Clinton: Most Truthful Candidate with Enthusiastic Supporters

[werepossum]

Sure you don't. But in any case, Hillary is the only one running whose plan is even remotely close to "living within one's means."

I put zero stock in what any major party candidate says during electioneering. It's all exactly what their paid advisers tell them will gain them power, nothing more and nothing less. In actual politics, Hillary is simply Bernie without ethics or a penis. She's saying what she perceives to be her path to power, Bernie is saying what he perceives to be his path to power, Cruz is saying what he perceives to be his path to power, Trump is . . . Well, Trump is Trump, who knows why he says what he says? But all G-d's chilluns values temporal power above ethics.

Your third party candidates, maybe they are being honest; since their own paid advisers tell them that nothing will gain them power this cycle, maybe they are honestly advocating what they believe is morally and practically correct, since they are trying to sway people long term more than gain votes short term. But major party candidates, they say whatever they believe will gain them the catbird seat. Because that's what we reward - not performance, but people telling us the lies we like to hear.

 

[senseamp]

OK, you can vote for Trump once GOP screws him and he runs as independent.

 

[werepossum]

OK, you can vote for Trump once GOP screws him and he runs as independent.

The only way I would ever vote for Trump is if someone who really scares me were running on the Democrat side, like Algore or Kerry. I consider Hillary the worst of the politicians, but still in the bunch, and I see no reason I would vote for Trump over her. Likewise, while I consider her preferable to Cruz and perhaps to Trump, I see no compelling reason to vote for her either. I plan on voting for Gary Johnson, and a pox on both their houses.

Although, as a registered Republican I can admit that the chance to give a big "fuck you very much" to the GOP establishment by voting for Trump as a spoiler is tempting.

 

[mect]

She is the only candidate from either party who is running on a platform that isn't from fantasyland. She's the one who is actually 'telling it like it is', unlike Sanders, Cruz, or Trump.

You can't have $20 trillion tax cuts for rich people without destroying our government.

You can't have health care for everyone without paying for it.

And so on.

For years you've been saying that universal health care is cheaper than private party. Are you changing your stance now?

 

[ivwshane]

For years you've been saying that universal health care is cheaper than private party. Are you changing your stance now?

No, he's saying bernie isn't being honest and upfront with what the costs would be.

 

[Jhhnn]

Bernie isn't being honest about what can be achieved. At this point, UHC is pie in the sky. We're barely holding on to the ACA for purely political reasons.

 

[ivwshane]

Bernie isn't being honest about what can be achieved. At this point, UHC is pie in the sky. We're barely holding on to the ACA for purely political reasons.

I disagree. I think bernie has been upfront about what he thinks he can achieve, his supporters, on the other hand, seem to have ignored his candidness or simply don't care. But bernie has stated multiple times that he cannot acheive anything without a revolution in Washington (meaning getting the money out of politics).

 

[mect]

No, he's saying bernie isn't being honest and upfront with what the costs would be.

What do you mean? He's said taxes will be increased on most people to cover the costs, but that most people will also save more on insurance compared to their increase in taxes. What is dishonest about that?

 

[ivwshane]

What do you mean? He's said taxes will be increased on most people to cover the costs, but that most people will also save more on insurance compared to their increase in taxes. What is dishonest about that?

See if you can find a reputable source that says his numbers add up.

 

[mect]

See if you can find a reputable source that says his numbers add up.

I agree he will probably have to increase taxes more than he is claiming in his detailed plan. However, I think the general premise of his argument is honest and correct. Overall, socialized medicine will save the average family money. If it can be accomplished (which is certainly a challenge) I don't see how any progressive could oppose it. It will cost us more to cover 100% of the population under the affordable care act (Clinton's plan) than it would with socialized health care.

 

[Genx87]

You are aware that trump thinks American workers are paid too much right? You are aware that trump likes trade, he just think the trade agreements we have aren't good for us.

Hopefully you aren't a trump supporter because I can't imagine a trump supporter who isn't even aware of their candidates policy positions.

Im not a trump supporter. Where did you get that idea? I have watched the debates. Trump rails on about illegals suppressing wages. Bernie rambles on about illegals suppressing wages. They both want to create an artificial barrier of entry for labor in this country to make Murrica great again.

 

[LPCTech]

Even if nothing Bernie says can actually be done, I think there will be benefit in the attempt.
He is the most "comfortable" candidate, one I would be proud to say to another country, this guy leads our nation. Also I dont greatly dislike him like every single other candidate. He is a guy who has consistently stood for the same things for many years. He wants to do what I would want to try to do if I was president. He has the same views I do and I know what his views really are. Every other candidate is a mystery toss up as to what they would actually do once elected. Not Bernie, Bernie will do the same as he has been doing for the last 30 years.

THAT is why he is the only choice. The only reason to vote Hillary is the supreme court. She will be a 4 year president if she gets elected as would Trump.

I retract my prior statement, I would vote for Hillary if I have too, but I dont want to have to. A Sanders/Warren ticket...ohh..(rubs nipples) lol even Sanders/Clinton..

 

[ivwshane]

I agree he will probably have to increase taxes more than he is claiming in his detailed plan. However, I think the general premise of his argument is honest and correct. Overall, socialized medicine will save the average family money. If it can be accomplished (which is certainly a challenge) I don't see how any progressive could oppose it. It will cost us more to cover 100% of the population under the affordable care act (Clinton's plan) than it would with socialized health care.

So you are saying his plan doesn't add up but he's still being honest.

Sure buddy.

Btw, "Clintons plan" is the same as bernies. The difference is that clinton is up front about the possibility of it ever happening. I'm sure you knew that though and you wouldn't be yet another bernie supporter purposely spreading lies and misinformation, right?

 

[ivwshane]

Im not a trump supporter. Where did you get that idea? I have watched the debates. Trump rails on about illegals suppressing wages. Bernie rambles on about illegals suppressing wages. They both want to create an artificial barrier of entry for labor in this country to make Murrica great again.

Try reading my post again, see if you can find your error.

 

[Genx87]

Try reading my post again, see if you can find your error.

Stop being a little passive aggressive prick and point it out for me. It is difficult enough conversing with you on this forum as I find you the worst of the worst. It is doubly so when you expect me to fill in your side of the conversation.

 

[Knowing]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...in-DC-After-Registration-Snafu-374042381.html

But D.C. Democrats did not email the candidates' registration information to the D.C. Board of Elections until a day after the registration deadline of March 16, News4's Tom Sherwood was first to report on Twitter.


A Democratic voter in D.C. filed a challenge against the Sanders' campaign's registration. No complaint was filed against Clinton's registration.

 

[Jhhnn]

The only way I would ever vote for Trump is if someone who really scares me were running on the Democrat side, like Algore or Kerry. I consider Hillary the worst of the politicians, but still in the bunch, and I see no reason I would vote for Trump over her. Likewise, while I consider her preferable to Cruz and perhaps to Trump, I see no compelling reason to vote for her either. I plan on voting for Gary Johnson, and a pox on both their houses.

Although, as a registered Republican I can admit that the chance to give a big "fuck you very much" to the GOP establishment by voting for Trump as a spoiler is tempting.

Yeh, you never know when those damned liberals will break out with a nuclear non-proliferation agreement or something equally horrifying.

 

[mect]

So you are saying his plan doesn't add up but he's still being honest.

Sure buddy.

Btw, "Clintons plan" is the same as bernies. The difference is that clinton is up front about the possibility of it ever happening. I'm sure you knew that though and you wouldn't be yet another bernie supporter purposely spreading lies and misinformation, right?

I'm saying that the basic premise of Sander's plan is perfectly reasonable. Do you deny that American's would spend less money on Sander's plan than on Clinton's?

Clinton's plan is to expand ACA to try to get everyone covered. You are still running a private health care system though. Sander's plan is to expand medicare to cover everyone. Or are you talking about Clinton's plan from 10 years ago back when she supported socialized medicine?

Sanders has also been up front about the possibilities. He's stated straight out, for this to happen, we need the people who want these things to come out and vote. He's said over and over again (ad nauseum) it will require a political revolution. A recent poll by Kaiser Health found that about 60% of Americans support Medicare for All, and the trend has been a continuing increase in support. So you are saying that something supported by 60% of Americans which is trending towards more support is unobtainable?

Honestly, health care isn't a big differentiator for me between Clinton and Sanders. Campaign finance reform, foreign policy, privacy rights, and gun rights are the reasons I support Sanders and not Clinton. Yeah, Clinton and Sanders have similar voting records, but the differences are on things that are pretty damn important. Things like the Patriot act. The Iraq war. Clinton is an Authoritarian. While Clinton might have admitted the Iraq war was a mistake, she still seems to have a similar, aggressive mentality. She still doesn't regret her vote on the Patriot act. I'd prefer to keep a few of my freedoms intact.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...in-DC-After-Registration-Snafu-374042381.html

They'll both be on the ballot, I'm sure.

Or-

Oh, God! Poor Bernie! There's this one guy in DC trying to fuck him over! Must be a Party stooge! They're all trying to fuck him!

Dirty rotten Democrats!

 

[ivwshane]

Stop being a little passive aggressive prick and point it out for me. It is difficult enough conversing with you on this forum as I find you the worst of the worst. It is doubly so when you expect me to fill in your side of the conversation.

Maybe you can show me where in my post I called you a trump supporter.

 

[ivwshane]

Hey I get it, bernie sanders supporters are voting for idealism. Nothing wrong with that.

What I take issue with is your inability to see that clinton is running on pragmatism and your continuous mischaracterization of Clintons positions on the issues.

We know universal health care is the best way to do health care, you just think Sanders will get you there quicker while I think hillarys approach is the smarter way to get there.

Who knows who is right but I do know what our history has shown and that is that change in this country happens slowly and incrementally. So you can stick with your idealism, I'm sure it will produce some sort of results someday, just like the results bernie has achieved in his whole political career. For me, I'll stick with the candidate that actually gets things done, even if the results are less than ideal.

I'm saying that the basic premise of Sander's plan is perfectly reasonable. Do you deny that American's would spend less money on Sander's plan than on Clinton's?

Clinton's plan is to expand ACA to try to get everyone covered. You are still running a private health care system though. Sander's plan is to expand medicare to cover everyone. Or are you talking about Clinton's plan from 10 years ago back when she supported socialized medicine?

Sanders has also been up front about the possibilities. He's stated straight out, for this to happen, we need the people who want these things to come out and vote. He's said over and over again (ad nauseum) it will require a political revolution. A recent poll by Kaiser Health found that about 60% of Americans support Medicare for All, and the trend has been a continuing increase in support. So you are saying that something supported by 60% of Americans which is trending towards more support is unobtainable?

Honestly, health care isn't a big differentiator for me between Clinton and Sanders. Campaign finance reform, foreign policy, privacy rights, and gun rights are the reasons I support Sanders and not Clinton. Yeah, Clinton and Sanders have similar voting records, but the differences are on things that are pretty damn important. Things like the Patriot act. The Iraq war. Clinton is an Authoritarian. While Clinton might have admitted the Iraq war was a mistake, she still seems to have a similar, aggressive mentality. She still doesn't regret her vote on the Patriot act. I'd prefer to keep a few of my freedoms intact.

 

[swamplizard]

Even if nothing Bernie says can actually be done, I think there will be benefit in the attempt.
He is the most "comfortable" candidate, one I would be proud to say to another country, this guy leads our nation. Also I dont greatly dislike him like every single other candidate. He is a guy who has consistently stood for the same things for many years. He wants to do what I would want to try to do if I was president. He has the same views I do and I know what his views really are. Every other candidate is a mystery toss up as to what they would actually do once elected. Not Bernie, Bernie will do the same as he has been doing for the last 30 years.

THAT is why he is the only choice. The only reason to vote Hillary is the supreme court. She will be a 4 year president if she gets elected as would Trump.

I retract my prior statement, I would vote for Hillary if I have too, but I dont want to have to. A Sanders/Warren ticket...ohh..(rubs nipples) lol even Sanders/Clinton..

Greetings,

I agree with most of your statement except that Bernie has been active in many areas for over 50 years. Those who think that he is saying what he thinks will get him elected, simply don't know Bernie or his history. Read a brief bio at:
http://www.biography.com/people/bernie-sanders
Bernie Sanders is for real and possibly the last chance that many of us will have to vote for integrity and social equality.

best regards,
swampy

 

[swamplizard]

Hey I get it, bernie sanders supporters are voting for idealism. Nothing wrong with that.

What I take issue with is your inability to see that clinton is running on pragmatism and your continuous mischaracterization of Clintons positions on the issues.

We know universal health care is the best way to do health care, you just think Sanders will get you there quicker while I think hillarys approach is the smarter way to get there.

Who knows who is right but I do know what our history has shown and that is that change in this country happens slowly and incrementally. So you can stick with your idealism, I'm sure it will produce some sort of results someday, just like the results bernie has achieved in his whole political career. For me, I'll stick with the candidate that actually gets things done, even if the results are less than ideal.

Greetings,

I will vote for Bernie in the primary, but if Hillary wins the nomination I will work for and support her in the general election. I hope that you can say the same if Bernie wins the nomination.

bestest regards,
swampy

 

[ivwshane]

Greetings,

I will vote for Bernie in the primary, but if Hillary wins the nomination I will work for and support her in the general election. I hope that you can say the same if Bernie wins the nomination.

bestest regards,
swampy

I've said as much myself! In fact I feel like I can't go wrong either way.

 

[swamplizard]

I've said as much myself! In fact I feel like I can't go wrong either way.

:thumbsup:
kudos

best regards,
swampy