Cletus Can Carry Concealed!

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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Pity all the people who die in accidental shootings not me. That was what the gun industry lobbied about back in the 70's. There was a study that came out saying people were safer without a gun because of the accidental shooting and the industry freaked out and lobbied congress to kill all research into such things.

Anyways, hail satan.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
Pity all the people who die in accidental shootings not me. That was what the gun industry lobbied about back in the 70's. There was a study that came out saying people were safer without a gun because of the accidental shooting and the industry freaked out and lobbied congress to kill all research into such things.

You and your crazy evidence based irrational fear of guns!
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Thank God the citizens of West Virginia can now rest just a bit more comfortable in the knowledge that their untrained neighbors will be packing heat without jumping through any of those frustrating bureaucratic hoops. After all, more guns = more safety; and that's a fact.

Almost every other state does not take CC seriously. In Virginia all you have to do is pass an incredibly basic quiz and you're cleared.


 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,079
136
Pity all the people who die in accidental shootings not me. That was what the gun industry lobbied about back in the 70's. There was a study that came out saying people were safer without a gun because of the accidental shooting and the industry freaked out and lobbied congress to kill all research into such things.

Anyways, hail satan.

And do you know what the recent Harvard study declared on this subject?
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,617
4,708
136
I live in a legal open carry and concealed carry state. People dont walk around pulling guns out and/or shooting people. Amazing I know.




Then you must live in a cave in the Superstition Mountains, because it happens almost daily here in AZ.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
So a militia is "the whole people"? Then why didn't the framers just say well regulated people? Did they mean back then to exclude black people from that amendment? After all were not black people counted as property?

That would be why there is a comma and then the words "The right of the people..... shall not be infringed". It doesn't say the right of the militia it specifically says the right of the people. Any other part of the Bill of Rights that you think that the phrase "the right of the people" really means the rights of the government?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Absolutely! As long as they're 21 or older, have no felonies for violent behavior, and aren't associated with a gang, just like everyone else.

Define "associated with a gang" please. In a lot of poor black neighborhoods it's virtually impossible not to know or be related to someone in a gang, does that make them associated or are you talking full on gang tats and throwing gang signs?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
That would be why there is a comma and then the words "The right of the people..... shall not be infringed". It doesn't say the right of the militia it specifically says the right of the people. Any other part of the Bill of Rights that you think that the phrase "the right of the people" really means the rights of the government?

It was to defend the Nation, because there was no Military. It wasn't because it was Cool to own a gun.
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
Except.WV.is.not.in.the.South. lmao

It really depends on the viewpoint. If you go by the Mason Dixie line, it is, so I would say that it is. It being a former portion of Virginia also doesn't mean that it moved, which it didn't, which is considered southern as well. Everything points to being southern when you start combing over whether it is or not.

People don't often think of it to begin with but WV is wildly diverse. In the eastern panhandle, it's DC-land. Along the Ohio river, you may as well be in the mid-west. Along the mid-eastern and southern border, you may as well be firmly in the south no questions asked. All those people in the middle somewhere they're making moonshine and just want to be left alone.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
*After further review, taking down what appears to be a bogus map*
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I really don't get the anti-gunners fascination with firearms. When compared to other things that kill us that we're all perfectly happy with being legal and very lightly restricted, things no one is looking to ban or further restrict, guns kill comparatively fewer people and are more restricted, yet people are always looking for more restriction. As an example, alcohol kills tens of thousand more people in this country each year, many of them innocent victims. Why the laser focus on firearms by some?
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
As a WV resident I'm pretty damn happy about constitutional carry passing.

You could already open carry, it's not a big deal. People who don't know how to handle firearms aren't going to come out of the woodwork just because constitutional carry passed.

I've definitely seen some people complain and raise alarm, but at the end of the day something previously afforded to criminals is now legal for the common person as well.

Our governor is part of the 'good old boy network,' the only reason why he's there after Manchin stepped down. He's not good for anything and I don't know of a single fellow WV resident who has a single positive thing to say about him. He'll be getting voted out.

The biggest intra-WV uproar I've observed is, "it's a tax loss." A lot of people in WV were trained in firearms as children. I know I got started when I was 3, and when I wasn't playing NES I'd go outside and knock out a few rounds. Girls, to be inclusive and all, are normally trained at home as well. Some of the biggest hunters I know are girls.

Accidents do happen. But, we'll be fine.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
It was to defend the Nation, because there was no Military. It wasn't because it was Cool to own a gun.

I doubt it was just as "uncool" to hide stuff from the government either but in that amendment its universally accepted that the "right of the people" actually means the people and not the government.

I wander why those hacks didn't write "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms" instead of completely fucking it up like they did?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,807
126
I doubt it was just as "uncool" to hide stuff from the government either but in that amendment its universally accepted that the "right of the people" actually means the people and not the government.

I wander why those hacks didn't write "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms" instead of completely fucking it up like they did?

Militia's are made up of People. In order for the Militia to have any Fire Power, the people needed to buy Arms. When the Militia assembles, the People bring their Arms with them. They then go off and Defend the Nation or State.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
He's right and you are wrong.

They would have used the word Militia, if they meant that people should bring their guns to the militia.

They used the word people, so that PEOPLE would be free to own guns, and PEOPLE would be free to bring them to a militia (or not.)

-John
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

The 2nd Amendment is not changing. GTFO of the USA if you're scared of average Americans carrying guns.

The meaning of the 2nd Amendment is what changed, under the now-deceased activist judge, Antonin Scalia. The dissenting opinions made quite clear why Scalia et al were wrong (from the Wiki article on the 2nd Amendment):

When each word in the text is given full effect, the Amendment is most naturally read to secure to the people a right to use and possess arms in conjunction with service in a well-regulated militia. So far as appears, no more than that was contemplated by its drafters or is encompassed within its terms. Even if the meaning of the text were genuinely susceptible to more than one interpretation, the burden would remain on those advocating a departure from the purpose identified in the preamble and from settled law to come forward with persuasive new arguments or evidence. The textual analysis offered by respondent and embraced by the Court falls far short of sustaining that heavy burden. And the Court’s emphatic reliance on the claim "that the Second Amendment ... codified a pre-existing right," ante, at 19 [refers to page 19 of the opinion], is of course beside the point because the right to keep and bear arms for service in a state militia was also a pre-existing right.

And

The Amendment's text does justify a different limitation: the "right to keep and bear arms" protects only a right to possess and use firearms in connection with service in a state-organized militia. Had the Framers wished to expand the meaning of the phrase "bear arms" to encompass civilian possession and use, they could have done so by the addition of phrases such as "for the defense of themselves"

and

The question presented by this case is not whether the Second Amendment protects a "collective right" or an "individual right." Surely it protects a right that can be enforced by individuals. But a conclusion that the Second Amendment protects an individual right does not tell us anything about the scope of that right.

But of course, you want to believe that the "interpretation" of the majority in Heller was a consequence of some disciplined examination of the historical record, leading the the inevitable conclusion that the 2nd Amendment was intended to say that citizens have an unlimited right to own and bear arms for self-defense. Judge Richard Posner had this to say about the effect of "priors" on the decision-making of judges:

When judges are not interpreting, they’re creating, and to understand judicial creation one must understand first of all the concept of “priors.” Priors are what we bring to a new question before we’ve had a chance to do research on it. They are attitudes, presuppositions derived from upbringing, from training, from personal and career experience, from religion and national origin and character and ideology and politics. They are unavoidable tools of decision-making in nontechnical fields, such as law, which is both nontechnical and analytically weak, in the sense that there are no settled principles for resolving the most difficult and consequential legal controversies. The tools I am calling priors can in principle and sometimes in practice be overridden by evidence. But often they are impervious to evidence, being deeply embedded in what we are, and that is plainly true of judging — not in every case but in cases that can’t be resolved by interpretation or some other decision-making tool that everyone understands and uses in an identical way.

The priors that seem to exert the strongest influence on present-day Supreme Court justices are political ideology and attitudes toward religion.

Oh, but "originalist" judges couldn't possibly be affected by their priors. Right.
 
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