so the side protecting freedoms is always going to be more powerful. First civil war that was the union. If there is another one, it would be reversed and the results would be the same: the side fighting for individual liberty is going to be the strongest and win.
Our country is so nationally divided on so many issues... with the line largely being drawn between the same 2 segments of the population...
We should just have ourselves a seconds civil war and get it over with...
Issues:
Gun Control
Taxes & Monetary Policy
Government Assistance Programs
Defense Policy
Religion
Sexuality/Abortion
Controlled Substances
Red states vs Blue states for control of the nation...
who wins?
our country is so nationally divided on so many issues... With the line largely being drawn between the same 2 segments of the population...
We should just have ourselves a seconds civil war and get it over with...
Issues:
Gun control
taxes & monetary policy
government assistance programs
defense policy
religion
sexuality/abortion
controlled substances
red states vs blue states for control of the nation...
Who wins?
The war started over a dispute over the federal right to levy taxes and tariffs on state commerce. Slavery was tacked on as the supposed moral justification two years after the shooting started. The US could have abolished slavery without bloodshed like every other civilized country on Earth.
And if you think the southern states would never have abolished slavery due to its economic impact, consider how the UK abolished slavery in the Commonwealth even when their agricultural interests stood to lose far more revenue than the southern states would have.
Bull. The Southern states left the Union over slavery. End of story.
Everything else is a myth perpetrated by the South becasue who wants to admit they caused all that death and destruction over slavery.
btw, just a reminder that slavery includes things like the right of a white slaveowner to rape his slave women and children, protected by the law.
just so we are clear on what the South was fighting for.
Right, the Civil War was caused by slavery. So explain why:
- The Northern abolitionists hated Lincoln for his compromise stance on slavery, and for giving speeches saying he will accept slavery in the southern states if they accepted the right of the federal government to levy tariffs as they see fit.
- The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in Confederate territory, as opposed to all states, and in 1863, two years after the war started.
Slavery was considered a dead issue after the Missouri Compromise. The only people who cared about it were radical abolitionists (i.e. John Brown). Lincoln even supported the idea of shipping freed slaves back to Africa just to get the abolitionists off his back.
The south already accepted the end of slave importation and slavery was already on the way out, just like in the Commonwealth and all of Europe. Slavery was nothing more than an excuse for the north to exert economic domination over the south.