Civilization: Beyond Earth the next Mantle game.

[VulgarDisplay]

I downloaded civ4 because I bought it on a steam sale and never played it. I havent' played a civilization game since junior high. Probably civ1...

 

[Galatian]

A few things I noticed: Firaxis switched from being an Nvidia supported to an AMD supported with the new Civilization. Both CIV and CiV have been TWIMTBP titles, in fact I remember CIV not even running on AMD cards on launch day for some kind of bug.
That being said CiV was/is actually one of the few 3DVision ready titles and one of the few games I really enjoyed playing with 3D on, which to me actually shows that Firaxis likes to tinker around with graphics technology and try to get a "head-start" on technology. I guess it really didn't work out with 3DVision, but I hope their Mantle support will be great.
Another example is their touch support for Windows 8. I mean how many developers bother to release a patch after launch that includes an entirely new interface type?

On a different note: CiV is one of the few games where I actually feel the difference of using 1600 CL9 RAM and 2400 CL9 RAM.

I'm completely hyped and hope that both AMD and nVidia bring out their new cards until then!

 

[zlatan]

A few things I noticed: Firaxis switched from being an Nvidia supported to an AMD supported with the new Civilization.

They still support NVIDIA, and they still works as a TWIMTBP studio. They just needed a new API to render the game efficiently. That's all.

 

[Galatian]

They still support NVIDIA, and they still works as a TWIMTBP studio. They just needed a new API to render the game efficiently. That's all.

Interesting. So NVidia is not all bitchy about developers using the TWIMTBP moniker AND developing for Mantle at the same time?

Then again I would imagine it's probably still mostly the same engine that's powering CiV, so why would they loose the moniker to begin with ;-)

 

[zlatan]

Interesting. So NVidia is not all bitchy about developers using the TWIMTBP moniker AND developing for Mantle at the same time?

They can't do anything to prevent it. Civ5 was very CPU-limited even with deferred context, this is certainly not the right answer for the problem. Mantle is a new hope for Firaxis.

 

[Galatian]

They can't do anything to prevent it. Civ5 was very CPU-limited even with deferred context, this is certainly not the right answer for the problem. Mantle is a new hope for Firaxis.

I still don't think that's the case with a turn based strategy game. I can run some benchmarks later on with cores disabled but my guess is, there will be only negligible difference in FPS performance.

CiV is CPU intensive in between turns, because it has to calculate all the AI and stuff. Mantle won't change that. I think what they should look into is including a possibility to leverage OpenCL to these calculations, now that would be a game changer (pun intended)

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I still don't think that's the case with a turn based strategy game. I can run some benchmarks later on with cores disabled but my guess is, there will be only negligible difference in FPS performance.

CiV is CPU intensive in between turns, because it has to calculate all the AI and stuff. Mantle won't change that. I think what they should look into is including a possibility to leverage OpenCL to these calculations, now that would be a game changer (pun intended)

The thing to remember is that the CPU will take much less of a hit to perform draw calls so all those extra cycles can work more efficiently on running the ai.

 

[Silverforce11]

I still don't think that's the case with a turn based strategy game. I can run some benchmarks later on with cores disabled but my guess is, there will be only negligible difference in FPS performance.

CiV is CPU intensive in between turns, because it has to calculate all the AI and stuff. Mantle won't change that. I think what they should look into is including a possibility to leverage OpenCL to these calculations, now that would be a game changer (pun intended)

Think about what you are saying. Even if Civ V is only CPU intensive between turns (not true, according to plenty of reviews with CPU scaling), Mantle will reduce the drawcall overhead so that the CPU can focus on "AI and stuff" more, hence, completing the turn faster.

Definitely agreed that OpenCL or DirectCompute could be leveraged to assist in CPU intensive calculations.

CoH2 did just that for the dynamic snow calculations, something that would have destroyed CPUs.

ps. The last time I played Civ 5 was about a year ago, and late game on massive maps, I spent more time waiting for AI turn than actually playing my own turn. Not good.

 

[bystander36]

The only time it is CPU demanding during draw calls is if you zoom out to see the whole world at once on a large map. I don't imagine many play that way, as you can't see the details easily.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The only time it is CPU demanding during draw calls is if you zoom out to see the whole world at once on a large map. I don't imagine many play that way, as you can't see the details easily.

That doesn't change the fact that there are draw calls being issues while the ai is moving. Mantle will alleviate this and keep things moving more smooth.

 

[bystander36]

That doesn't change the fact that there are draw calls being issues while the ai is moving. Mantle will alleviate this and keep things moving more smooth.

I don't know about that. When ever the AI is calculating, nothing happens on the screen. I have my doubts on how much it would really help, not to mention it is only one thread of 4-12, depending on your CPU. I really don't see how it'll help the AI calculation times much. Maybe a tiny bit, but I don't see it doing a lot.

 

[sontin]

They still support NVIDIA, and they still works as a TWIMTBP studio. They just needed a new API to render the game efficiently. That's all.

Nonsense. If they were under the TWIMTBP banner they wouldn't use Mantle.

 

[postmortemIA]

I don't know about that. When ever the AI is calculating, nothing happens on the screen. I have my doubts on how much it would really help, not to mention it is only one thread of 4-12, depending on your CPU. I really don't see how it'll help the AI calculation times much. Maybe a tiny bit, but I don't see it doing a lot.

In CIV V, when non-affecting AI moves are processed (like city states far away from you), you still can move around the earth, so gfx engine is running in parallel with the AI. However, it is not done perfectly (game is still buggy), so you can get to a state where display is moving even when you stop moving mouse.
CIV V is more buggy than its predecessors. CIV IV was almost the same story, but after dozen of patches it got all major bugs sorted out.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I don't know about that. When ever the AI is calculating, nothing happens on the screen. I have my doubts on how much it would really help, not to mention it is only one thread of 4-12, depending on your CPU. I really don't see how it'll help the AI calculation times much. Maybe a tiny bit, but I don't see it doing a lot.

If I understand it correctly unless the screen goes black the CPU is issuing thousands of draw calls (depending on scenes) for every frame even if the objects are not moving. Others can probably elaborate on this far more than me.

Anything that is drawn by the GPU was a draw call from the CPU. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong because this is just my rudimentary understanding.

 

[bystander36]

In CIV V, when non-affecting AI moves are processed (like city states far away from you), you still can move around the earth, so gfx engine is running in parallel with the AI. However, it is not done perfectly (game is still buggy), so you can get to a state where display is moving even when you stop moving mouse.
CIV V is more buggy than its predecessors. CIV IV was almost the same story, but after dozen of patches it got all major bugs sorted out.

From my experience, it'll animate and calculate at the same time, unless it falls behind on the AI, then it will stop until it catches up, which only happens late in the game.

I can see it might help a tiny bit. I just don't expect much.

 

[OCGuy]

This is another partnered game, I don't think you can really call it a "win" until the API is released and is picked up without being subsidized. Nobody really expects that though.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

This is another partnered game, I don't think you can really call it a "win" until the API is released and is picked up without being subsidized. Nobody really expects that though.

There was a slide from gdc that says the beta version of the api is opening this April. Its closed beta (they will select who gets access so joe schmoe can't get it) still, but its another step towards getting it into more games.

 

[zlatan]

Nonsense. If they were under the TWIMTBP banner they wouldn't use Mantle.

What should they use if not Mantle? They don't have choice. Mantle is far better than any existing API in the segment. Sure they can, and I think they will optimize for D3D11 deferred context, and OpenGL "zero overhead", but these are not enough.
Everybody have to understand that Mantle is the only API now that designed for low-level access and simplicity (easy to use) in mind.

 

[Silverforce11]

This is another partnered game, I don't think you can really call it a "win" until the API is released and is picked up without being subsidized. Nobody really expects that though.

On that sense, is there a game with GPU accelerated PhysX that wasn't an NV partnered game?

Surely that means PhysX is subsidized so its no good? I don't understand your logic.

Being a partner to NV or AMD gets you hardware and technicians to assist in using your API. The only question is why wouldn't you want that as a developer?

 

[sontin]

What should they use if not Mantle? They don't have choice. Mantle is far better than any existing API in the segment. Sure they can, and I think they will optimize for D3D11 deferred context, and OpenGL "zero overhead", but these are not enough.
Everybody have to understand that Mantle is the only API now that designed for low-level access and simplicity (easy to use) in mind.

They use Mantle because they are in AMD's developer programm. Simple.

 

[3DVagabond]

This is another partnered game, I don't think you can really call it a "win" until the API is released and is picked up without being subsidized. Nobody really expects that though.

That's likely the only way to get access to Mantle.

 

[ShintaiDK]

What should they use if not Mantle? They don't have choice. Mantle is far better than any existing API in the segment. Sure they can, and I think they will optimize for D3D11 deferred context, and OpenGL "zero overhead", but these are not enough.
Everybody have to understand that Mantle is the only API now that designed for low-level access and simplicity (easy to use) in mind.

There are still nobody that uses Mantle on free will. Only when sponsored via AMD to pay the cost. Thats how "great" it is.

 

[zlatan]

They use Mantle because they are in AMD's developer programm. Simple.

To get Mantle you must join the GE development program. But feel free to join Nvidia and Intel also.
Look at Oxide. They have partnered with all the three big company.

 

[desprado]

There are still nobody that uses Mantle on free will. Only when sponsored via AMD to pay the cost.

And none of developers are so stupid that they will mainly focus on minority .

IMO only right now AAA game that support Mantle is Bf4 and Thief is not AAA game.This year most of AAA games developers parented with Nvidia.

 

[desprado]

To get Mantle you must join the GE development program. But feel free to join Nvidia and Intel also.
Look at Oxide. They have partnered with all the three big company.

yup and star citizen too.