Classical Music: Why don't you listen?

[Fritzo]

Classical music is too complex for most people to understand. Also, people today associate music with fun and dancing. They want heavy rhythms, not subtle string sections. While classical is full of emotion and imagery, people find it slow, drawn out, and dull. The style of music just went out of style is all. You can't expect a style of music that's been around since the 1700's to last forever.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

Wrong. I had about ten years of classical instrument training, up to what I think anyone would consider pretty advanced levels (thanks to my parents). I just don't like classical. Never have, never will.

LMAO @ BlancoNino that is the most ignorant statement i've ever heard.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

Wrong. I had about ten years of classical instrument training, up to what I think anyone would consider pretty advanced levels (thanks to my parents). I just don't like classical. Never have, never will.

LMAO @ BlancoNino that is the most ignorant statement i've ever heard.

Not really. A lot of people's brains only want to comprehend a simple melody accompanied by a simple beat. That's called easy listening. Understanding how to play something, and understanding how to listen to it and what makes it great are two different things.

 

[DaShen]

NeoClassical and Modern classical is very interesting to listen to. So real classics are great too, but I think because of the ease of hearing this music, people have lost interest in the old Classics (except on special occassions). Then there is an issue of NeoClassical and Modern classical not having the name recognition of Classical and Romantic composers.

Everyone has heard of Mozart, less have heard of Prokofiev.... even less for the more Modern composers. I like listening to all kinds of music, classical is good, but I do not solely listen to it. There is just so much selection in music nowadays, classical takes a backseat a lot of the times.

People who refuse to listen to classical are missing out though.

 

[Dacalo]

I love classical music, perhaps more than other genres. I love the subtle touches and notes in each piece. I don't look down on people who don't like classical, I just find the genre very satisfying to my ears and soothing for my mind and body.

 

[johnjohn320]

Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

A lot of people have brought up modern compositions as well. You'd be amazed how often the musicians themselves would agree with you. Many composers went the route of atonality, 12 tone serialism, etc....and they lost their public. Fortunately, most modern composers (Whitacre, Glass, Corigliano, etc) are returning to tonality, as they've realized the constraints of what they've been doing since the 50s or so.

I also agree with whoever brought up the idea of this "uppity" attitude that many classical musicians or enthusists have. In fact, I'll go ahead and dig up the Corigliano interview (he talks a great deal about this). I hope it's realized, however, that most of us do not view ourselves (or our art) as any way superior to other people, or that the average person is just "too stupid" to get our craft.

EDIT-Exceprts from the interview:

When you have a philosophy that you don't give a damn what the audience thinks, when a Pulitzer Prize-winning composer told me that he considers a concert a private communication through public means, the answer is that at a certain point when you're not talking to people and they know you're not talking to them, they go away. Instead of making it a new adventure where they're permitted to dislike something?the biggest problem is we've taken away their rights?when they dislike something, they're told they're idiots. When they like something, they're told they're idiots and that it was really just pandering. And after a while, since its diametrically opposed to their feelings and since the composer prides himself because of this romantic vision of not reaching people rather than reaching people, on being unintelligible rather than being intelligible, they don't understand it.

I trace this back to the birth of romanticism. Benjamin Britten said the rot began with Beethoven. I feel that the rot began with Wagner. Mainly because all composers up till then wrote to God?it was a Mass, it was a Missa Solemnis, a Requiem, whatever?it was to God. Wagner wrote as a god. He made that very clear. And everyone treated him that way and this vision he had was of a god artist. Religion was dying and art became the new religion. God became the composer. If you go to any church, the one thing you know is that you don't understand God. You can't understand God. If you understood him he wouldn't be God. He'd be mortal. God is incomprehensible. So, all of a sudden, this virtue of incomprehensibility sprung up. I am incomprehensible because my message is so much more complex and morally stronger than the message of those people who were just speaking to you that you can understand. Therefore, you shouldn't understand me. But you should worship me and come to these concerts. Well, OK, but composers are not gods, they're people. And this has been the most destructive thing to art I have ever seen, art ruining art...What it did was it gave us is the egocentric idea of the artist-god and the audience-worshipper?the non-communication that that means?and bathed us in this until finally the audience was alienated by this and left like they leave churches. Now we want to win them back.

Fascinating interview, I think. Here's the link

 

[eits]

chopin ftw

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

Wrong. I had about ten years of classical instrument training, up to what I think anyone would consider pretty advanced levels (thanks to my parents). I just don't like classical. Never have, never will.

LMAO @ BlancoNino that is the most ignorant statement i've ever heard.

Not really. A lot of people's brains only want to comprehend a simple melody accompanied by a simple beat. That's called easy listening. Understanding how to play something, and understanding how to listen to it and what makes it great are two different things.

no it's ignorant for you to assume people don't like stuff for 1 reason. so let me guess, you think the only reason people don't like Shakespeare is because they don't get it either?

i don't want to get it. i don't care for that crap in general. same goes for classical music. i don't like it because when I hear it, it doesn't make me feel good inside and want to hear more of it, which other genres do for me. i don't "understand" house, rap, hip hop, or trance music ... i just like it.

EDIT: and that doesn't mean i don't understand how complex and hard it is to make classical music. it just means i dont care for it.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

Wrong. I had about ten years of classical instrument training, up to what I think anyone would consider pretty advanced levels (thanks to my parents). I just don't like classical. Never have, never will.

1) Having training doesn't mean you are proficient or that you understand. A lot of kids gets training for many years yet come out knowing very little.

2) I completely disagree with the notion that people have to understand classical music to appreciate it. It was only in Mozart's later years (if really at all) and Beethoven's time (classical-romantic transitionalist) that people began to appreciate music for its qualities rather than as mere entertainment; it wasn't something that you had to profoundly understand in order to appreciate.

So, I agree with your conclusion but not with your premise.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
To me modern classical music is like modern art and the most haute cuisine, created to provide novelty and stimulation to those over-educated in the arcana of the craft. I'd rather have some Vivaldi and a steak

I listen to music for emotional stimulation more than intellectual, especially while working as a software developer. The music keeps the emotional centers entertained while the analytical ones figure out how to encode ADPCM audio to embed into a Flash SWF file.

I do own about 50 classical CDs, but I rarely buy new ones since I already have a decent coverage of the concertos and chamber music that appeals to me.

Damn. Nice quote. I agree with you as well, and I too listen to it while developing. :thumbsup:

When he said that, I imagined that British guy with the huge lower jaw on Family Guy

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

 

[6StringSamurai]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: aswedc
No, it demonstrates the incredible elitism of classical music people. Look how many people have already derided those who like modern music as not being able to understand the "complexity" of classical. Give me a break :roll:

It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

I think you are missing a very important part of why people listen to music. Ok, lets first throw out the crowd that listents to certain music to fit in, or to be like their friends, or to feel like they are more important than others (last one fits some of the posters in this thread)

Now, what you have left, basically, is the group that listens to what they want, because they like it. Music, is about emotion, it affects you emotionally above all else. I can fully respect classical music, hell I play piano, guitar, bass, drums, and sax...I understand the complexity fully. I can say the same for all forms of jazz and blues, BUT understanding and respecting it, are not the same as enjoying it. If you say that I do not enjoy classical, because I am too dense to enjoy the nuances or the detail and complexity, then you need to go DIAF, because you are nothing more than an elitest moron with no concept of music.

That being said, I love rock music, for the raw energy and emotion that it conveys, the way it makes me feel. I can play Led Zeppelin, The Who, Godsmack, Dragonforce, Metallica, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Buddy Guy, The Doors, Breaking Benjamin, etc, etc, etc, because I feel a certain way, or I want to feel a certain way. It's about emotion and the way a song makes you feel. If classical speaks to your emotions then enjoy it and embrace it, but do not make the mistake of telling me I am a lesser human for enjoying Vaughn's rendition of "Voodoo Chile" more than Beethoven's "Fifth".

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

no it's ignorant for you to assume people don't like stuff for 1 reason. so let me guess, you think the only reason people don't like Shakespeare is because they don't get it either?

i don't want to get it. i don't care for that crap in general. same goes for classical music. i don't like it because when I hear it, it doesn't make me feel good inside and want to hear more of it, which other genres do for me. i don't "understand" house, rap, hip hop, or trance music ... i just like it.

EDIT: and that doesn't mean i don't understand how complex and hard it is to make classical music. it just means i dont care for it.

You're calling me ignorant, and you're the one saying "I don't want to get it." Interesting.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: aswedc

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
It's a fact. The reason people don't like classical, is because they don't understand it. Look at the music scores for a symphony composed during the romantic era. Compare that with anything from today's top40.

Wrong. I had about ten years of classical instrument training, up to what I think anyone would consider pretty advanced levels (thanks to my parents). I just don't like classical. Never have, never will.

LMAO @ BlancoNino that is the most ignorant statement i've ever heard.

Not really. A lot of people's brains only want to comprehend a simple melody accompanied by a simple beat. That's called easy listening. Understanding how to play something, and understanding how to listen to it and what makes it great are two different things.

Oh please. Don't assume that you have to understand something to appreciate it.

You can consider how absurd your notion is when you consider that many children, myself included, love classical music at an age so young they can barely comprehend the idea of music itself.

That said, I do agree that heightened appreciation comes from true understanding, but understanding first starts with appreciation.

 

[aswedc]

Originally posted by: Descartes
1) Having training doesn't mean you are proficient or that you understand. A lot of kids gets training for many years yet come out knowing very little.

I'm not going to get into an e-penis competition here, so this is the last post about my ability. But, I was more than proficient. Period.

BlancoNino, you're right. I'm just too stupid. Ten years, and my tiny brain is still incapable of comprehending the incredible complexity of classical music.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, aria, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

[edit]Spelling[/edit]

 

[dullard]

I like classical but I rarely listen to it.

When I listen to music I want something new, something fresh, something catchy, something that I can't get out of my head, something that I want to sing along with. Classical doesn't fit any of those needs.

I truely think the #1 reason a song is a success is the ability of a song to have an unforgetable background rhythm. Recently the recording industry has also discovered this. Songs are debuted at strip clubs before they hit the market to know which ones to advertise (if the strippers can find a rhythm to dance to, it is always a commercial success). Classical music generally does not have this type of unforgetable background rhythm.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: purbeast0

no it's ignorant for you to assume people don't like stuff for 1 reason. so let me guess, you think the only reason people don't like Shakespeare is because they don't get it either?

i don't want to get it. i don't care for that crap in general. same goes for classical music. i don't like it because when I hear it, it doesn't make me feel good inside and want to hear more of it, which other genres do for me. i don't "understand" house, rap, hip hop, or trance music ... i just like it.

EDIT: and that doesn't mean i don't understand how complex and hard it is to make classical music. it just means i dont care for it.

You're calling me ignorant, and you're the one saying "I don't want to get it." Interesting.

please show me where i claimed "to get classical music." i have no want or desire to understand it, because classical music at first glance is of absolutely no interest to me.

you are basically flat out saying people don't like X because they don't understand X, whereas if they understood X they would like it, when that's completely false. I can tell you a dozen things that I understand 100% that I do not like. there are about 10 sports I could name off the top of my head that I understand and do not like.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, area, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

Okay, sorry - I stereotyped "classical" as "chamber orchestra".

I hate opera vocals, though. Choral music can be good but it's hard to find something good out of the millions of songs.

I've actually never heard of a cantata, area, or oratorio.

What if I changed "no vocals" to "no engaging vocals"? Would that make a difference?

EDIT: oh, and dullard was right on with his take two posts above.

 

[purbeast0]

oh and BlancoNino is the prime example of how some (note i'm not saying all) people who enjoy classical music think they are these elitists who are better because they "understand" it.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: purbeast0

no it's ignorant for you to assume people don't like stuff for 1 reason. so let me guess, you think the only reason people don't like Shakespeare is because they don't get it either?

i don't want to get it. i don't care for that crap in general. same goes for classical music. i don't like it because when I hear it, it doesn't make me feel good inside and want to hear more of it, which other genres do for me. i don't "understand" house, rap, hip hop, or trance music ... i just like it.

EDIT: and that doesn't mean i don't understand how complex and hard it is to make classical music. it just means i dont care for it.

You're calling me ignorant, and you're the one saying "I don't want to get it." Interesting.

please show me where i claimed "to get classical music." i have no want or desire to understand it, because classical music at first glance is of absolutely no interest to me.

you are basically flat out saying people don't like X because they don't understand X, whereas if they understood X they would like it, when that's completely false. I can tell you a dozen things that I understand 100% that I do not like. there are about 10 sports I could name off the top of my head that I understand and do not like.

I agree. I think the snobbery around classical music requiring that you have to "get it" turns a lot of people off as well.

Personally, when I appreciate something I usually do everything I can to truly understand it. That's just in my nature, but a lot of people have no reason to understand the details. In fact, much of the theory that comes with understanding wasn't understood until well after the time of many of the great composers, so that's also in conflict.

 

[BlancoNino]

Why all the attacks on me? Why is it so hard to comprehend that you have to understand how to appreciate something? Understanding how to play and understanding how to appreciate are two different things. I'm simply saying that understanding to appreciate classical music takes a little more focus on listening, a sharper ear, and overall a well-tuned brain.

This doesn't make people who listen to classical music better. If you're saying you simply just don't "want" to appreciate it, that's your choice, but you are missing out on some great stuff.

Modern music suits most of today's people. They prefer to have the main melody slammed into their face as fast as possible...just like a drug. That makes it easier to listen to. Is there a problem with this? No, just simply not my main choice (although I listen to all music genres).

Purebeast: You claimed you didn't WANT to get it. That's fine with me if you don't even want to try.

 

[DrPizza]

Perhaps one of the reasons that classical music makes up such a small amount of the sales is that people tend to hold onto and listen to the classical music they've purchased for a much greater duration of time. Add to this the easy access to good classical, nearly commercial free music on the radio (especially some of the npr stations). Think about it - I have cassettes of Beethoven and Mozart that I still listen to occasionally in the car (I have an older car without a cd player). Those cassettes are almost 20 years old. How many people do you know who purchased N'sync, Backstreet Boys, etc. CD's like they were going out of style, but haven't listened to them (or admitted to ever owning them) in years?

There's simply so much outstanding classical music that never goes out of style that it's easy to build up a decent collection and be able to listen to it over and over without excessive replays, and without getting bored of it. Not to mention, a lot of the classical music is cheaper than pop music. Bargains are everywhere. Also, the older classical classics provide a great variety of music within the genre of classical music itself. Thus, many of the fans of classical music really don't care a whole lot about modern classical music composers.

This is not to forget that if you mention "Bach, Beethoven, Mozart", most people have a clue of the styles of music you're referring to. A lot of time, people seeking some music from those composers will branch out into other composers from those eras. But, mention the names of nearly any contemporary classical composer (with perhaps the exception of Phillip Glass), and most people will say "who?" In the case of Phillip Glass, I myself would simply say, "I've heard of that guy."

Another consideration - given the price of CD's, even cheaper ones, who really wants to take a risk by purchasing something they've never heard before. And, while l listen to classical on the radio while driving in my car, the songs/symphonies/whatever last soooooo long, that it's rare that I have a chance to even learn who the composer was of a particular song, even when I would be interested in purchasing it. Then, since there's so much variety, I may never hear that song again. Compare that to pop music... switch the radio to a pop station and you'd have to be brain dead not to quickly learn who most of the major artists and new releases are.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: johnjohn320
Interesting thoughts. I love how a little battle's already waging, and I didn't even start it.

To those who say "it's boring": this is a fair answer, but please tell me more. WHY do you find it boring? What's exciting about rock (or whatever you listen to) that classical music lacks?

There isn't nearly as much intensity in classical as there is in rock, and the music isn't as twitch-engaging. Furthermore, classical songs are generally longer, which means the intensity is usually more drawn out. There are also no vocals. In short, classical music is good for a long session, while rock music is better on-the-go.

No vocals? There are absolutely vocals. Where did you get that crazy idea? Ever heard of a cantata, area, choral music, oratorio, etc. etc.? What about an opera?

Okay, sorry - I stereotyped "classical" as "chamber orchestra".

I hate opera vocals, though. Choral music can be good but it's hard to find something good out of the millions of songs.

I've actually never heard of a cantata, area, or oratorio.

What if I changed "no vocals" to "no engaging vocals"? Would that make a difference?

EDIT: oh, and dullard was right on with his take two posts above.

Sorry, I meant to say aria. Not sure what was going through my mind.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

It's hard to get. You have to find the right orchestra playing and what not. It's hard as hell to search on iTunes and Rhapsody. I use Rhapsody, and it's hard because there are 200 albums by 1 classical artist. To then browse through them to find the right album is insanely hard. Sometimes they don't have the right orchestra playing and I have to compromise with another version. Plus, if you forget hte Sonata # or hte movement, you're very screwed. I was trying to find a Beethoven Sonata knowing the key only. That was hard as hell.