Civilization Beyond Earth

[Anteaus]

The original Alpha Centauri was just a reskinned Civ II. All of these types of games, whether we are talking about Civ, Alpha Centauri, Call to Power, or even Pandora, share the same basic gameplay progression. It is only on how these elements are mixed together that create the feel of the game.

Civ V was quite good but admittedly it took a couple of expansions to hit that point. If the basic Civ formula bores you, then you will likely be underwhelmed; however, that says more about how you see this entire game genre than Civilization Beyond Earth specifically.

BrightCandle, you are probably right about the video. They need to show more C:BE specific features to help differentiate it from the core Civ series, otherwise many fans are going to be jaded and slow to react.

 

[CakeMonster]

I think Civ has only improved so far in the series. It takes a bit of getting used to, but I can never go back to an older one without being very annoyed. I'm totally onboard with one unit per tile + hexagons.

The formula of introducing more features with xpacs is interesting. With 3/4/5 you first got the barebones game, then things like religion/corporations/espionage were introduced making the game different and more complex with xpacs. I often prefer something in the middle, for example I always disable espionage.

CBE I'm having mixed feelings about. The setting is interesting but frankly it could be boring rather than exotic if buildings/techs/resources/sciences do the same thing but just have fictitious names. The free flow science tree I guess looks sexy but I'm not sure if its something people really want. As for the art I get bored with the the "dark neon" landscape rather quickly compared to a lush green earth like map.

I guess we'll see.. If this fails they better have Civ6 ready quick.

 

[Elcs]

How is Endless Legend shaping up?

It makes it very difficult to balance, though, when you have to constantly spend req to replenish your squads of numerous squishy dudes while the marines are more likely to escape an encounter with everyone intact

Endless Legend feels pretty good but I need to get my head down and play it a lot more to be able to tell. From what I can tell so far, if you liked Endless Space then you'll like Endless Legend if you're happy with a Fantasy setting.

True on the balance aspect but I really think it's 'better' that way from a feel aspect. It fits in much better with my perception of the universe from the lore I've read.

Ah yes. I was talking about the single player portion. I can see how the MP would be a lot of fun. DoW1 Dark Crusade totally decimated any other RTS I played prior to it. The conquest campaign was incredible. I just started played DoW2: Retribution. I'm having a hard time getting through the first few missions, they are soooooo boring.

I've read a ton of WH40k fiction too. Horus Heresy (1-10), several Dan Abnett, and so forth. I don't really care if the gameplay aligns with the lore.

This is what irked a lot of the Battletech fans with Mechwarrior Online. For a large proportion of the playerbase in the early Beta stages they made so many changes away from the lore for 'gameplay reasons' that you might as well call it Big Stompy Robots Online because it's no longer Mechwarrior or Battletech.

In my opinion, Dawn of War 2 took a large step in the right direction for gameplay and lore. To move back toward Dawn of War 1 territory would only be a negative. The sheer larger number of units in 1 is the only thing I find that it holds over 2, it better dealt with the 'scale' of conflicts in the 40k universe.

Civ 5 used hex grids as well, so not new in the civ range.

And hexes did not convince me in Civ 5. I remain unconvinced. Not quite sure why your comment was placed here.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I have Beyond Earth on my wishlist, and also Brave New World from Civ 5 (I have all the other Civ 5 DLC).

Does Brave NEw World bring anything earthshakingly fun to the Civ gameplay, or can I pretty much just wait for Beyond Earth? Always looking for the opportunity to remove something from my steam wishlist without buying it.

Also, are there any first or third person WH40k shooters besides Space Marine? I've been loving that game, only got 12,000 kills so far though. And I say first/third person shooters because, while I know there are RTS games, I have trouble enjoying those.

 

[Anteaus]

I have Beyond Earth on my wishlist, and also Brave New World from Civ 5 (I have all the other Civ 5 DLC).

Does Brave NEw World bring anything earthshakingly fun to the Civ gameplay, or can I pretty much just wait for Beyond Earth? Always looking for the opportunity to remove something from my steam wishlist without buying it.

Also, are there any first or third person WH40k shooters besides Space Marine? I've been loving that game, only got 12,000 kills so far though. And I say first/third person shooters because, while I know there are RTS games, I have trouble enjoying those.

Brave New World rounds out the experience and lets Civ V actually live up to the hype. I think it is very much worth it if you plan on putting some more time in, but it won't change the gameplay dramatically enough to make it feel like a new game. It's only $7.50 today on Steam so I'd just grab it and play.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Brave New World rounds out the experience and lets Civ V actually live up to the hype. I think it is very much worth it if you plan on putting some more time in, but it won't change the gameplay dramatically enough to make it feel like a new game. It's only $7.50 today on Steam so I'd just grab it and play.

I watched a bit of BNW gameplay on youtube, I'm thinking about it....

But in the meantime, the civ 5 tech tree makes me wonder. What is the deepest, most complex RTS/turn-based/4x/whatever in terms of tech and, more importantly, the ability to zoom in and see it from individual soldier (or small unit) level?

Like, if you research masonry in such a game, you can then build masonry fortifications, and it takes a sapper unit longer to bust through. Civ 5 doesn't really have that kind of battle system...

 

[norseamd]

I was a big fan of dawn of war, so hopefully this will be something along the lines of that. Dawn of War was a very fun game and I was also a big fan of the Age of Empires franchise. If you add some cool war features maybe it will be as fun as the others i've played. I might give it a try, I remember Civilization V and it was very good.

Those are RTS. Civilization games are usually TBS.

 

[norseamd]

With Civ games, I find the expansions really add to the games. So I'll be waiting for a gold pack before I pick it up. Really looking forward to it though.

I do not put much faith in Sid Meier or Firaxis these days. All of the games from Civ to Civ 4 were good. Civ 5 is rolling downhill and I am waiting to see how crap turns out. They take at least 1/4 of the base game out to sell as DLC and I am sure they do some of the same with the expansions. Everything is more mainstream, overinfluenced by marketing, and way too much focus on accessibility. Even Civ 4 was trending towards these elements but the additions to gameplay can outweigh the downsides. I do like some of the additions to Civ 5 but they are just going too much in the wrong direction with the base fundamentals of the game. And Sid Meier seems like he is even getting into the mobile industry so I am just expecting more of the same. I would look towards new developers and new games and franchises.

 

[norseamd]

Civ 5 used hex grids as well, so not new in the civ range.

No it did not.

 

[norseamd]

It's only $7.50 today on Steam so I'd just grab it and play.

Might as well just go and buy the complete edition and get all the DLC for not much more.

 

[norseamd]

I watched a bit of BNW gameplay on youtube, I'm thinking about it.... But in the meantime, the civ 5 tech tree makes me wonder. What is the deepest, most complex RTS/turn-based/4x/whatever in terms of tech and, more importantly, the ability to zoom in and see it from individual soldier (or small unit) level? Like, if you research masonry in such a game, you can then build masonry fortifications, and it takes a sapper unit longer to bust through. Civ 5 doesn't really have that kind of battle system...

As I have mentioned before on this board I have a concept for a game that combines the Civilization, Total War, and the Paradox grand strategy games all together in one big strategy game. Turn-based campaign map with real time battles. includes technology research and lot of diplomatic and strategic gameplay.

I fully release this concept into the public domain and consider it prior art. Obviously in this world such stuff we need to realize and think about consider how it impacts human civilization.

 

[Maximilian]

The original Alpha Centauri was just a reskinned Civ II.

That is so wrong on so many levels :|

 

[chimaxi83]

Those are RTS. Civilization games are usually TBS.

I do not put much faith in Sid Meier or Firaxis these days. All of the games from Civ to Civ 4 were good. Civ 5 is rolling downhill and I am waiting to see how crap turns out. They take at least 1/4 of the base game out to sell as DLC and I am sure they do some of the same with the expansions. Everything is more mainstream, overinfluenced by marketing, and way too much focus on accessibility. Even Civ 4 was trending towards these elements but the additions to gameplay can outweigh the downsides. I do like some of the additions to Civ 5 but they are just going too much in the wrong direction with the base fundamentals of the game. And Sid Meier seems like he is even getting into the mobile industry so I am just expecting more of the same. I would look towards new developers and new games and franchises.

No it did not.

Might as well just go and buy the complete edition and get all the DLC for not much more.

As I have mentioned before on this board I have a concept for a game that combines the Civilization, Total War, and the Paradox grand strategy games all together in one big strategy game. Turn-based campaign map with real time battles. includes technology research and lot of diplomatic and strategic gameplay.

I fully release this concept into the public domain and consider it prior art. Obviously in this world such stuff we need to realize and think about consider how it impacts human civilization.

So that is how one amasses 6000+ posts in 8 months... Cool.

Also, Civ 5 does use hex grids. Other than upping your post count, do you have any idea what you're talking about?




Stop the threadcrapping and the callout.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Anteaus]

That is so wrong on so many levels :|

Lol I know. I was responding to the person who said that C:BE is just a reskinned Civ V. I said that if C:BE is just a reskin of Civ V then AC was just a reskin of Civ II.

 

[Anteaus]

No it did not.

Yes it did. Did you actually play the game or just criticize it from a distance like many people?

 

[Bateluer]

No it did not.

Yes, Civ5 used hex grid.

 

[norseamd]

Also, Civ 5 does use hex grids. Other than upping your post count, do you have any idea what you're talking about?

I thought he meant Civ 5 used hexes very well which it did not.

 

[norseamd]

Yes, Civ5 used hex grid.

Was a misunderstanding.

 

[norseamd]

Yes it did. Did you actually play the game or just criticize it from a distance like many people?

Yes I have the game.

 

[Anteaus]

I loved that they went to hex and I love that you can only have one unit per tile. That said, I would have preferred it to be more dense. I think the hexes were too large. If they had made them half as large we could have had many more tiles to use strategically. I guess they might be worried about getting to much like hard core strategy games.

 

[solsa]

It never got better than civ ii. You cannot move into square adjacent to enemy unit. That's what made Civ what it was. They destroyed that rule, they destroyed the game.
Just waiting to see how this plays out.

 

[norseamd]

It never got better than civ ii. You cannot move into square adjacent to enemy unit. That's what made Civ what it was. They destroyed that rule, they destroyed the game. Just waiting to see how this plays out.

Medieval 2 has a rule where when you are adjacent to the enemy you can only move one tile to another tile adjacent to the enemy. otherwise if you withdraw you have full movement or all the movement you had left.

Civ 2 is still the game with the most playtime for me so I know where you are coming from. Civ 3 had a major gameplay upgrade in the resources but otherwise did not lose much in gameplay from Civ 2. Civ 4 got rid of attack and defense and just gave every unit in the game a power characteristic which in my opinion was a mistake.

 

[norseamd]

I loved that they went to hex and I love that you can only have one unit per tile. That said, I would have preferred it to be more dense. I think the hexes were too large. If they had made them half as large we could have had many more tiles to use strategically. I guess they might be worried about getting to much like hard core strategy games.

Hexes suck. Nothing more. They have no more strategic thinking. You went from 8 movement options to 6 movement options. Also this one unit per tile crap is just dumb and annoying with no real point. The fact is the army gameplay element from the last Civilizations was never fully designed and implemented. I want to see a full size army march together just like Total War and where you tactically use them together in combined arms compared to the unrealistic implementation of individual units fighting by themselves.

The idea for hexes was not to improve gameplay but to increase the nostalgia triviality for marketing to older gamers who are still interested in this game. Do you see all the other companies who are doing the same and claiming that turn based games have so much more strategic gameplay. Thought that was known as wrong since the old IE games came out with real time with pause but the truth is never going to satisfy just like zealots in other cultural areas of civilization. Larian studios is one example of a company that is doing this. Just look at all the questioning and diatribe Obsidian Games had to deal with just because they made the game real time with pause and other crap like modeling the game in 3d first then turning it into 2d. Literally there are guys who care that Obsidian actually knows that 3d is in some ways less problematic and more powerful and that they used it for their end but the fact that the game is still 2d is irrelevant. And there is or was constant posting by individuals who were threatening to drop their pledge if Obsidian did or did not do such and or such. Feargus Erquhart even made jokes about all of the mess. This is nothing more than marketing of the same level as COD.

 

[Anteaus]

Hexes suck. Nothing more. They have no more strategic thinking. You went from 8 movement options to 6 movement options. Also this one unit per tile crap is just dumb and annoying with no real point. The fact is the army gameplay element from the last Civilizations was never fully designed and implemented. I want to see a full size army march together just like Total War and where you tactically use them together in combined arms compared to the unrealistic implementation of individual units fighting by themselves.

I'll concede that 8 directions of travel is better than 6 directions of travel, but that is pretty much the only advantage squares have. There are other reasons that hexes are the defacto standard for war gaming. They don't keep it around for nostalgia purposes. Firaxis is trying to add more legitimacy to the series.

As to the multiple units per tile suggestion, that just isn't the game Civ is anymore. Games like Hearts of Iron simulate the entire stack simultaneously using numerous real world stats, whereas the "deathstack" was just silly. Unless you want Civ to go more hardcore, I'm not sure what they could do. That's why I suggested a more dense map...we can still keep one unit per tile, except that we have more tiles and thus more units in play.

If you're serious about getting back to square tiles, you should email Gary Grigsby and get his opinion on it. He is at the top of the pyramid when it comes to these types of games and I bet he can give you numerous reasons why he used hexes in War in the Pacific and War in the East. Those are two of the most respected PC strategy games in the history of the platform.

 

[darkewaffle]

I was happy with the gameplay of Civ 5 for the most part. The two things I'd really like to see addressed are tech victory / tech tree progression (tech victory is too easily 'independently' achieved and I think I'd like to see more 'branches' in it) and multiplayer performance/stability. If they can improve just that much I'd call it a win.