Clarkdale proves that HT is NOT a gimmick

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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
No, I was referring to the performance improvement by HT throughout the review. Power consumption - well, I don't think I need to back that up with links. Any i5/i7 users know HT pushes the CPU harder.

P.S. According to the graph you linked it's more like 11%, not 5%. (70W to 78W)
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,882
3,230
126
wow..

you guys are calling him a fan boy because he's showing off a 32nm dual core with HT?
Because i think his comment was a meant as a joke...

This is really funny...

Well im gonna keep quiet, a lot of you guys think im an Intel Fanboy also.
But my taste in intel is the higher branded stuff, which happens to rape AMD. :\
 
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maniac5999

Senior member
Dec 30, 2009
498
2
81
2nded, Being a fanboy disqualifies you from saying anything about a processors performance (its called bias).
Just liking something doesn't make you incapible of providing objective information about it. (I love my old Athlon 3200+ Lappy, but it sucks)

Hey Zeus provided a good set of benchmarks about a i3 @ 4.8ghz and a PII 965 @ 3.8ghz, I think that it's quite telling that the PII walks all over the i3 despite having a Ghz less clockspeed. Granted the PII can probably go a decent bit higher, but remember, we don't know how high the 32nm process can go either. Granted, 1.42v seems high, seeing as how 1.45v seems to be the magic number for an everyday OC of a 45nm chip, but we shall see if that voltage is too high or not.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,211
597
126
wow..

you guys are calling him a fan boy because he's showing off a 32nm dual core with HT?
Because i think his comment was a meant as a joke...
For real. Let him enjoy the new tech. 4.6 GHz on air cooling is not an easy feat by any metric.

which happens to rape AMD. :\
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Here mine on my PII 965 C3 @ 3.9ghz


The overclock on that Clarkdale is sweet! But I gotta say that This benchmark is a joke. Am I supposed to believe that a Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz is almost 70-80% faster than Phenom II @ 3.9ghz...>>? obviously this bench just lost all credibility since it has nothing to do with real world performance. I think we should focus on the overclocking achievement but if you are going to include benchmarks, they have to be games or something that isn't purely synthetic.

 
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Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
I thought we knew better than to use synthetic benches? How about some games with built-in benches, that should be easy and more relevant. Farcry2, WIC, Lost Planet, just to name a few.
 

deimos3428

Senior member
Mar 6, 2009
697
0
0
If Hey_Zeus were a fanboy, the blue bars would be longer than the red bars...though it would be more interesting to see a comparison between the i3 540 and the Athlon II X2 250.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,882
3,230
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The overclock on that Clarkdale is sweet! But I gotta say that This benchmark is a joke. Am I supposed to believe that a Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz is almost 70-80% faster than Phenom II @ 3.9ghz...>>?

when it comes to multi threaded aps which use HT..

the answer is YES.
 

brandonwh64

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2009
1,543
0
76
The overclock on that Clarkdale is sweet! But I gotta say that This benchmark is a joke. Am I supposed to believe that a Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz is almost 70-80% faster than Phenom II @ 3.9ghz...>>? obviously this bench just lost all credibility since it has nothing to do with real world performance. I think we should focus on the overclocking achievement but if you are going to include benchmarks, they have to be games or something that isn't purely synthetic.


Im not worried about it russain. My system in pretty fast and does everything i need it to.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
There is no megahalem cooler on that review that I can find. Also, they don't give enough specs on what platform they were cooling. Bad review IMO.


But them if you look at their top 5, the megahalem is number one by temperature !!!


FrostyTech doesn't bother to cool a platform. Instead, they use a hotplate device set to either 85W of heat output or 150W output. But unfortunately, it represents very little real world experience, as can be seen by how poorly the TRUE does in their testing, as does the Megahalem.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,882
3,230
126
I'll post results with my 975 @ 4.4

I cant show u the 980 cuz theres still NDA on it.

Give me 10 min to do a cpu swap real quick and reload my old bios values.

EDIT:
Meh... couldnt get 4.4ghz values to load up.

Just remembered Beta bios for gulftown wiped the save. :\
 
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Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,278
126
106
Just liking something doesn't make you incapible of providing objective information about it. (I love my old Athlon 3200+ Lappy, but it sucks)

Hey Zeus provided a good set of benchmarks about a i3 @ 4.8ghz and a PII 965 @ 3.8ghz, I think that it's quite telling that the PII walks all over the i3 despite having a Ghz less clockspeed. Granted the PII can probably go a decent bit higher, but remember, we don't know how high the 32nm process can go either. Granted, 1.42v seems high, seeing as how 1.45v seems to be the magic number for an everyday OC of a 45nm chip, but we shall see if that voltage is too high or not.
A fanboy is someone who goes for a product/company and is incapable of admitting its flaws.
I love my Q6600, and my old 3500+, loving the product doesn't making me a fanboy of it (I've loved both my AMD and Intel products and have supported both companies over the years)

They are dangerous because they DON'T provide objective information about products. In fact, they generally will ignore every and any fault and sometimes even try to make it into a feature. If a benchmark shows that their product sucks, they ignore it and never reference it. Being a fanboy, by its definition, implies that you are completely bias to the company/product that you are obsessed with.

You love your 3200+, yet you know it sucks. That doesn't make you a fanboy. For you to be a fan boy you would have to say "I love my 3200+, its better then any intel CPU on the market" or "I love my 3200+, I want to upgrade to the new PII which creams any thing that intel offers".

The best(worst?) example of fanboys are the console fanboys. Go tell a PS3 fanboy that the Xbox360 is better because it has more games, or an Xbox360 fanboy that the PS3 is better because it is more powerful. Both will chew your head off, deny that that is the case, and go off about how terrible a company sony/microsoft is.

Those are not the people I want to take my tech opinions from.
 

sawtx

Member
Dec 9, 2008
93
0
61
If Hey_Zeus were a fanboy, the blue bars would be longer than the red bars...though it would be more interesting to see a comparison between the i3 540 and the Athlon II X2 250.

Why would comparing a $145 i3 540 to a $59 X2 250 be more interesting?
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,882
3,230
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Why would comparing a $145 i3 540 to a $59 X2 250 be more interesting?

lol cuz amd would lose then..

^ mean this as a joke.. i dont want to piss off you AMD lovers...

no but seriously, its so u have 2 dual core performance benches side by side.

However its not fair, because the i3 has HT.
 

sawtx

Member
Dec 9, 2008
93
0
61
lol cuz amd would lose then..

^ mean this as a joke.. i dont want to piss off you AMD lovers...

no but seriously, its so u have 2 dual core performance benches side by side.

However its not fair, because the i3 has HT.

Just the pick of CPU is strange, why not at least compare it to a Phenom II X2 if you want to compare dual core chips. I would rather see the i3 540 vs. Core 2 Quad Q8200 vs. Phenom II X4 940, since those seem to be about the same price and all have 4 threads.
 

deimos3428

Senior member
Mar 6, 2009
697
0
0
Why would comparing a $145 i3 540 to a $59 X2 250 be more interesting?

Because that would be comparing a dual core @ ~3.0Ghz vs. another dual core @ ~3.0Ghz, instead of two seemingly random processors.

As for it being "unfair" -- processors don't cry. What's important is to what extent HT improves the results, not whether it does.
 
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sawtx

Member
Dec 9, 2008
93
0
61
Because that would be comparing a dual core @ ~3.0Ghz vs. another dual core @ ~3.0Ghz, instead of two seemingly random processors.

As for it being "unfair" -- processors don't cry. What's important is to what extent HT improves the results, not whether it does.

But why the Athlon II version and not the Phenom II version? That still would be meaningless, you are comparing 2 chips aimed at different markets with different performance goals.

If you want to check HT performance just look at the HT on/off benches, based off the benches in this thread it is a little under 30% on average which is on the high end of where I've seen HT performance.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Am I supposed to believe that a Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz is almost 70-80% faster than Phenom II @ 3.9ghz...>>? obviously this bench just lost all credibility since it has nothing to do with real world performance. I think we should focus on the overclocking achievement but if you are going to include benchmarks, they have to be games or something that isn't purely synthetic.

Definitely!! Its true in server platforms, which is why the quad-core Nehalem-based Xeon 5570 can beat quad-core Shanghai by similar amount shown on the benchmark above. The 4 core 5570 is still faster than the 6-core Istanbul by 20-30%, with some database applications reaching nearly 50%!

Of course we are not server guys, so those benches are "irrelevant". But certainly not unrealistic.

What Clarkdale is really showing us is that the number of threads supported by the program is more important than the implementation of Hyperthreading in regards to performance(specifically relating to performance losses here).

Intel really did improve Hyperthreading on the Nehalem compared to the P4. Too bad it showed mostly on the server apps. Home user apps are very picky.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
Just the same now, HT is beneficial for encoding, 3D and similar, but is not going to affect gaming.

Core i3 seems to benchmark a whole lot better than Pentium G6950 (slightly lower clocks, 3MB L3 cache, and no hyperthreading) in games.

However, we don't know how much of the boost is coming from HT vs the 1MB extra L3 cahe/133 MHz extra clock speed.
 
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deimos3428

Senior member
Mar 6, 2009
697
0
0
But why the Athlon II version and not the Phenom II version? That still would be meaningless, you are comparing 2 chips aimed at different markets with different performance goals.
Comparing processor performance based on price bracket is actually a little bit absurd, because that tells you absolutely nothing about the processors themselves. Relative pricing varies with respect to time, geography, marketing and availability -- whereas processor specifications and performance measurements are static. It's better to let the engineering teams determine how to rank the processors than the marketting teams.

In this case we have two processors from competing firms which are very much in the same market, namely "modern recently-released dual cores", although they are not in the same price bracket. It'd be interesting to add in a comparably clocked Phenom II X2 as well, sure.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the i3 comes out ahead in many situations. But what matters is "how much", and in which situations.
 

EarthwormJim

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2003
3,239
0
76
The overclock on that Clarkdale is sweet! But I gotta say that This benchmark is a joke. Am I supposed to believe that a Core i7 860 @ 3.9ghz is almost 70-80% faster than Phenom II @ 3.9ghz...>>? obviously this bench just lost all credibility since it has nothing to do with real world performance. I think we should focus on the overclocking achievement but if you are going to include benchmarks, they have to be games or something that isn't purely synthetic.


Maybe it was compiled using Intel's x86 compiler? :biggrin:
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
I think the title here is mislabeled. No one assumed HT is useless for Intel chips. I think on the contrary since i7 920 came out initially HT already shows like 15-20% performance on certain apps for Intel platform. but it is also clear HT isn't always faster in all apps, in some apps no difference some even better without it. but on the whole it is more helpful than hurting the IPC.

but to claim HT is equal to a physical core from the same family of processors isn't true. Even AMD is emulating HT in upcoming BD says a ton about usefulness of this cpu feature. However, I doubt by turning on HT AMD can claim it's like adding another set of physical BD cores, if that is true, well it probably means the physical cores were very badly designed to begin with.
 

Hyperlite

Diamond Member
May 25, 2004
5,664
2
76
Comparing processor performance based on price bracket is actually a little bit absurd, because that tells you absolutely nothing about the processors themselves. Relative pricing varies with respect to time, geography, marketing and availability -- whereas processor specifications and performance measurements are static. It's better to let the engineering teams determine how to rank the processors than the marketting teams.

In this case we have two processors from competing firms which are very much in the same market, namely "modern recently-released dual cores", although they are not in the same price bracket. It'd be interesting to add in a comparably clocked Phenom II X2 as well, sure.

I would not be the least bit surprised if the i3 comes out ahead in many situations. But what matters is "how much", and in which situations.

No. Processors are designed to compete in a price bracket. it's only fair. Your right about the individual specifications, but those specifications have almost zero bearing on how the processor actually performs.
 

Hey Zeus

Banned
Dec 31, 2009
780
0
0
I totally agree the benchmark SUCKS but it's..

1. Free
2. Widely Used
3. Not biased towards anyone

I'm not a Fanboi. Have owned both Amd and Intel. Went with an I3 over a Athlon II X4 630 because i like playing with new tech and wanted to see how high it can go on air.

Posting the benchmark proves that Intel's new 32nm Dual core's can trade blow's with Amd's Flagship Quad Core. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
I totally agree the benchmark SUCKS but it's..

1. Free
2. Widely Used
3. Not biased towards anyone

I'm not a Fanboi. Have owned both Amd and Intel. Went with an I3 over a Athlon II X4 630 because i like playing with new tech and wanted to see how high it can go on air.

Posting the benchmark proves that Intel's new 32nm Dual core's can trade blow's with Amd's Flagship Quad Core. Nothing more. Nothing less.
wait what?

IF that were the case don't you think i would have an ES of a 32nm Quad in my room?

I'm just an Intel Fanboi. Plain and simple
 
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