Close call on the bike...

[Tachyon74]

So since I see another "new guy looking for a motorcycle" thread every few days around here, I know there's a decent number of riders that hang out here. So, story time!

I'm a fairly new rider, I took the MSF course here in late July, got my license, and got a 1983 Honda Nighthawk 550. I've been riding to work whenever the weather is nice, and otherwise just around town every now and then. Although I've been riding a little less than two months, I have been building confidence and (hopefully) getting enough practice in to be a better rider. I don't go anywhere without my helmet on (full face), and lately I got a nice new Cortech mesh jacket, so I pretty much always wear that too. (It's comfortable when its hot, and I can zip in layers for when its cold). I am pretty paranoid about drivers, and so I stay out of peoples blind spots and try to assume that no one around me sees me and will do something stupid at any moment.

Anyway, Wed. evening I was out on a ride. I was going down the road at about 50 mph or so. Nice straight section of the road (this is Iowa after all). There was a minivan ahead of me, but I don't tailgate, so I wasn't that close. Well I look and see brake lights so I squeeze the clutch and the brakes and start to slow down a little. Then as I'm watching, the van is getting WAY too close WAY too fast, so I go into panic stop mode, and give a good amount on both brakes. I felt my rear wheel lock up (which happens a lot, so I didn't panic), but in the class they told us not to let off the brakes if the rear wheel locks because it can cause a crash, so instead I tried to give it a little more on the front brake as well. I'm still getting closer to the van, and I start fishtailing. Again, I've had to make a quick stop before, so this is not completely new to me, but I really lost control of the bike because it started fishtailing much worse than I have ever had it before, and definitely more than I am comfortable with. It happened pretty fast, so I don't know if I locked the front wheel as well, but the whole bike was swerving and it started leaning pretty bad to my left so I thought for sure I was gonna lay it down.

Meanwhile the minivan turned (maybe he decided to get out of the way already when he heard squealing tires behind him). So just about when I thought I was gonna go down for sure, I was clear in front so I tried to get control of the bike again as I let off the brakes. I'm not really sure how I did it to be honest, but I know when it felt like I was falling, i instinctively put a foot down to try and stabilize myself (i put down my right foot). I realize that was probably a bad idea, and it hurt pretty good when my foot hit the pavement, but after I did it, it straightened the bike out and I got control back.

After that I slowed down, downshifted, and took a few deep breaths while trying to figure out how exactly I got out of that.

Anyway I swear I felt the bike swerving a little after that, but I think it was in my head because the tires looked ok and it didn't give me any trouble yesterday.

I still can't quite figure how putting my right foot down helped when I felt like I was falling left, although like I said, it happened fast, and I might have leaned over to the other side while i was trying to get out of it. I also think putting my foot down was probably a bad idea, even though I didn't manage to break my ankle and it seems like the one thing that kept me from putting it down. Also I still don't really know if I wasn't paying attention at the critical moment or if that guy just really hit the brakes hard to make his turn. I'm just glad that my instincts kept me out of a wreck and I didn't hurt myself trying to avoid it.

 

[Thump553]

I had a bike for one year in my youth. Twice a car driver comng the other way turned left right in front of me and each time it was my skill and luck that saved my bacon. A little while after the second incident I witnessed an accident where someone turned left in front of the bike. It put a good size dent in the side of the station wagon but was fatal to the biker.

That fall I got rid of my bike. They are fun (when it's not raining) but there are just too many bad drivers on the road to justify the risk.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Close calls are part of life. After 20+ years of riding you kind of take them with a aplomb. Not that I am saying they aren't to be feared but you develop riding habits to minimize them.

I commute with my bike on occasion and have taken very long trips on the various bikes I owned. One wreck early on that gave me a good dose of riding right.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Were you goddamn asleep during the class?

1.) Your front brake has all the stopping power, you need to find a parking lot & learn how to ease gently off the rear brake as the weight transfers from the rear wheel to the front as you're using both brakes, and gradually put more pressure on the front brake lever as the weight is transferring.

2.) Don't put your foot down again, likely some input into front wheel direction stopped your skid, by putting your foot down, you broke one of the cardinal rules, and if your bike would have flipped the other direction, and they frequently do if you're in a skid, it would have snapped your ankle like a twig.

2.) You failed to pay attention to your surroundings by allowing your following distance to shorten so abruptly.

<-----MSF instructor for years


I'm not really as mean as that sounded, but re-read your workbook on braking, you should have had a better handle on the physics of braking than you appear to have learned during the class.

 

[jvisaria]

I just had the class session of my MSF course on wednesday.. and the coach also told us not to ease off the rear if it locks...
or are you making a point that would prevent the rear locking?

either way there was no mention of easing pressure from one brake to another, just told us to use both brakes... maybe we have crumby instructors?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: jvisaria
I just had the class session of my MSF course on wednesday.. and the coach also told us not to ease off the rear if it locks...
or are you making a point that would prevent the rear locking?

either way there was no mention of easing pressure from one brake to another, just told us to use both brakes... maybe we have crumby instructors?

The theory is that you can only concentrate on one brake at a time, I don't agree, I quit riding & teaching nearly 10 years ago, they've changed the curriculum.

Currently they recommend using the rear brake & trying to not skid, but to not release the rear brake if you do start to skid, and focus on the front brake, where the majority of your stopping power is.

When I grew up, we had hydraulic brakes (they were relatively new on mass produced bikes) & we used to play around locking up our rear brakes and releasing them at highway speeds, that's when I started modulating pressure on the rear brakes, after developing a very good feel for them. But I guess that's just me, always had difficulty doing the rear brake skidding exercise because of it, took nearly 6 months of teaching to get the hang of locking up my rear brake.

They should have discussed the weight transfer & that the FRONT brake provides the most stopping power though, IIRC???

So, how do you stop in the shortest distance possible? The textbook response states you should achieve full application of both brakes without skidding. As you apply more and more pressure on the front brake (up to the point of lockup), you will have more traction available to the front tire (for more braking) resulting in progressively less traction available to the rear. To keep from skidding the rear wheel, you will need to modulate the rear brake. For every Racer X those pundits cite for not using his rear brake when stopping, there is a Racer Y who uses just a little rear brake to settle the rear suspension and a Racer Z who uses a lot. Also, these examples don't readily apply to street riders since skilled racers know exactly where the point of brake lockup is, while most of us are far from that point with the front brake?even in panic-stop situations.

Keep in mind the MSF course is only a starting point on your development of riding skills, the course puts riders on the same level as someone that has been riding for 6 months without a class, and you learn every time you fire one up & ride it.

I highly recommend the advanced course too, it's a lot less like boot camp & much more fun. Also, if you have the time, they're always looking for instructors, and it's an opportunity to write off your bike & gear on taxes

 

[jagec]

It's kind of disturbing that your rear wheel locks up "a lot." Every time it locks up, that means you screwed up your braking! I'd correct this habit, NOW.

Correct emergency braking: Squeeze front and press rear simultaneously. Let up on rear as weight transfers forward, and squeeze more on the front.

My personal opinion is that when you're in a panic stop situation, open with both brakes, but as soon as weight starts transferring forward concentrate fully on the front brake and release the rear entirely. If you're a really good rider, have a lot of experience, or race professionally, you can probably modulate both brakes pretty well, but I don't believe most amateurs are capable of that. Once weight has transferred, your front brake provides the vast majority of stopping power anyway...up to 100% in some cases (not recommended). You might give up a little bit of braking by releasing the rear entirely, but at least the bike will stay straight.

I also believe that IF you feel the rear sliding out and you realize it quickly enough, you can release the rear brake and regain control. I've done it a couple of times, both in practice and in an actual emergency stop. The reason the MSF teaches you not to let up on the rear when it locks is that they don't want people to start to skid, have the rear end come halfway around, and then think "Oh I'm skidding I need to use less brake!", and then release it and cause a highside. If your tire isn't far off from the line of travel, you ought to be able to deal with it fairly easily. But before I started riding, I used to practice pushing my car to the limits of performance, and autocrossing. So I learned how to steer into a skid/catch a car as it regained traction.