Civilization: Beyond Earth the next Mantle game.

[zlatan]

There are still nobody that uses Mantle on free will. Only when sponsored via AMD to pay the cost. Thats how "great" it is.

Why not? I will use it because it's an advantage to my customers. And also an advantage to me, because Mantle is a very simple API, exactly what I need for PC. D3D11 and OpenGL has very unpredictable performance, and this is drives me crazy.
You know many people just think that xy game has a very bad optimization. But this is mainly come from the API. Mantle is a way to make things better. Why not use it?

 

[3DVagabond]

There are still nobody that uses Mantle on free will. Only when sponsored via AMD to pay the cost. Thats how "great" it is.

Source?

 

[SirPauly]

Mantle is far better than any existing API in the segment. .

How do you figure that? When it fragments the market and only offered for the GCN architecture?

 

[SimsReaper]

I've played every Civ game, and in my uneducated opinion, graphics optimization has never really been very high on their list. I find it interesting that so many people on here comment right away about wins for AMD, or fps, or, well, anything other than pure speculation and hope for the gameplay. Civ games come out and cripple decent systems for framerate every time. Mantle won't really make a difference here. If you are running a mid-range system right now, in 6 months when the game is released, you will be unable to run it above 30 fps on max settings. But, because its a turn based game, it won't really hinder gameplay, which has always been the bottom line for the Civ games. I have no doubt that Mantle will help, but it will also run DX12, meaning that Nvidia cards will have arguments for them as well.

Say what you will, but this is a game still months away from releasing and anything can happen. And before you say it will be a win for anyone, wait until release. Look at all the games in the last few years that have claimed crossfire or sli optimization, only to release with features like that being extremely buggy or unpolished, causing people on either side to turn on their fanboy brands, and jump ship. Haha, this is happening right now with Titanfall, for both crossfire and sli, and its not even AMD or Nvidia's fault, but rather Respawn who hasn't coded for multi-gpu integration. THat doesn't matter though, as people on both forums are screaming bloody murder at their GPU manufacturers.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I've played every Civ game, and in my uneducated opinion, graphics optimization has never really been very high on their list. I find it interesting that so many people on here comment right away about wins for AMD, or fps, or, well, anything other than pure speculation and hope for the gameplay. Civ games come out and cripple decent systems for framerate every time. Mantle won't really make a difference here. If you are running a mid-range system right now, in 6 months when the game is released, you will be unable to run it above 30 fps on max settings. But, because its a turn based game, it won't really hinder gameplay, which has always been the bottom line for the Civ games. I have no doubt that Mantle will help, but it will also run DX12, meaning that Nvidia cards will have arguments for them as well.

Say what you will, but this is a game still months away from releasing and anything can happen. And before you say it will be a win for anyone, wait until release. Look at all the games in the last few years that have claimed crossfire or sli optimization, only to release with features like that being extremely buggy or unpolished, causing people on either side to turn on their fanboy brands, and jump ship. Haha, this is happening right now with Titanfall, for both crossfire and sli, and its not even AMD or Nvidia's fault, but rather Respawn who hasn't coded for multi-gpu integration. THat doesn't matter though, as people on both forums are screaming bloody murder at their GPU manufacturers.

Civ: be will not have dx12 because dx12 isn't coming until late 2015.

 

[Subyman]

I fired up Civ5 again... oh boy, I lost all last night. I accidentally left it on the highest turn setting and am 6-8 hours and I haven't even gotten to the industrial age. I forgot how awesome the game is.

 

[zlatan]

How do you figure that? When it fragments the market and only offered for the GCN architecture?

The market is fragmented without Mantle. But if you don't like the PC environment than you can buy a console. What I want is an API with predictable performance. This is the key to optimize efficiently, and only Mantle gives this right now. I can't do to much for my customers with D3D11 and OGL, these APIs are just to limited. But Mantle is a chance to optimize the game further, and you can buy a hardware for it if you want. If not that's not a problem either, I will optimize to D3D11, but I want to give you an opportunity for better performance.

 

[SirPauly]

What do you mean by your customers? Are you a developer?

 

[96Firebird]

So, zlatan, what games have you released that use Mantle? If none, how long have you been working with it?

And I don't see how Mantle will benefit the end user in this Civ game. Isn't the main benefit of Mantle to reduce draw calls? Do the older Civ games become draw call limited under DX?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not much draw calls going on in turn based games

Weak CPU and you gonna die of old age by waiting for AI. Mantle or not.

 

[zlatan]

What do you mean by your customers? Are you a developer?

Yes.

So, zlatan, what games have you released that use Mantle? If none, how long have you been working with it?

I'm working on a project, but I can't talk about it now.

And I don't see how Mantle will benefit the end user in this Civ game. Isn't the main benefit of Mantle to reduce draw calls? Do the older Civ games become draw call limited under DX?

Mantle is a full re-design of the existing API concept. It works better with the modern hardwares.
Personally I think Mantle main benefit is predictable performance. But some developers will say the improved batch performance, or the explicit control over the videomemory. These are also true.

Civ5 was one of the most draw call limited game ever. But Mantle can help in other situations. For example Firaxis developed a software tessellation solution in compute shader. It works faster and gives better results. Mantle support async compute, so the tessellation can be really cheap (almost free) with this API.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I'm working on a project, but I can't talk about it now.

Thats so convenient...

 

[TerryMathews]

Thats so convenient...

Certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened here.

 

[Subyman]

Thats so convenient...

What? I'd be surprised if he could talk about what he's working on. Contractual work always carries an NDA.

 

[zlatan]

Thats so convenient...

A game with zombies. That's all I can say.

 

[HurleyBird]

LFD3 confirmed

 

[3DVagabond]

How do you figure that? When it fragments the market and only offered for the GCN architecture?

Mantle shook things up. We are getting closer to metal in DX now. Something the devs have been asking for for years but MS wouldn't go along with.

Thats so convenient...

What's your point? Are you not familiar with NDA's?

We've had Devs here before and they've been treated rudely and called out and left. Why don't you take some time to get educated a bit by someone who has a working knowledge of API's and Mantle?

 

[Bateluer]

Thats so convenient...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

 

[Revolution 11]

zlantan, can you expand on the predictable performance comment? Because the way I see it, even if you have Mantle, different consumers have different GPUs. You still have to code the game in a way that it can run on low-end hardware and still take advantage of better PCs.

How would a different API change this problem?

How would Mantle prevent the problem of diverse hardware for consumers in a way different from DirectX?

And how do you feel about DirectX 12, which will supposedly have many of the "direct metal" traits that Mantle was developed for.

(Please excuse the rude responses, we are not all like this. : )

 

[Keysplayr]

What? I'd be surprised if he could talk about what he's working on. Contractual work always carries an NDA.

Well I'm surprised he isn't working on it instead of piddling around forums praising it.

Mantle will run into it's own set of limitations just like any other API does. Different doesn't always equal better. Just different.

 

[rtsurfer]

Well I'm surprised he isn't working on it instead of piddling around forums praising it.

Mantle will run into it's own set of limitations just like any other API does. Different doesn't always equal better. Just different.

I am surprised, what are you doing on the forums.?
Don't know you have some work to do..??

If you don't try something different & just stick to what you know.
The rate of Innovation in this world will substantially slow down.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

Random BS is another option.

 

[Keysplayr]

What are you doing on the forums.?
Don't know you have some work to do..??

If you don't try something different & just stick to what you know.
The rate of Innovation in this world will substantially slow down.

Very defensive. And you can have this other conversation by yourself. Nobody even remotely alluded that something new or different shouldn't be tried. So enjoy

 

[Gikaseixas]

Well I'm surprised he isn't working on it instead of piddling around forums praising it.

Mantle will run into it's own set of limitations just like any other API does. Different doesn't always equal better. Just different.

He's free to use any forum he likes and praise stuff he likes. It's clear that it bothers you and that's why you attacking the guy.

Different in this case is better as Mantle improves performance compared with what's available to the public.

 

[rtsurfer]

Very defensive. And you can have this other conversation by yourself. Nobody even remotely alluded that something new or different shouldn't be tried. So enjoy

There is no need to defend something, unless it is being attacked.

Judging something different isn't better shouldn't be done until the different has had sufficient time to get going.

DirectX didn't get where it is in a day or in 2 years for that matter.
Mantle has had its time, almost an 1 year now, but still nowhere near DirectX time.