Clinton should have known about 9/11

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
This is aimed at all you "Bush knew" conspiracy nuts!

Italian Wiretaps Hint at 9-11
Wed May 29,12:58 AM ET
By PIERO VALSECCHI, Associated Press Writer

MILAN, Italy (AP) - Wiretapped conversations between a sheik from Yemen and the leader of a Milan mosque reveal what police say are predictions of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, including a boast of a "terrifying" operation by "a madman," according to a newspaper report.

Excerpts of the conversations, which took place in 2000 and early 2001, ran in Tuesday's editions of Milan daily Corriere della Sera.

The conversations were between Abdulsalam Abdulrahman, the sheik, who had traveled to Italy, and Abdelkader Mahmoud Es Sayed, who fled Italy two months before the attacks.

U.S. officials consider Es Sayed to be the organizer of a Milan cell of al-Qaida, the terrorist network of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites). An Egyptian national, he was convicted of the 1997 massacre at Luxor in which 58 foreign tourists were killed.

The chief of the Milan office of DIGOS, Italy's anti-terrorism police, confirmed the newspaper's transcripts. Massimo Mazza told The Associated Press that his office turned the transcripts over a few days ago to prosecutor Stefano Dambruoso, who is leading Italy's probe into Italian-based al-Qaida operatives.

In one conversation, in the summer of 2000, the sheik tells the mosque leader, or imam: "In the future, listen to the news and remember these words: `above the head.'"

The sheik says the action will be "one of those strikes that you never forget." He added that it will be a "terrifying thing, it will move from south to north, from east to west. He who made this plan is a madman, but a genius. It will turn you to ice."

The sheik also says: "Ah, yes, there are big clouds in the sky, there in that country, the fire is already lit and it's just waiting for the wing ... All the newspapers in the world will write about it."

Before Sept. 11, investigators had few clues about what the men might be discussing, Mazza told the AP. "After what happened, it's now easy to draw conclusions ... but before, it was difficult to understand."

Authorities eavesdropped on the two by bugging places where they were, not by tapping telephone lines; it took a long time to remove extraneous noise from the recordings and translate them, he said.

Corriere della Sera reported that the FBI helped Italian experts to decipher the bugged conversations.

According to a transcript of a January 2001 conversation between the imam and a Tunisian who was later arrested in Milan by Italy's anti-terrorist police, there is discussion of false documents.

The Tunisian asks: "Are they needed for our brothers who will go in the United States?"

"Don't ever repeat these words!" the imam warns.


Do I think Clinton is to blame? Hell no, just as I don't think Bush is either. I'm just pointing out how ludicrous it is to try and blame any President for what happened on 9/11. Just goes to show that as far back as 2000 there were hints that something was brewing. Key word being hints. I put the key sentence in bold for you schmucks that think anyone could have seen exactly what was coming. Now stop playing the blame game and just go on about your lives.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Dude... give it a rest
Trying to. Want the morons that insist on trying to blame President Bush to see as much info as they can that there were hints that something was going to go down back in 2000 and probably even earlier than that. Just sick of them trying to point fingers at the man because they have a personal vendetta against him.
 

spazntwich1

Banned
Apr 22, 2001
839
0
0
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Dude... give it a <EM>rest

</em>nik

I think it's time for SOMEONE ELSE to take a rest, too. You're getting cranky.

When's your bed time, anyway?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Jesus Shinerburke, everybody knows that those who blame Bush are a couple of cards short of a full deck. In fact they are best ignored. Why did you have to bring this up? Now those wankers will be posting responses. Who the fsck cares what some nutcases think?
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Dude... give it a rest
Trying to. Want the morons that insist on trying to blame President Bush to see as much info as they can that there were hints that something was going to go down back in 2000 and probably even earlier than that. Just sick of them trying to point fingers at the man because they have a personal vendetta against him.


I guess you missed the latest issue of Time magazine. Don't bother replying to me (I don't write the news stories) - write a letter to them.
 

pulse8

Lifer
May 3, 2000
20,860
1
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Jesus Shinerburke, everybody knows that those who blame Bush are a couple of cards short of a full deck. In fact they are best ignored. Why did you have to bring this up? Now those wankers will be posting responses. Who the fsck cares what some nutcases think?

ACK!!!

I agree with Red Dawn.

AHHHHHHHHH!


 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Who the fsck cares what some nutcases think?
I know, I know. I should just leave them alone in their happy place where Jane Fonda is had of the Politburo, where nobody has a job and the govt. takes care of them, where Alec Baldwin personally delivers everyone's mail, and where the French are actually respected. But, but I just can't help myself.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
I still blame the French



















(for letting all these wackos think that terrorism works by ducking out of Algeria after a few cafe bombings....)
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
It doesn't matter what a bunch of 16-30 year old computer geeks that know nothing about government, intelligence, Islam, terrorism, or any of that think. Let everyone here blame who they want, it's a pointless argument.
 

DaiShan

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
9,617
1
0
Originally posted by: spazntwich1
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Dude... give it a <EM>rest

</em>nik

I think it's time for SOMEONE ELSE to take a rest, too. You're getting cranky.

When's your bed time, anyway?
Heh apparently you didn't read the thread about his tech support job, if you had, you would definitely understand lol
 

BlueApple

Banned
Jul 5, 2001
2,884
0
0
I think in the mid 90?s it was not a priority at all for either side of the aisle. Of course Bush didn?t know about it, neither did Clinton. What happened was a breakdown in intelligence structure and communication. I don?t think a single person in the US Gov?t knew what was going to happen, but there were many who had some part of the puzzle that formed what we now know of the events of 9/11.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
where Alec Baldwin personally delivers everyone's mail
So THAT explains my crappy RR delivery service! :Q
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,281
9,365
146
Nope, I heard Texmaster put in a change of address card for you.
You heard wrong. He put one in for himself, right out of here, when he crossed the line beyond honor and common sense. Death before dishonor.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Yes, let's blame Clinton.
Great way to govern a country when a response to any problem is to blame it on Clinton. But what can we expect if we elect (or something) an idiot whose only claim to fame is that he is not Bill Clinton and his daddy is Bush 41.
 

HiveMaster

Banned
Apr 11, 2002
490
0
0
Do you know when the conversations in 2000 took place? If they took place after november 2000, there is responsibility to pass around. Other conversations took place in 2001, is Clinton responsible for those?

Harry Truman had a sign on his desk. It said "the buck stops here." Maybe instead of leaking little pieces of information, the FBI and CIA could come clean and let the authorities see ALL the documents that relate to this case. And maybe Bush could admit that screwups occured on his watch.



FBI Says Clues May Have Been Missed
The Associated Press
May 29 2002 10:42PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - FBI Director Robert Mueller said Wednesday there may have been more missed clues before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, and he suggested for the first time that investigators might have uncovered the plot if they had been more diligent about pursuing leads.
``The jury is still out on all of it,'' Mueller said, during a wide-ranging, two-hour presentation at FBI headquarters. ``Looking at it right now, I can't say for sure it would not have, that there wasn't a possibility that we could have come across some lead that would have led us to the hijackers.''

Mueller noted two documents Wednesday that he said might have tipped authorities to terrorist plans for suicide hijackings, including efforts by an unidentified Middle Eastern country, where U.S. sales are restricted, to buy a commercial flight simulator.

Mueller's remarks came after his announcement of a broad reorganization of the nation's premier law enforcement agency - changes at least partly in response to criticism of the FBI after the attacks. The director is moving hundreds of agents, mostly from drug investigations, to focus on terrorism and prevent future attacks.

The FBI's new marching orders will focus on terrorists, spies and hackers, in that order.

Meanwhile, the Justice Department prepared to announce new guidelines lifting restrictions on the FBI to make it easier for agents to begin and pursue terrorism investigations without approval from FBI headquarters. The changes, to be announced Thursday by Attorney General John Ashcroft, also lift restrictions on the FBI's use of the Internet and public libraries to give agents more freedom to investigate terrorism even when they are not pursuing a particular case.

The new guidelines, obtained by The Associated Press, allow officials running any of 56 FBI offices around the country to approve new terrorism investigations. Under previous rules, only Mueller or his assistant directors could approve them.

Mueller's statement on clues represented the first time any senior official in the Bush administration has allowed that counterterrorism investigators might have detected and averted the Sept. 11 hijackings if they had recognized what they were collecting. That question is the focus of a congressional inquiry, and is almost certain to come up next week during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on the FBI's reorganization plans.

``Putting all the pieces together, who is to say?'' Mueller said, though he also noted that those pieces amounted to ``snippets in a veritable river of information.'' Mueller took over as FBI director just days before Sept. 11.

Ashcroft said the time had come to change the ``structure, culture and mission'' of the agency.

President Bush has bristled over suggestions that the government knew enough to avert the attacks. ``Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to kill on that fateful morning, I would have done everything in my power to protect the American people,'' Bush said earlier this month.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, praised the reorganization plan, saying it could ``substantially improve the FBI's ability to investigate and prevent terrorism.''

The FBI disclosed two other clues Wednesday that it said might be relevant to the investigation into the September hijackings. A Middle Eastern country where U.S. shipments are restricted sought unsuccessfully before Sept. 11 to buy a commercial flight simulator, and an FBI pilot in 1998 expressed concerns to a supervisor in Oklahoma City about a number of Arab men seeking flight training.

The unidentified pilot told his supervisor ``that he has observed large numbers of Middle Eastern males receiving flight training at Oklahoma airports in recent months,'' according to a copy of the memo. The pilot added that ``this is a recent phenomenon and may be related to planned terrorist activity.'' He also ``speculates that light planes would be an ideal means of spreading chemical or biological agents.''

The FBI memo, dated May 18, 1998, was marked ``routine'' and never was forwarded to FBI headquarters.

The FBI would not identify the country that sought to buy the simulator except to say it was not one publicly connected to the September attacks. It said the information was given to the FBI by another U.S. agency that it would not identify.

Asked whether investigators might discover more clues that were already in their possession hinting at suicide hijackings, Mueller said: ``There may be others out there.''

He also expressed regret about FBI headquarters mishandling a memorandum from its Phoenix office expressing concern about a large number of Arabs seeking pilot, security and airport operations training at one U.S. flight school.

Mueller said Wednesday that midlevel FBI managers should have immediately given the Phoenix memo to top FBI officials, the CIA and FBI agents in local offices who might have recognized the significance of the information.

``There were a number of things that organizationally should have happened,'' Mueller said. He has asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate whether any FBI employees should be punished.

Mueller previously had said that the Phoenix memo was not detailed enough, by itself, to suggest the hijacking plot.

He also disclosed Wednesday that he did not learn about the memo until after Sept. 14, when he had said at a news conference: ``The fact that there were a number of individuals that happened to have received training at flight schools is news, quite obviously. If we had understood that to be the case, we would have - perhaps one could have averted this.''

``I was wrong, and I found out I was wrong afterward,'' Mueller said Wednesday.

Mueller praised Coleen Rowley, an FBI lawyer in Minnesota who wrote a letter harshly critical of the FBI's handling of its investigation of accused terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui. He described Minnesota agents as being ``tremendously aggressive'' in arranging for Moussaoui's arrest in August 2001, adding: ``We should have been more aggressive here in supporting them.''

Mueller did not say whether he believed there was sufficient evidence to search Moussaoui's computer and home - a central question in FBI's handling of that investigation in the weeks before Sept. 11.

Mueller said Rowley's job was ``absolutely not'' at risk, and said he wrote a personal letter to her over the weekend. ``Look, it's hard to take criticism,'' Mueller added. ``The fact of the matter is, I welcome her criticism.''
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Jesus Shinerburke, everybody knows that those who blame Bush are a couple of cards short of a full deck. In fact they are best ignored. Why did you have to bring this up? Now those wankers will be posting responses. Who the fsck cares what some nutcases think?

A couple cards? He's got about enough cards to play Yahtzee...

That's why its ridiculous to blame Bush. It's like blaming a puppet for what the hand does. The fbi is obviously more to blame than him, and it sounds like Mueller has been making concessions along those lines.

As for blaming Clinton, its quite a reach but leave it to Shinerburke to make the effort.


 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Yes, let's blame clinton.
Great way to govern a country when a response to any problem is to blame it on clinton. But what can we expect if we elect (or something) an idiot whose only claim to fame is that he is not Bill clinton and his daddy is Bush 41.
You didn't bother to read the original post did you?
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
As for blaming Clinton, its quite a reach but leave it to Shinerburke to make the effort.
Looks like you didn't read it either. Let me say again what I said in my first post. Do I think Clinton is to blame? Hell no, just as I don't think Bush is either.

Try doing some reading comprehension next time.
 
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