Clinton "Scandals" vs. Trump "Scandals"

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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
the 30k plus emails she's deleted clearly in the attempt to evade the Freedom of Information Act requests and that what we find in those emails and speech transcripts is much more important than whatever is in his tax returns.

I'm not voting for either though, and 99% sure I'm just sitting this one out.

I rather doubt she was deleting email.

Section 802 of Sarbanes Oxley imposes fines of up to $1,000,000 and prison terms of up to 20 years for knowingly deleting an email with the intent to impede, obstruct or influence a current or future federal investigation.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Dems can shove Clinton up their collective ass. You guys didn't have to support a narcissist that felt the nomination was her birthright, but you did and now you're stuck with someone that actually has to fight to make a person as shitty as Donald Trump look like the worse candidate. I'll laugh my butt off if he wins. Don't think he will, but it will be a yuge source of hilarity.

Nearly every president that has ever served is understood to have wanted to have been president at some point in their lives. They've never been criticized for having such ambition--in fact, it's a strong virtue.

But not Hillary: she's a narcissist illegitimately clinging to this "birthright" dream of hers that she deserves to be president.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
In retrospect good thing democrats didn't pick a socialist to run given how much half the country hates even the centrists.

Yea, now they a got a candidate that is about as far right on foreign policy as GW Bush and who will sign TFF. TFF which will utterly destroy the ability of the elderly and those on fixed incomes to pay for their prescription medicine. TFF which will extend the lifetime of drug patents INTO THE DECADES. I would love to see drug research federalized.


The only real risk I see with Trump is a civilization ending nuclear inferno and the chances of that happening are probably less than 10%. That.... and the rest of the world laughing their asses off at us.
 
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DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,579
1,629
136
Nearly every president that has ever served is understood to have wanted to have been president at some point in their lives. They've never been criticized for having such ambition--in fact, it's a strong virtue.

But not Hillary: she's a narcissist illegitimately clinging to this "birthright" dream of hers that she deserves to be president.

I guess HamburgerBrain thinks that Reagan, Nixon and other men who ran, failed, ran again and won their party's nomination are distinctly different than Hillary. Other than party affiliation, which wouldn't matter for this discussion, I can think of only one thing that's different that stands out but then that would mean...

yeah.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Trump should be held to the same standards as Hillary when judging his scandals while he was serving the people of the United States as a public servant, all we need is someone to make a list of them.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
How is Hilary a crook and Trump isn't a bigger one? Did you even watch the clip in the first post? Why don't you call for Trump to release his taxes and then all his emails for the last 4 years as well? Wouldn't that make them equal? The false equivalence is maddening. Btw, you do know that Trump University was generally a scam, thus making him a crook who bilked people to pad his wealth.


Why should he call for Trump to release his last 4 years of emails? How would that make them equal? Clinton deleted (or had deleted) emails from when she was Secretary of State so she could circumvent FOIA rules in order to hide what she was doing from us the voting public. The optics are that she doesn't want us to see the peddling of influence and access in exchange for Clinton Foundation that took place, but currently this is more in the speculative territory. Trumpnever served as SoS however or any other public office that would fall under it, so he has no obligation nor expectation to release anything.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Gawd. We haven't ignored it- we've just been unable to bring those folks to reason. What's happened in all that is that the Job Creators have had their way with those people because they keep voting to have it that way. Witness Kansas. Witness Louisiana. Witness Mississippi, fer crissakes. The place would revert to delta ooze w/o federal subsidies.

True, so why does the left still insist on subsidizing failure? At some point, if you keep giving money to your drunken uncle, and he keeps spending it on booze or meth, and you STILL keep giving him money, you're as much a part of the problem as he is.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
True, so why does the left still insist on subsidizing failure? At some point, if you keep giving money to your drunken uncle, and he keeps spending it on booze or meth, and you STILL keep giving him money, you're as much a part of the problem as he is.

Because this is America & because it's not like the drunken uncle analogy at all.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,570
7,631
136
Please. From a perspective such as your own, it's impossible for Dems to field a half decent candidate because you oppose the platform of the Democratic Party.

One that didn't lead Obama into Libya and arm terrorists in Syria would be nice.
It's my disdain / regret for Bush that leads me to oppose Hillary. She is the Neocon platform clear as day.
You show me a picture of Aleppo, and I see a reason to hate those who started that fire.

You're telling me to vote for another Bush to avoid something worse. After all this forum did to speak out against Neocons a decade ago.
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,035
5,338
136
Trump should be held to the same standards as Hillary when judging his scandals while he was serving the people of the United States as a public servant, all we need is someone to make a list of them.
so because he is a private citizen he gets a pass on all of his potential scandals, including discriminatory housing, trump u, reneging on payment agreements, etc?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
One that didn't lead Obama into Libya and arm terrorists in Syria would be nice.
It's my disdain / regret for Bush that leads me to oppose Hillary. She is the Neocon platform clear as day.
You show me a picture of Aleppo, and I see a reason to hate those who fueled that fire.

More bullshit. It's not like we have hundreds of thousands of troops deployed on combat missions, is it? That we didn't find a constructive way to deal with the threat of nuclear weapons proliferation wrt Iran?

Clinton played a part in all of that.

Donald, of course, thinks that everybody should have nukes.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Nearly every president that has ever served is understood to have wanted to have been president at some point in their lives. They've never been criticized for having such ambition--in fact, it's a strong virtue.

But not Hillary: she's a narcissist illegitimately clinging to this "birthright" dream of hers that she deserves to be president.
It's more the irony that our first female President got there riding the coat tails of a man who represents the worst aspects of the patriarchy, a womanizer, adulterer and depending on who you ask, also a sexual predator.

I am totally cool with a President Warren. The Democrats have such a deep bench of qualified women, and yet they managed to nominate the most divisive.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
That right there reveals, in the starkest and most pointed way possible, the dark underbelly of your political views. You would be comfortable with Trump as President. Tell us, under it all, does he say a lot of what you've been thinking?

Oh so you're shifting to insult mode now. Acting like an asshole is a good tactic when you're trying to be persuasive, surely it will work.

Again, you might want to reconsider your core beliefs about what voting and democracy is all about. Yes, if tens of millions of my countrymen vote for Trump and he wins the election then I'll be comfortable with the results. Just as Clinton said she would accept the results if she lost. I've already said Trump wasn't my preferred candidate and neither is Clinton. He's a poor candidate and the only real upside I could see to him being elected is that perhaps your side might gain some very needed perspective and learn how to craft a proper political argument once again since "he'll be the next Hitler and start WW3" has been used before and ain't working. However unlike you evidently I'm somehow better able to mentally accept the results and move on and not go PUMA or Fort Sumter like you seem to be implying you'll be.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
More bullshit. It's not like we have hundreds of thousands of troops deployed on combat missions, is it? That we didn't find a constructive way to deal with the threat of nuclear weapons proliferation wrt Iran?

Clinton played a part in all of that.

Donald, of course, thinks that everybody should have nukes.

C;mon Jhnn, you did not address his point. Clinton has indicated she wants to take down Assad EVEN if it brings America into conflict with Russia. She makes no secret of this and is a fundamental foundation of her foreign policy plan. That doesn't happen without sending American kids into the meat grinder. What it does guarantee is years or decades more of civil wars. Removing the two most powerful entities leaves a bunch of scrubs to fight a civil war and PLENTY of opportunities for American corporations to made handsome profits on smart bombs.

When did the Democratic party become a bunch of warmongers? They have completely abandoned their roots. They are now as bloodthirsty and vicious as the rest of the neocons. Always supportive of bombing 3rd world nations that are incapable of defending themselves. It amounts to terrorism, we just call it droning. American foreign policy is morally bankrupt and is an apparent force for evil in the world.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Dems can shove Clinton up their collective ass. You guys didn't have to support a narcissist that felt the nomination was her birthright, but you did and now you're stuck with someone that actually has to fight to make a person as shitty as Donald Trump look like the worse candidate. I'll laugh my butt off if he wins. Don't think he will, but it will be a yuge source of hilarity.

What words or actions of hers have made you think she considers the nomination to be her birthright?
 

squarecut1

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2013
2,230
5
46
When did the Democratic party become a bunch of warmongers? They have completely abandoned their roots. They are now as bloodthirsty and vicious as the rest of the neocons.

.

LBJ, Democrat, Vietnam? Remember we were fighting the spread of Communism. The domino theory? Just the name of ism has changed. So I think you'll find that Democrats have no moral high ground on Republicans over this
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,775
49,434
136
Hillary is actually more likely to cause more innocent death and suffering around the world. Lack of empathy is part of her narcissistic nature. She is a well known chicken hawk...the kind of hawks who get others killed while they count their cash and properties, as the Clinton clan loves to do.

Heck even Obama was blasting Hillary on this back in 08.

Funny, considering Trump is the only person currently promising to invade other countries. He's also the definition of a chicken hawk. Sounds like he is actually the one most likely to cause innocent death considering his plans for invasion, no?

It's also bizarre to say the Clintons love counting their cash and properties considering that Trump publicly counts his cash and properties at every opportunity.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
C;mon Jhnn, you did not address his point. Clinton has indicated she wants to take down Assad EVEN if it brings America into conflict with Russia. She makes no secret of this and is a fundamental foundation of her foreign policy plan. That doesn't happen without sending American kids into the meat grinder. What it does guarantee is years or decades more of civil wars. Removing the two most powerful entities leaves a bunch of scrubs to fight a civil war and PLENTY of opportunities for American corporations to made handsome profits on smart bombs.

When did the Democratic party become a bunch of warmongers? They have completely abandoned their roots. They are now as bloodthirsty and vicious as the rest of the neocons. Always supportive of bombing 3rd world nations that are incapable of defending themselves. It amounts to terrorism, we just call it droning. American foreign policy is morally bankrupt and is an apparent force for evil in the world.

You're projecting.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
There were a lot of people saying the same thing about Nader. And look what Bush gave us. Unless you believe Gore would have invaded Iraq and trashed he Economy.

I can see voting 3rd party in the Romney/Obama election or if you live in a non swing state this election but when choosing to vote third party (or basically not vote) when someone clearly unhinged is running? You deserve all the moral culpability for all the ill he does.

Gore was very much a war hawk and no different than any other candidate that either party had fielded for president. He is on record for supporting US foreign policy prior to and after 9/11 including the invasion and regime change in Iraq. He indeed would have done the exact same as Bush.

https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2004/gore/gore092302sp.html

Well documented.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=gore+would+have+invaded+Iraq
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126
Why should he call for Trump to release his last 4 years of emails? How would that make them equal? Clinton deleted (or had deleted) emails from when she was Secretary of State so she could circumvent FOIA rules in order to hide what she was doing from us the voting public. The optics are that she doesn't want us to see the peddling of influence and access in exchange for Clinton Foundation that took place, but currently this is more in the speculative territory. Trumpnever served as SoS however or any other public office that would fall under it, so he has no obligation nor expectation to release anything.

Let me ask you, what expectation does Hilary have to release any more than she did (remember they were on a private server)? Should she release emails from her other private accounts as well? And if you care so much about the peddling of influence shouldn't you be more concerned that Trump hasn't released his tax returns so we can know the extent of his business interests and who he would be financially beholden to if president?

This election cycle is quite odd. Every issue you have with Clinton is 100% more problematic for Trump, yet that fact seems to allude you. You are talking about a A+ rated foundation that her husband is in charge of that actually does real life good work. Yet on the other hand Trump is plundering his own foundation for personal gain. He also has tons of shady business dealing with all types of shady foreign leaders and banks that actually make him money. He will not release his tax records so the American people can know what they are and hasn't really been asked nor said what he will do with those business dealings if elected president. Yet your concern is that Hilary met with with a Nobel Peace prize winner who also happened to donate to her husbands foundation? Odd indeed.
 
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WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Voting for Random Minor Party Candidate Number 12 is doing zip to change the system. If it's giving you a warm fuzzy or a sense of accomplishment, then that's fine, but that's all it's doing.

Work to change the system in the long-term, but don't throw away the short-term.

In a way you are right.

(from wikipedia) In 1988, the League of Women Voters withdrew its sponsorship of the presidential debates after the George H.W. Bush and Michael Dukakis campaigns secretly agreed to a "memorandum of understanding" that would decide which candidates could participate in the debates, which individuals would be panelists (and therefore able to ask questions)

Hence the Committee on Presidential Debates was formed.
That was in response to growing pressure from 3rd party candidates and the two parties that sought to retain their level of power, wealth, influence, and control over politics and indeed the country. They then upped the magical percentage to get into their closed party debate format to 15% for 3rd party candidates.

So... If you think the two party system isn't rigged, then I call bullshit on your response above. If you want to change the system, you have to allow people their voice and if that voice is a 3rd party candidate then so be it. This election cycle we have two turds running for president and it is VERY obviously the nature of the rigged system of debates, the questionable tactics of the DNC with the Sanders campaign and ongoing collusion with the media to enforce the two party system and force these candidates down our throats.
As many here have said, voting for a 3rd party is indeed a choice and probably represents the vote of someone not stupid enough to be polarized by the media to vote for Hillary or Trump. I'll be voting 3rd party this year and screw anyone that suggests I'm throwing my vote away. Screw anyone who suggests to me that voting for Hillary or Trump is the "moral" or "honorable" thing to do (Yes, that is what shills for Hillary are saying).

You are not going to change the two party system. You just aren't. It has had decades to become corrupt, decades to build in it's protections.
 
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