Civilization 4; I suck

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mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally posted by: you2
I was trying that suggestion on the previous page (playing roman and making lots of petorians to try to fight early; but I couldn't take my opponents down In the end it was tanks against muskets; I was slaughtered.

I mean before you get praetorians. What do you build first second and third in your city at 4000BC? What do you research first, where do you found your second city, etc.

I guess I'll just spell it out. You want to research Bronze Working as fast as possible, and have a worker out on the same turn your discover it (two if you have lots of forests around your first city.) Then you want to chop down forests to build a settler.

Hopefully you have discovered a good site for a new city by then. You need at least 2 tiles of 3 food without improvements, or 1 tile you can immediately improve to 4 food, and hopefully a good resource like bronze or gold. If you don't have bronze in your main city, you really need it in your second or third at the very very latest. If there's no bronze anywhere you will need to research Animal Husbandry and get horses, and if you can't get that either then get Archery and focus on your economy.

You might also try playing as Louis XIV of the French. I think Augustus is better for beginners but Louis has a ton of cheap buildings. Axemen are pretty dang good early on anyway, you might not get all that much out of praetorians.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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Where are auto-loads kept; how do I load them. If I hit escape and then load game; they don't show up. I know i can get a quick save via shitf-8. In some ways it seems really weird how some very basic things are not readily availble (most games let you delete saves in the load game screen; but not this one).
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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I first research masonary; then bronze. I train warrior; worker worker; settler. I try to find stone and put second settler there. I try to build paramid. Actually I'm finding it really difficult to find stone. I find silver, gold, marble but not much stone
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
381
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Originally posted by: you2
Where are auto-loads kept; how do I load them. If I hit escape and then load game; they don't show up. I know i can get a quick save via shitf-8. In some ways it seems really weird how some very basic things are not readily availble (most games let you delete saves in the load game screen; but not this one).

They should be in the 'auto' folder of whatever directory you save to (default is C:\Users\username\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\Saves in Vista/7)
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
381
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Originally posted by: you2
I first research masonary; then bronze. I train warrior; worker worker; settler. I try to find stone and put second settler there. I try to build paramid. Actually I'm finding it really difficult to find stone. I find silver, gold, marble but not much stone

Don't bother with the pyramids, certainly don't research masonry first. If you really want a game with stone then regenerate the map until you get it in your first city. Representation is not nearly good enough to justify the cost of that strategy.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
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Originally posted by: mmnno
Originally posted by: you2
I first research masonary; then bronze. I train warrior; worker worker; settler. I try to find stone and put second settler there. I try to build paramid. Actually I'm finding it really difficult to find stone. I find silver, gold, marble but not much stone

Don't bother with the pyramids, certainly don't research masonry first. If you really want a game with stone then regenerate the map until you get it in your first city. Representation is not nearly good enough to justify the cost of that strategy.

I remember the Pyramids being the most important wonder in the earlier games. Having a Granary in every city without needing to build it was an awesome addition. Can't remember what it does in Civ 4 though. Haven't played it nearly as much as any of its predecessors, so my memory of it isn't nearly as good.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally posted by: Martimus
Originally posted by: mmnno
Originally posted by: you2
I first research masonary; then bronze. I train warrior; worker worker; settler. I try to find stone and put second settler there. I try to build paramid. Actually I'm finding it really difficult to find stone. I find silver, gold, marble but not much stone

Don't bother with the pyramids, certainly don't research masonry first. If you really want a game with stone then regenerate the map until you get it in your first city. Representation is not nearly good enough to justify the cost of that strategy.

I remember the Pyramids being the most important wonder in the earlier games. Having a Granary in every city without needing to build it was an awesome addition. Can't remember what it does in Civ 4 though. Haven't played it nearly as much as any of its predecessors, so my memory of it isn't nearly as good.

I sucked at Civ 2, but Pyramids were pretty much mandatory for me in both 2 and 3. In 4 they just give you access to all government civics. Basically that means you get representation, since that is by far the best civic for the early game. Pyramids are required for a specialist economy, but that's not a strategy Civ novices should be using, and SE isn't that great anymore anyway.

Civ 2 had a lot of essentially required wonders. Remember Leonardo's Workshop? Totally ridiculous. Civ 3 wasn't as bad but they were still pretty silly. Civ 4 is perfect as far as I'm concerned, though I do really like the great wall and hoover dam for obvious reasons.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
381
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Originally posted by: you2
Ack; then the strategy on page 1 is foobar

Hmm, that is a Specialist Economy guide. It's not such a bad idea, but that's really a strategy where you need an experienced eye to determine if you are in a situation where you should adopt that strategy. You can't just jump into any random game and decide right off the bat to go with SE, and expect optimal results. You need a handful of cities all with extremely good food production, and a fair amount of space without AI competition.

The other thing is that with all the hammers you spend getting the pyramids, and all the hammers you give up by settling a city near stone and likely putting that city in a bad location, you gimp your ability to pump out tons of units to own the world with. This is made even worse by building a settler in the very early game without chopping.

If you do follow that strategy, do bronze working first and chop your first settler in. You start with a warrior, scout for stone with that guy. If you find some in a good spot, and you also find 3-4 potential city locations with extremely abundant food, then think about going Pyramids/Caste System.

Otherwise, get the technologies you need to improve your cities. After Iron working, that probably means Animal Husbandry and/or Agriculture. Then you can go for Alphabet or Literature. Also, if a religion spreads into one of your cities, switch to it and try to spread it to your other cities. For that you either need Meditation and a monastery, or Organized religion.

Another strategy for lower difficulties, though it doesn't sound like you are yet good enough to pull this off: If you research Bronze working and Pottery, then research Priesthood and build The Oracle, you can get Metal Casting for free and build Forges everywhere. That helps you keep an advantage in production, especially with an Industrious leader. That's also very important on the longer game settings (Epic and Marathon.)

One last thing: Praetorians are good, but they are barely better than Axemen one on one and they take 25% longer to build. Praetorians are for taking out archers, generally in cities, and they don't die to chariots, but sometimes it's all about sheer numbers.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,932
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Well gee wiz then what should I try for an easy win on warlord level ? And how do I keep their bloody spies from destroying my capital.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: you2
Well gee wiz then what should I try for an easy win on warlord level ? And how do I keep their bloody spies from destroying my capital.

If you are playing your first few games then there are no easy wins

If you want to keep rival spies out then you need to build your own, use them and level them up and then keep them in your borders for counter espionage. The civics you pick can also have an effect on anti-spying as well as some of the city improvements you build.

The only 'easy' win I know of is chop/whip axemen at the early start of the game and start attacking.

Other then that the path to victory is to pick a good trading partner that preferably isn't near your border. Pick good spots for your cities to thrive in, keep a strong military (note it doesn't always have to be technological superior as there is strength in numbers), expand within your means and build strategically as to block off land access from other civs so that they may NOT expand.

Do you have any screen shots of your game or a saved file?

You may also want to check out the BAT/BUG mod as it adds some nice features to the game that will help you play with it's information feed back, city layout tools and other features. It doesn't alter gameplay at all.
 

Cabages

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
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You have no idea how much I needed this topic. Without the manual for this game, its like shooting in the dark.
My biggest question was just how the hell trading between cities works. I'll have to read through this thread when I get some time.
 

photi

Junior Member
Oct 24, 2009
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Originally posted by: Cabages
You have no idea how much I needed this topic. Without the manual for this game, its like shooting in the dark.
My biggest question was just how the hell trading between cities works. I'll have to read through this thread when I get some time.

trading is fairly straghtforward in civ4. trade routes are automatically established when you connect to other cities (your own or the AI). the top 3 yielding trade routes are the ones counted each turn and pay in commerce points.

you connect to other cities either by building a connecting road, sharing a river and/or lake, or, for overseas trade, port cities can establish connections after the discovery of (i think) navigation.

also, you want to connect all your cities back to the capital which will then act as a hub so that the commerce your trade routes and cities produce will be spread throughout your civilization. Commerce points are what is split up on the tax slider--commerce becomes either revenue, science or culture.

and to the OP, you mentioned you were playing on warlord, you might consider starting with settler and then chieftain so that you can acquire basic city/empire management skills. Beyond the Sword is difficult, i was playing and winning at monarch level in Civ 4 prior to the expansion, after BTS i had to drop down a level to prince. the AI was heavily modified for the BTS expansion (the new AI started as a mod developed by a non-firaxis employee (i think Blake is his screen name at civfanatics) known as the 'better AI').

playing on the beginner levels will give you some breathing room because the AIs will not research near as fast, they will not be near as aggressive and they will expand at a much slower rate. this will give you plenty of time to produce your settlers which should only after you have built a couple of warriors and a couple of workers. your very first build should be a warrior for exploration, and maybe even two. the goody huts are worth their wait in gold and are only available at the beginning so get them while you can.

there have been studies about the optimum start builds, and generally speaking it is either warrior warrior worker worker. or possibly warrior worker warrior worker. this is a baseline and might change if you have seafood squares that need to be worked, in which case yo uwant to research fishing (if you don't already have it) to build fishing boats because those fish/clam/crab squares are extremely valuable. you will see that opening strategies change depending on which squares are available (eg gold, stone, corn, pigs, flood plains etc), and so just remember to be nimble and let the environment steer you towards which initial techs to research and which projects to build.

but as a general rule, you should build warrior warrior worker worker (or even another warrior before the last worker). consider those first two warriors to be your explorers and try to keep them alive and wandering as long as possible. do this by using the terrains for the defense bonuses they give (hills, jungle, forest, opposite side of river all give defense bonuses) and not using those warriors to attack anything. the goal should be to explore as much territory as possible before it is claimed by the AIs...as soon as their culture occupies the terrain you cannot traverse it except by declaring war (because this will be before you can agree to open borders through diplomacy).

as others have already stated, the beginning game will make or break the rest of the game. the first 20 turns are probably the most important, and after that your next 100 turns will also heavily influence the rest of your game.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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ack. Didn't realize the start was so important. I'll try the idea on the previous page but drop the par and build my army faster. For paperfist I do have save files; and I can make screen shots.

I wonder if I don't make enough improvements around my cities; eventually my folks are becomming unhappy and I'm getting killed by spies in the late game.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: you2
ack. Didn't realize the start was so important. I'll try the idea on the previous page but drop the par and build my army faster. For paperfist I do have save files; and I can make screen shots.

I wonder if I don't make enough improvements around my cities; eventually my folks are becomming unhappy and I'm getting killed by spies in the late game.

I'll PM you my email address if you want me to take a look at your saved game.

It's almost impossible to keep citizens happy especially as the cities grow and pollute. You can keep them in check though with some improvements.

Just watch when building an army they can break your bank in a hurry. You didn't get into much detail with your attacking, but one of the most important units is siege. NotYo only can they knock down an opposing armies health points in a hurry, but they are paramount to taking a city down. You'll waste a lot of them in battle but their collateral damage is very important.

You also need to stack defenders in your offensive stacks as well as the other way around. This version of Civ really plays up the importance of sending a unit with the right strengths against the opposing unit's weaknesses.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
381
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Originally posted by: you2
ack. Didn't realize the start was so important. I'll try the idea on the previous page but drop the par and build my army faster. For paperfist I do have save files; and I can make screen shots.

I wonder if I don't make enough improvements around my cities; eventually my folks are becomming unhappy and I'm getting killed by spies in the late game.

It's vitally important that every citizen is working an improved tile. If they're not you are losing ground. That's also why it's so important to only build cities near productive resources.
 

Dorkenstein

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2004
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Woah, do the special citizens work on improved tiles just by assigning them? I didn't even think about that.
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: you2
Ack; then the strategy on page 1 is foobar

Sorry, for some reason I thought warlord was somewhere above noble in difficulty. My little strategy was more of a guide for trying something different, and really was just to show a very different strategy. You are still at the first learning stages, there is a whole world of fun in this game waiting for you. I suggest you try a game, and reload several times, and see what works best for you.

To reload from the start, go to options, load game, on the folders to the left, there is a folder that says single, open that up, under that folder is an auto folder, open that folder. There will be a save at the very beginning labeled 4000B.C. that is the start of the current game.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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I have no clue how you can assign a 'specialized' citizen to a particular tile. I know how you can select a tile to be worked.

of course this is different than workers which as far as I can tell become useless in the middle of the game(very useful at start and end; but i'd like to assign them to tiles and ahve them work the tile when there is nothing new needing to be built).

Bleh I bet I'm missing something obvious here.

Originally posted by: Dorkenstein
Woah, do the special citizens work on improved tiles just by assigning them? I didn't even think about that.

 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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No specialized citizens are what you get when you produce extra food, they don't work your tiles in a city's fat cross. If you look on the right, middle hand column you'll see icons that represent artist (culture/happiness boost), tax collector (revenue boost), scientist (knowledge boost) and engineer (production boost). With the extra food you can assign these guys by clicking on the area you want to boost in that column.

So if you have a city with a lot of food production tiles you'll end up with specialist you can assign to further multiply your efforts in those 4 areas.

The idea is to build a city on a spot with lots of food bonuses (fish/crabs/flood plains/etc) and then have that city specialize in say science. Assign all your specialist to science, build science wonders and science based city improvements there and you'll end up with a city generating a ton of beakers. That's why in an earlier comment I made the assertion that what level (50%, 60%, 70% etc) you set your science research to isn't the end all be all of what you'll generate. You can have 2 science cities set at 30% out producing a civilization with 10 cities set at 90%.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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Yea; I knew about that option but my guys always become unhappy and stop working. I wonder if I need to assign them earlier before the city grows; if stagnating city growth will keep them happy ?
 

Cabages

Platinum Member
Jan 1, 2006
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When expanding corporations, is it generally bad to expand it to competitor AI's?
I see it subtracts 3 gold, but also increases their culture. So it just depends on what means more to you, the gold you would lose or the culture the enemy would gain?
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: you2
Yea; I knew about that option but my guys always become unhappy and stop working. I wonder if I need to assign them earlier before the city grows; if stagnating city growth will keep them happy ?

You def want to have researched temples already, that would boost happiness and offset them from not wanting to work. Being in war for long periods also cause unhappiness to grow.

Archers need to be one of the first researched items as they are the best early defenders. In one city you have 2 generals installed for bonus to experience, they don't stack so use them in another city next time.

For the map you're playing you want to also research Civil Service so you can spread irrigated land around which would help growth a lot. You really need more workers working the land to get them to grow faster. Also, some of your cities could have been placed a little better to take advantage of some of the resources like corn.

Generally research things that will enable you to take advantage of the resources. There's one spot on the map with 3 gems, a city near there would have been a money printing press.

Alphabet would enable you to trade tech and possibly you could have dealt with the Ottomans in that regaurd.

Overall not bad, you're going up against Monty and he's no fun. The best thing you could have done with him was expand South faster to cut him off from expanding.

If I have time I'll play that map a bit and see if I can turn it around.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,932
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--
In one city you have 2 generals installed for bonus to experience, they don't stack so use them in another city next time.
--

I was told (earlier in this thread) that they do stack. Also my guys seem to level higher (as if they stacked). Are you sure generals don't stack?
--
I'll try going back to the 30 save game and see if I can't whack monty; that might help a lot. Also, you said that I should take civil serivce; should I actually switch gov't style or just research the skill?
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
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Originally posted by: you2
--
In one city you have 2 generals installed for bonus to experience, they don't stack so use them in another city next time.
--

I was told (earlier in this thread) that they do stack. Also my guys seem to level higher (as if they stacked). Are you sure generals don't stack?
--
I'll try going back to the 30 save game and see if I can't whack monty; that might help a lot. Also, you said that I should take civil serivce; should I actually switch gov't style or just research the skill?

Generals do stack, I usually stack them all in one military production city. If you want to send me a PM with an email, I wouldn't mind taking a look at those saves either.

Workers can be automated, (automated workers are ok, but not good) it is usually better to control the workers yourself, but if you don't know what to do with them, hitting the "A" key to automate them will have them do something useful. However, before you do go to options and select "automated workers leave old improvements" and "automated workers leave forests." That way you can chop trees when you need it or save them for the health, and your workers won't constantly change a farm to a workshop and back again.
 
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