clean your videocard for RMA

[lexmark]

Originally posted by: cpacini

Originally posted by: lexmark
If you people would honestly go out and buy another card I understand your viewpoint.But if you couldn't afford another video card, ( or monitor) you would honestly sit at home with a lifeless computer? hard to believe imo.

Yes.

And if I didn't have money for the movies than I wouldn't sneak in, I wouldn't walk out of a restraunt without paying the bill because i cant afford it. If I don't have money for a $200 Video card to play games on, then, well, I wouldn't game until I do. Were not talking about starving people stealing a loaf of bread from the grocery store here.

Am I going to get locked up or fined for RMA'ing an oc card? please.

Thats not the point. You're not going to get arrested for lots of things that are illegal, but that doesnt make them ok.

Jay walking to the store across the street instead of walking a mile down the road to a crosswalk is the not the right thing to do, but it lacks severity of a crime (thats why I and maybe you would do it. Wrong? yes. Illegal? yes. Severe? Matter of perception.

My viewpoint that varies from yours is the severity of it, I don't see it as that big of an issue, and neither does the legal system see it that severe imo if there isnt a severe fine for the action.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Doesn't watercooling void the warranty whether it is OCed or not? You're removing their stock cooler and modifying the card.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye

 

[cpacini]

Originally posted by: lexmark

Originally posted by: cpacini

Originally posted by: lexmark
If you people would honestly go out and buy another card I understand your viewpoint.But if you couldn't afford another video card, ( or monitor) you would honestly sit at home with a lifeless computer? hard to believe imo.

Yes.

And if I didn't have money for the movies than I wouldn't sneak in, I wouldn't walk out of a restraunt without paying the bill because i cant afford it. If I don't have money for a $200 Video card to play games on, then, well, I wouldn't game until I do. Were not talking about starving people stealing a loaf of bread from the grocery store here.

Am I going to get locked up or fined for RMA'ing an oc card? please.

Thats not the point. You're not going to get arrested for lots of things that are illegal, but that doesnt make them ok.

Jay walking to the store across the street instead of walking a mile down the road to a crosswalk is the not the right thing to do, but it lacks severity of a crime (thats why I and maybe you would do it. Wrong? yes. Illegal? yes. Severe? Matter of perception.

My viewpoint that varies from yours is the severity of it, I don't see it as that big of an issue, and neither those the legal system imo if there is no fine for the action.

Jaywalking and fraud are two completly different things. Its really not a matter of the legal system finding them important, but the cost involved with prosecuting cases. It would be very expensive to prosecute every person tht participates in fileshaing, and it would be very difficult to prove in a court of law that you were purposly trying to defraud the manufactuer by sending in a bogus RMA. That still doesnt change the fact that by doing that you take money out of my pocket.

 

[SketchMaster]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
Doesn't watercooling void the warranty whether it is OCed or not? You're removing their stock cooler and modifying the card.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye

Umm... He didn't do jack to the card.

Originally posted by: shinzwei
ahah! i just got it from a recent trade. he watercooled the card and there are like black residue on the card....but i took it all of and now the card is sticky....like in back of a sticker if ur smeer the sticky part.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: lexmark

Originally posted by: akugami
His card, yes, his conscience, yes. However, when you RMA something, it drives up the cost of doing business (yes I know they set aside a certain percentage of cards for RMA). However, every time a manufactorer deals with RMA'ed products it drives up the cost of doing business and that means that I have to pay more in the long run for new hardware (video cards in this case).

Most video card warranties are void if you take off the default heatsink or overclock. The fact that someone took the time to install a water cooling system usually means they will overclock. Granted not always but usually.

Not being belligerent, but could you show proof showing that there is a direct corelation of price increases of video cards being a direct result from the amount of RMA's completed? I've never seen it.

You obviously have never been in a business course, or had anything but a "McJob", and apparently had no good role models.

I will spell it out for you:

Returns are projected based on anticipated failure rates, determined by testing. The anticipated failure rate and cost of warranty work/replacement is factored into the price of the product. This cost is part of the firms "overhead" or "cost of doing business", like wages, real estate, machinery, etc..

Companies have a sale price that is X percent over their cost of doing business, from which they hope to derive a PROFIT. The profit is used for R&D, raises, bonuses, better equipment etc..

Let's say for the sake of argument BFGs profits run 10% of sales.

When people like you shorten a products life by overvolting it or modding it, then return it fraudulently, you skew BFGs numbers. Now the profit they were supposed to make on one card is cut in less than half, because they have to give you another.

So next year BFG sees they only made 5% instead of their forecasted 10%. Do you think they say "Oh nuts. I hope we don't have as many returns this year so we can make our 10%"?

Nope, they raise their prices to accomodate their increased cost of doing business, so they make us all pay for people like YOU.

There's no "magic money tree": BFG, ATI, etc. are no different from your lemonade stand when you were a kid. If it cost you $.05 a glass to make the lemonade, you charged $.10. If a bunch of little doofuses set their cups on the ground till ants got in it, and then made you give them a new glass, wouldn't you charge more per glass the next time around, or not sell lemonade at all?

That's what you are- the guy putting his glass on the ground then asking for a new one. If your conscience is clear, you have none, and would be ashamed if you did.


BTW- If any MBAs are out there, I know this is over simplified, but I doubt anyone would disagree increased overhead due to fraud results in nothing good for anyone in the long run?

I love threads like this that bring out all the "morality police"

Don't you think that the manufacture can tell if the card has been oc'd or not? The reason people can rma an oc'd card is because they can. The reason they can seems very simple to me, the manufacture does not care. If they did they could deny the rma, plain and simple. Its the manufactures decision to accept an rma, no one elses. If they know the cards been run out of spec and replace it anyway, who cares? I seriously doubt that a sucessful company like BFG "forgot" to caculate fraudulant rma's into thier profit forcast. It looks to me like they are trying to win over customers brand loyalty by being lenient on thier rma policy, which doesn't mean the customer is "stealing" or committing some horrible crime on humanity.

I manage a sucessful business. I give stuff away all the time thats not in accordance with our "written" policy. That doesn't mean my customers are stealing from me, that means I appreciate their business and show it in a way that wins me more business in the long run. If I have someone take advantage of my generosity, that is my problem to take care of how I see fit, and can assure you my other customers don't suffer from it.

If you want to yell at someone for being immoral, go find a politician. Its the manufactures job to monitor thier rma's, not yours.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: thorny169
I love threads like this that bring out all the "morality police"

Don't you think that the manufacture can tell if the card has been oc'd or not? The reason people can rma an oc'd card is because they can. The reason they can seems very simple to me, the manufacture does not care. If they did they could deny the rma, plain and simple. Its the manufactures decision to accept an rma, no one elses. If they know the cards been run out of spec and replace it anyway, who cares? I seriously doubt that a sucessful company like BFG "forgot" to caculate fraudulant rma's into thier profit forcast. It looks to me like they are trying to win over customers brand loyalty by being lenient on thier rma policy, which doesn't mean the customer is "stealing" or committing some horrible crime on humanity.

I manage a sucessful business. I give stuff away all the time thats not in accordance with our "written" policy. That doesn't mean my customers are stealing from me, that means I appreciate their business and show it in a way that wins me more business in the long run. If I have someone take advantage of my generosity, that is my problem to take care of how I see fit, and can assure you my other customers don't suffer from it.

If you want to yell at someone for being immoral, go find a politician. Its the manufactures job to monitor thier rma's, not yours.

Doesn't matter if they can or can't. Most of the cards sold do not allow you to overclock them at risk of voiding the warranty. Even more cards do not allow you to physically modify the cards in any way (such as changing heatsinks and fans). If you knew the RMA was voided due to your actions (or in this case the actions of the previous owner) and you try to RMA it anyways, you are committing fraud. There is no moral police, it is fraud plain and simple.

Normally I wouldn't care if you were committing a crime so long as it does not hurt anyone. Especially me. Someone tried to compare committing fraud to jaywalking. Jaywalking is illegal because government saw that walking across the street haphazardly can be dangerous to one's health with 3000lb+ cards zooming by. Fraudulant RMA's is stealing from a company. If you sent in a product for RMA when you knowningly voided the warranty and thereby rendered the product defective then you are cheating the company for services that you are not entitled to. If said company has to pay higher costs to support fraudulant RMA's the company makes less money. If said company makes less money, it will raise prices. If it raises prices, consumers such as myself get shafted and have to pay for you being a prick and a cheat. So I say there is no moral police trying to get you to do the right thing. I just don't want to pay higher prices for stuff I buy.

You say you manage a company and you give stuff out all the time. Great. But let's not kid ourselves. At the end of year, the boss (if you're not the boss), checks the gross sales and profits and if you're not making enough money or, hopefully not, losing money then prices are going to be raised. I very much doubt you'll be giving away a lot of stuff away next year if that happens.

And before you say I have no business experience, I would tell you that my father owns and runs a small convenience store. We used to own a 20% share in a small supermarket. We own various real estate that nets a pretty penny. Basically, I'm saying I know how to run a business.

Let's take where I live. This really occured and is not made up. There is a supermarket (we'll call it supermarket A) that caters to an ethnic group. Another supermarket (supermarket B) opened up catering to the same ethnic group. Supermarket B's prices were roughly on par with Supermarket A. However, most people were used to going to Supermarket A. Supermarket B decided to drum up business by giving away free grocery items with X dollars in sales. The more you spend, the better the gift. Cookies, eggs, oil, etc. Mostly food staples. Supermarket A saw a decline in sales and did the same thing. Shortly thereafter, both Supermarket A and Supermarket B raised the prices on many items to cover the decreased profits.

Any smart person who looked at the bigger picture can see that the so called free gifts are not really free. You're still paying for them, you just don't realize it. Higher expenses leads to lower profits so the owners of both supermarkets raised sticker prices to compensate for the reduced profits. Is that really any different from someone fraudulantly RMA'ing a product, thereby raising operating costs for a company, thereby causing product prices to raise? I don't know about you but I prefer to buy products at low prices.

That's why I didn't RMA my Dell 2005FPW within the first 30 days because it had a single stuck grey pixel. Let's face it, Dell has a really loose return policy on a lot of stuff if you return it within 30 days. I know Dell makes a crapload of money but they also have some pretty decent sales on some items. When on sale, Dell has some of the best monitor prices and their monitors are almost always top notch. If I buy a monitor again from them, or if someone else does, I'll be glad to know that I haven't contributed to higher operating costs and possibly causing prices to raise due to my actions. Or, even worse, Dell decides to cut corners on their next batch of monitors.

 

[Thorny]

Originally posted by: akugami

Originally posted by: thorny169
I love threads like this that bring out all the "morality police"

Don't you think that the manufacture can tell if the card has been oc'd or not? The reason people can rma an oc'd card is because they can. The reason they can seems very simple to me, the manufacture does not care. If they did they could deny the rma, plain and simple. Its the manufactures decision to accept an rma, no one elses. If they know the cards been run out of spec and replace it anyway, who cares? I seriously doubt that a sucessful company like BFG "forgot" to caculate fraudulant rma's into thier profit forcast. It looks to me like they are trying to win over customers brand loyalty by being lenient on thier rma policy, which doesn't mean the customer is "stealing" or committing some horrible crime on humanity.

I manage a sucessful business. I give stuff away all the time thats not in accordance with our "written" policy. That doesn't mean my customers are stealing from me, that means I appreciate their business and show it in a way that wins me more business in the long run. If I have someone take advantage of my generosity, that is my problem to take care of how I see fit, and can assure you my other customers don't suffer from it.

If you want to yell at someone for being immoral, go find a politician. Its the manufactures job to monitor thier rma's, not yours.

Any smart person who looked at the bigger picture can see that the so called free gifts are not really free. You're still paying for them, you just don't realize it. Higher expenses leads to lower profits so the owners of both supermarkets raised sticker prices to compensate for the reduced profits. Is that really any different from someone fraudulantly RMA'ing a product, thereby raising operating costs for a company, thereby causing product prices to raise? I don't know about you but I prefer to buy products at low prices.

First of all, your right here. Free gifts are not really free, true. Your already paying for them one way or another. Thats factored into the operating cost of a business and your going to pay for it if your recieve something free or not, ie RMA's. A fraudulant RMA doesn't exist unless the manufacture challenges the RMA and you lie to recieve it. Trying your luck with the company while being honest is not unethical and certainly is not a crime. If fraudulant RMA's were cutting into their bottom line, protective measures would be taken. Your cost is not raised by people sending in oc'd cards for RMA.

That's why I didn't RMA my Dell 2005FPW within the first 30 days because it had a single stuck grey pixel. Let's face it, Dell has a really loose return policy on a lot of stuff if you return it within 30 days. I know Dell makes a crapload of money but they also have some pretty decent sales on some items. When on sale, Dell has some of the best monitor prices and their monitors are almost always top notch. If I buy a monitor again from them, or if someone else does, I'll be glad to know that I haven't contributed to higher operating costs and possibly causing prices to raise due to my actions. Or, even worse, Dell decides to cut corners on their next batch of monitors.

Try looking at this from another POV. Since you did not complain about a defect in your monitor, Dell is either going to assume that A) your monitor is in perfect working condition and no further product refinement is necessary, or B) you don't care that your product is defective, no further product refinement is necessary. This poses a problem to all the rest of us that want the quality product we paid for. If you were not 100% satified with your monitor you should most certainly call and complain and recieve a fully functional product. If consumers don't compain when they're not satisfied, service and quality will both suffer. Dell not caring about quality is why you got a stuck pixel in the first place, and is the reason I had to send mine back 3 frickin times...

 

[Dravic]

A fraudulant RMA doesn't exist unless the manufacture challenges the RMA and you lie to recieve it. Trying your luck with the company while being honest is not unethical and certainly is not a crime. If fraudulant RMA's were cutting into their bottom line, protective measures would be taken. Your cost is not raised by people sending in oc'd cards for RMA.

ahhhh.... what?

you lied (attempted to commit fraud) when you submitted the RMA. its clearly spelled ot in the card utlities warnings, and warranty documentaion what is, and is not covered.

if you were honest with YOURSELF you would'nt even submitt an RMA for a card that had 1. a previous owner, 2. original HSF removed, 3. covered in a foriegn residue. and possibly 4. overclocked.

why not be open and honest when requesting the RMA, and see if they give you an RMA number at all, rather then hoping they dont come back to you after they are already half way through the RMA process and are more likely to just finish the RMA.



IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO REPLACE A CARD YOU DAMAGED, THEN YOU SHOULDNT BE MODIFING THE CARD IN ANY WAY.

The OP is just a fool (kindest word i could use) for taking this card in any kind of trade. its not the companies responsibility to cover you own mstakes.

I'm not all that religous but i live by one rule.

Do on to others, as you would have others do onto you.

may someone commit fraud when its your capital at stake.

 

[Rankor]

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO REPLACE A CARD YOU DAMAGED, THEN YOU SHOULDNT BE MODIFYING THE CARD IN ANY WAY.

+1

QFT

This isn't intended for the OP but one has to be very leery about getting 2nd-hand goods ESPECIALLY if they've been OC'd past spec. If you don't know if it has and the seller flat out lies to you, all the more reason to get a brand new video card.

If one can't afford a video card in the first place, then one obviously can't afford to take chances to overclock them. If you do take the risk, then shoulder the responsibility.

If there's anyone that the video card should be returned-to, it should be the person who initially overclocked and subsequently sold the video card to the OP.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: thorny169
A fraudulant RMA doesn't exist unless the manufacture challenges the RMA and you lie to recieve it.

Trying your luck with the company while being honest is not unethical and certainly is not a crime.

If you call up the company and say: "Look. I overclocked this video card, and now it's not working right, but I'm pretty sure I didn't break it. Can I have an RMA?", and they give you an RMA anyway out of the goodness of their heart, then great. No problem there. But to request an RMA when you know the warranty has been voided -- without telling them that -- is lying by omission. In a court of law, this would almost certainly be considered fraud. It's certainly VERY questionable in terms of ethics.

If fraudulant RMA's were cutting into their bottom line, protective measures would be taken. Your cost is not raised by people sending in oc'd cards for RMA.

Said 'protective measures' are higher prices, and/or crappier bundles/warranties on current and future products. If you don't think they're *already* taking this into account, you're just fooling yourself. Fraudulent RMAs cost companies money; either they have to make less profit, or raise prices/reduce add-ons (like warranties and software bundles) to compensate. Which do you think they're going to do?

This is not rocket science here -- this is basic economics.

Try looking at this from another POV. Since you did not complain about a defect in your monitor, Dell is either going to assume that A) your monitor is in perfect working condition and no further product refinement is necessary, or B) you don't care that your product is defective, no further product refinement is necessary. This poses a problem to all the rest of us that want the quality product we paid for. If you were not 100% satified with your monitor you should most certainly call and complain and recieve a fully functional product. If consumers don't compain when they're not satisfied, service and quality will both suffer. Dell not caring about quality is why you got a stuck pixel in the first place, and is the reason I had to send mine back 3 frickin times...

Dell is somewhat of a special case, since they have a 21-day no-questions-asked money back guarantee on most of their products (although they maintain the right to charge a 10% restocking fee, but usually this is waived).

There are few (if any, at this point) LCD monitor manufacturers that guarantee no dead pixels, or will replace a display if fewer than <insert number here> pixels are dead/stuck. If you're not happy with that guarantee, you should not buy their product (instead of buying it, then whining and RMAing monitors anyway until they give you one that is flawless).

 

[shinzwei]

I just wanna know how i can get sticky stuff off my X1800XL....and all this happens...WOW i kinda caused a scene huh? and yet no help.