Clinton: Most Truthful Candidate with Enthusiastic Supporters

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
What a load of bullshit... ROFL And you fools line up to buy it!

It's perfectly clear you've never paid attention to what she says, just to what's said about her.

Repeating rightwing agitprop about Hillary doesn't help Bernie but it hurts Dems in general. When Repubs throw up a smokescreen & claim there's a fire you repeat every word of it.
 

swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
What about those who aren't Democrats? Given the Island of Misfit Candidates assembled by the GOP, I think We Americans must unite behind whoever wins the Democratic nomination. I'd prefer that be Sanders, but Clinton works too.

Greetings,

Of course we would love to have you, whether you're independent or a disillusioned republican. Let's face it, the repubs have got no credible candidate in this race, period.

best regards,
swampy
 

mysticjbyrd

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2015
1,363
3
0
It's perfectly clear you've never paid attention to what she says, just to what's said about her.

Repeating rightwing agitprop about Hillary doesn't help Bernie but it hurts Dems in general. When Repubs throw up a smokescreen & claim there's a fire you repeat every word of it.

Actually, I do listen. She either says nothing, like that quote, or she makes right wing talking points.

On actual issues, not social issues, she is a right wing republican through and through!
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?" - Epicurus

My Dad used to tell me this quote, and I guess it was the first time I questioned God.

-John
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Actually, I do listen. She either says nothing, like that quote, or she makes right wing talking points.

On actual issues, not social issues, she is a right wing republican through and through!

Nice to see you admit she's liberal on social issues. So, uhh, what "actual issues" are you talking about where you claim she's a right wing republican?

Immigration? Taxes? Financial regulation? The role & size of govt? Diplomacy over force? What?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Nice to see you admit she's liberal on social issues. So, uhh, what "actual issues" are you talking about where you claim she's a right wing republican?

Immigration? Taxes? Financial regulation? The role & size of govt? Diplomacy over force? What?

LoL. Playing ignorance?

Fock rights, just kill kill kill.... and spy spy spy spy
Throughout her tenure, she believed that America’s governing elite was justified in running a secret program of mass surveillance and waging secret drone warfare.

Filthy fucking bitch intervenes for the monied class and gets a kickback from the bank. NOICE!
“A few weeks after Hillary Clinton was sworn in as secretary of state in early 2009, she was summoned to Geneva by her Swiss counterpart to discuss an urgent matter. The Internal Revenue Service was suing UBS AG to get the identities of Americans with secret accounts,” The Wall Street Journal reported. “If the case proceeded, Switzerland’s largest bank would face an impossible choice: Violate Swiss secrecy laws by handing over the names, or refuse and face criminal charges in U.S. federal court. Within months, Mrs. Clinton announced a tentative legal settlement—an unusual intervention by the top U.S. diplomat. UBS ultimately turned over information on 4,450 accounts, a fraction of the 52,000 sought by the IRS.”


Later UBS paid her husband seven figures in speaking fees.

In addition, she was paid lavishly to give speeches to some of the most powerful corporations on the planet. She earned more on three Goldman Sachs speeches than many Americans earn in their lives. Forbes estimated her individual worth at $30 million.

LoL. She actually opposed GAY marriage?! WTF?
She later became New York’s junior senator; after the September 11 terrorist attacks she voted with the establishment for the Authorization for the Use of Military Force, the Patriot Act, and the Iraq War. She joined the Senate Prayer Breakfast. When the Democratic establishment opposed gay marriage, she did, too.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-clinton-is-part-of-the-establishment/460125/


I will be voting tonight for the first time in 16 years. Bernie is the only man for me.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Actually, I do listen. She either says nothing, like that quote, or she makes right wing talking points.

On actual issues, not social issues, she is a right wing republican through and through!

You are so right. A vote for her is a vote for Bush. Two sides of the same coin.
 

swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
Greetings bshole,

Many pardons, but I think you can get your point across better by posting the information without the fiery rhetoric. I support Bernie too and hope (not a strong enough word) he wins. Please take this in the spirit it was intended, one of solidarity without the hardline attacks.

Warmest regards,
swampy
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
LoL. Playing ignorance?

Fock rights, just kill kill kill.... and spy spy spy spy

You merely link an accusation.


Filthy fucking bitch intervenes for the monied class and gets a kickback from the bank. NOICE!

The settlement was made by the DoJ & the IRS, not the State Dept-

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/business/global/18ubs.html


LoL. She actually opposed GAY marriage?! WTF?

But supported domestic partnerships & equal rights. Things change over 20 years other than for Republicans.

She's not my ideal candidate by any means but neither is Bernie. The most important thing about the primary & the convention is that Dems show each other the respect we all deserve so that we can come together behind the eventual nominee. Otherwise, we court the alternative in the general election. As Bernie points out, both he & Clinton are 100X better than any Republican, something to keep in mind. He avoids strident divisiveness for a reason, one we'd all do well to heed.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Actually, I do listen. She either says nothing, like that quote, or she makes right wing talking points.

On actual issues, not social issues, she is a right wing republican through and through!
That's actually not true. I'm certainly no fan of the Hildabeast, but as a Senator the only times she significantly deviated from Sanders' voting record was where there was a political price to be paid for voting with Sanders or where it was a question of increasing the power of government. She is definitely a hard-core progressive, she's just an authoritarian, Hillary-first hard-core progressive. That is hardly unusual in the progressive movement. There are a few places where they commonly overlap with right wing Republicans, such as empowering government with domestic spying, undercutting the little guy with unrestrained illegal immigration, and interventionist foreign policy, but not all that many places. In the progressive movement, it is Sanders who is the outlier, not Mrs. Clinton.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Bernie takes Wisconsin! I voted for the first time since 2000. Exciting stuff!
 

Guurn

Senior member
Dec 29, 2012
319
30
91
With Bernie winning 8 of the last 8 states it is time for Hillary to drop out. In fairness she did bring zero issues to the table and we appreciate it, but she is just prolonging the inevitable and preventing Bernie from focusing on the Republicans,
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
With Bernie winning 8 of the last 8 states it is time for Hillary to drop out. In fairness she did bring zero issues to the table and we appreciate it, but she is just prolonging the inevitable and preventing Bernie from focusing on the Republicans,

Can you explain why the person who has gotten the most votes and has a nearly insurmountable delegate lead should drop out? In fact, despite Sanders' win he actually fell further behind his delegate targets that he needs in order to catch up in pledged delegates.

Bernie has somewhere around a 10-15% chance to win the majority of pledged delegates I would imagine. Slightly less than that to win the nomination.
 

Guurn

Senior member
Dec 29, 2012
319
30
91
I was saying that tongue in cheek but if you want a serious reply here it is-

Hillary's delegate count represents 55% of the total so far.
Bernie's delegate count represents 45% of the total so far.
However, Hillary's Superdelegate count represent 93.8% of the total so far,
and Bernie's Superdelegate count represent only 6.2%.
If Superdelegates were proportional to the delegate count today the result would be:
Hillary: 1,549
Bernie: 1,250
With 1,966 still up for grabs.
The current Superdelegate plus Delegate count shows a 25% difference between the two candidates, but if the counts were absolutely proportional the difference would actually only be 11%.

Regarding Wisconsin- RealClearPolitcs records seven polls for Wisconsin within the last week and a half or so. It looks like all seven polls underestimated his vote beyond the margin of error. One was twenty points off, and the average was beaten by about ten points. The probability of this happening by chance is remote (way less than 1 in a million), so the polls were flawed and so is any model based on assuming their accuracy.

Sanders is now outperforming his "impossible path to the nomination" by 10%. New York will likely not be great for him since they shut down new registrations in October of last year.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
I was saying that tongue in cheek but if you want a serious reply here it is-

Hillary's delegate count represents 55% of the total so far.
Bernie's delegate count represents 45% of the total so far.
However, Hillary's Superdelegate count represent 93.8% of the total so far,
and Bernie's Superdelegate count represent only 6.2%.
If Superdelegates were proportional to the delegate count today the result would be:
Hillary: 1,549
Bernie: 1,250
With 1,966 still up for grabs.
The current Superdelegate plus Delegate count shows a 25% difference between the two candidates, but if the counts were absolutely proportional the difference would actually only be 11%.

Regarding Wisconsin- RealClearPolitcs records seven polls for Wisconsin within the last week and a half or so. It looks like all seven polls underestimated his vote beyond the margin of error. One was twenty points off, and the average was beaten by about ten points. The probability of this happening by chance is remote (way less than 1 in a million), so the polls were flawed and so is any model based on assuming their accuracy.

Sanders is now outperforming his "impossible path to the nomination" by 10%. New York will likely not be great for him since they shut down new registrations in October of last year.

Forget the superdelegates, even with pledged delegates his path to the nomination is extremely, extremely hard. He basically needs to win almost every state from here on out by double digits. A substantial loss in NY or PA basically makes it impossible for him to win just from a math perspective.

So again it's not impossible, it's just very unlikely. Clinton is further ahead of Sanders at this point than Obama was ahead of Clinton. The math is brutal.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136

She's got a bunch of northeastern states, haha. Basically Bernie does well where there aren't a lot of black or Hispanic people. Unfortunately for him, there are larger than average numbers of them in most of the upcoming large states. That means he's in deep trouble.
 

swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
With Bernie winning 8 of the last 8 states it is time for Hillary to drop out. In fairness she did bring zero issues to the table and we appreciate it, but she is just prolonging the inevitable and preventing Bernie from focusing on the Republicans,

Hi Guurn,

Good switcheroo, even if it is for fun. However, I don't much care for the picture you displayed. Anyway, it is extremely rewarding to see yet another Bernie fan on these pages.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Forget the superdelegates, even with pledged delegates his path to the nomination is extremely, extremely hard. He basically needs to win almost every state from here on out by double digits. A substantial loss in NY or PA basically makes it impossible for him to win just from a math perspective.

So again it's not impossible, it's just very unlikely. Clinton is further ahead of Sanders at this point than Obama was ahead of Clinton. The math is brutal.

He doesn't even have to lose in PA or NY to come up short. He just has to not win big enough.

As you say, the math is brutal. Not impossible. Still brutal.
 

Guurn

Senior member
Dec 29, 2012
319
30
91
Hi Guurn,

Good switcheroo, even if it is for fun. However, I don't much care for the picture you displayed. Anyway, it is extremely rewarding to see yet another Bernie fan on these pages.

I still have plenty of issues with Bernie but I feel like we know more of his stances on the issues than we do on any other candidate for either party. Before someone links Hillary s homepage I've got serious trust issues with her. Does anyone actually think she will do what she says? Does anyone actually think Trump will either? Cruz frightens me because I think he will do what he says he will do.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
I still have plenty of issues with Bernie but I feel like we know more of his stances on the issues than we do on any other candidate for either party. Before someone links Hillary s homepage I've got serious trust issues with her. Does anyone actually think she will do what she says? Does anyone actually think Trump will either? Cruz frightens me because I think he will do what he says he will do.

I've never gotten the 'untrustworthy' thing about Hillary. Sure she's changed her positions on some things over the years, but not more than any other person who has been in government for that long. As Paul Krugman has noted this basically seems to be a repetition of a right wing smear that conservatives have been using for years:

Are there specific things about her that you think make her 'untrustworthy'?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body

If you had to ask me who I thought was more likely to enact their campaign platform I would say Clinton by a country mile. Maybe Sanders is more committed to implementing his ideas than Clinton is, but he has virtually no ability to do so. He's said himself that he requires a political revolution to do this and unfortunately he's made next to no effort to actually help the down ballot races that he would need in droves to implement his plan. The most likely result of a Sanders presidency seems to be either four years of total ineffectiveness or him abandoning most of his campaign platform.

I prefer Sanders by light years over any Republican candidate, but he just doesn't seem to have a realistic plan for governance.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
I prefer Sanders by light years over any Republican candidate, but he just doesn't seem to have a realistic plan for governance.

Seeing that the US is somewhat like 40+ years *behind* European states in terms of social equality & social democracy, real democracy, I have no doubt that what he wants to do will be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Don't demand one old man having ALL the solutions worked out how to actually fix a system that is broken in many regards for ages already.

Seeing how established big money corruption, greed, political inbreeding etc. is in the US it's actually a miracle he came that far as where he is now.
 
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