Closed

[Raising]

The money saved for using AMD was not worth the shitty experience of using crossfire 5850s and 7950s where more than half of the games I played had no support and the ones that did had issues like flickering.

With nvidia everything I play has SLI support with little to no problems even on release day.

Just browsing the latest AMD drivers notes it looks like a shopping list full of crossfire problems, dodged a bullet by not going with AMD again imo.

 

[Deders]

The money saved for using AMD was not worth the shitty experience of using crossfire 5850s and 7950s where more than half of the games I played had no support and the ones that did had issues like flickering.

With nvidia everything I play has SLI support with little to no problems even on release day.

Just browsing the latest AMD drivers notes it looks like a shopping list full of crossfire problems, dodged a bullet by not going with AMD again imo.

I believe AMD have massively improved their drivers since then, and Nvidia's record has been far from perfect.

 

[rgallant]

great post RS

 

[kondziowy]

$0 290X vs. $700 780Ti. :sneaky:

The money saved for using AMD was not worth the shitty experience

This sums it up perfectly, I see AMD -for the last 2 years- as a choice of a power user, tweaking his card / undervolting, and making it pay for itself reducing price to 0$. Nvidia is a terrible value for a person like this - nothing will beat gaming for free.
But the majority of ppl don't do this, and I hope AMD will target them also. They are trying - autoupdates in Crimson are the first big step

 

[Silverforce11]

Take the 2015 titles. Isolate console vs non-console titles and this is what you get..

R9 290x vs GTX 780 Ti (non-console)
1080p: GTX 780 Ti is 8.3% faster
1440p: GTX 780 Ti is 1.7% faster

R9 290x vs GTX 780 Ti (console)
1080p: R9 290x is 16.2% faster
1440p: R9 290x is 20.8% faster

See a pattern?

Let's do the same thing but comparing a GTX 980 vs R9 290x..

R9 290x vs GTX 980 (non-console)
1080p: GTX 980 is 33.5% faster
1440p: GTX 980 is 29.3% faster

R9 290x vs GTX 980 (console)
1080p: GTX 980 is 8.1% faster
1440p: GTX 980 is 5.6% faster

Now as we move towards DX12 and Async Compute titles. That 10-20% boost Async compute offers, as well as the API overhead alleviation of DX12 should result in the R9 290x being around 5-15% faster than a GTX 980. (We can ignore the Rise of the Tomb Raider DX12 patch as it is broken but once fixed you'll see).

What we're seeing is the console effect. With Microsoft pushing unity between the PC and console platforms then we're going to see this push NVIDIA towards a more GCN-like uarch or they won't be able to compete

Indeed it is the GCN console effect in full swing in combination with NV no longer bothering to optimize Kepler in their Game Ready drivers.

Prior to this, I always saw that Maxwell only slightly under-perform in GCN optimized games (consoles), but your numbers show it suffers similar to Kepler, around 20-25% gap.

But that can't be right. Because if both Kepler & Maxwell suffer a similar amount, the order of the GPU should remain the same. ie. 980 > 780Ti > 970 > 780 > 960.

What we see from other review sites is in games where GCN is optimized, the order becomes like this: 980 > 970 > 780Ti > 780 ~= 960.

Data from other tech sites show that Kepler tanks more in next-gen games. So I question the validity of ABT again with their numbers.

From the recent charts, I would say Maxwell only loses ~10% performance in GCN optimized games, typically the 390X is slightly ahead of the 980, 390 is close to the 980 and ~20% above the 970. If it was a 20-25% perf deficit according to ABT, the 390X will be well ahead of the 980, nearing the 980Ti, and that just doesn't happen (outside of DX12 Ashes/Hitman).

 

[therealnickdanger]

It's a good thing AMD/NVIDIA don't put a guarantee on "future performance".

 

[RussianSensation]

If of course you want to spend most of your time and electric dedicating the card to crypto currency. I think elec costs more in Britian than other the USA so it's not really worth it. Can't say for other countries.

As always you bring up a lot of good points, but although many will share your logic, others may want different things from their cards. We've been through this so many times in different threads so I don't want to start all that up again.

Fair points for markets with higher electricity costs. We'll leave it at that. Now how about $299 HD6950@6970 speeds vs. $499 580 (put $ saved towards a 7950/7970); or $399 after-market 290 vs. $699 780Ti)? Just over those 2 generations alone, that's a whopping $500 US saved to get more or less similar gaming performance on average.

What about the time when people paid $450 for a 680 when after-market 7950 V2 was $280-300? What about $299 R9 280X vs. $380-450 US 770 2-4GB?

What about $399 GTX 260 vs. $299 HD4870? Go back years, besides the horrendous HD2000/3000 series, buying more expensive NV cards has been a money pit. Even if 780/780Ti performed on par with 290/290X, still makes them overpriced and VRAM neutered.

The Maxwell generation is almost wrapped up and already similar patterns are emerging. Besides 980Ti, not a single card Maxwell's gen card looks great anymore. I suppose 950 has its HTPC / Low power as great selling features.

Essentially, since at least Sept 2009 HD5850 era, a gamer would have been generally better off buying an AMD card, taking the NV premium and re-investing it towards a next (gen) upgrade; at least this is true for the North American markets. My point here is that ignoring price when looking at how well a card has aged is not capturing the full picture. Also, looking at the last 5 years, a 7970 OC user could have easily coasted on that card while someone else went 670/680 --> 780 and yet today both the 780 and 7970 are due for an upgrade. Looks like for the non-1% 980Ti class, owning NV costs way more and Kepler is more of a trend, rather than the exception.

We didn't even get to the G-Sync vs. FreeSync premium. Add that in and it becomes almost irrelevant comparing 290X vs. 780Ti head-to-head, unless $ isn't a factor -- but then we'd be on 6700K+980Ti (SLI), right?

 

[happy medium]

It's interesting that the entire analysis of R9 290X vs. 780Ti presented by ABT ignores 2 major areas

It not ABT, and there is a forum there, go tell him.
Or is there just more traffic here?
In fact do a review yourself. I'm sure I can pick apart every review I see but out of respect for the hard work reviewers do for our benefit ,I don't or try not to.

I respect your posts but really its hard to debate with the overload of information, sometimes not even pertaining to any one subject.

I think its a perfect way for you to get your message across and either have people just read your posts or just say , "hey good post".
I mean I have a real job, I just don't have the time to debate you with your full time job.

Me, I'm tired of the broken record over an over.
Mabe try to make a thread , mabe that would help.
Try something other than Nvidia bashing , and cost /performance.
Think you can do that?

and before some AMD PR specialist says it, I'll say it for ya.

I LOVE READING RS INFORMATIVE< LONG, AMD sponsored post.
Is there any other answer?
Oh the Irony, beat you to it.

Infraction noted and well worth it.

I mean look at this forum vs ours , same question, same day and time.
besides the few guys from here that picked up over there , it's a good discussion.
https://hardforum.com/threads/has-n...the-gtx-780-ti-vs-the-290x-revisited.1895788/



I mean wheres the moderation? crypto currency? mining, really?!
better off locking the thread , which is what marketers want.
Anand would roll over in his desk if he saw this stuff.

Mod callouts are not allowed
Markfw900

 

[Silverforce11]

and before some AMD PR specialist says it, I'll say it for ya.

I LOVE READING RS INFORMATIVE< LONG, AMD sponsored post.

RS is actually very objective, you can see in the other thread he is dissing Fury or Nano and recommends the 980Ti due to it's OC potential.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38137742&postcount=35

What he say is true however, in the mid-range segment, 390/X stomps on the competition. It was the same back in the 290/X days. Imagine you had 390/X performance in since 2014 for $220/250. That was non-reference 290/X.

The problem with this thread and OP, is you want us to discuss FLAWED data from ABT. I just made an above post to demonstrate why it's clearly flawed.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38138557&postcount=130

^ Before that, I even posted evidence from other tech sites to show clearly how flawed ABT's data is, but that was not "on topic" apparently.

What exactly are we meant to discuss when we base on ABT's data? Because they think Maxwell tanks the same or more than Kepler in new games. Which we know is demonstrably FALSE.

 

[happy medium]

I LOVE READING RS INFORMATIVE

What he say is true however, in the mid-range segment, 390/X stomps on the competition. It was the same back in the 290/X days. Imagine you had 390/X performance in since 2014 for $220/250. That was non-reference 290/X.

so your saying this belongs in this thread? really>
Your no better than him.
Your like his parrot.
I'm expecting a few others ...........shouldn't take long....

 

[happy medium]

Don't forget that for almost the entire life of GCN you've been able to mine one flavor of profitable coin or another. My old 7950 bought be a 290 with the coins it made and that 290 paid itself off again with coins. And I've yet to begin ethereum to have my 2 290s pay their value out again

another one, another of your buddys silverforce?
mabe I should moderate my own thread?

calling out other members is not allowed
Markfw900

 

[happy medium]

Sorry, but the credibility of the source matters. apoppin has none.

I even reported this one, after someone else did the same thing and got a warning/

 

[Det0x]

so your saying this belongs in this thread? really>
Your no better than him.
Your like his parrot.
I'm expecting a few others ...........shouldn't take long....

Well then link me to your proof or please make a new thread about your comradery theory.

I cant have the readers of my/this thread being derailed by your opinion.
Check forum rules please.
link or leave.
thanks

 

[happy medium]

Well then link me to your proof or please make a new thread about your comradery theory.

I cant have the readers of my/this thread being derailed by your opinion.
Check forum rules please.
link or leave.
thanks

the usual 10 post guy, A.K.A. someone with 2 accounts.

 

[Silverforce11]

I even reported this one, after someone else did the same thing and got a warning/

You ask us to discuss the data.

We are.

The data from ABT is not agreeing with data from other more credible tech sites. I explained why that is the case.

Do you disagree? If so, feel free to show evidence why you think ABT's data is correct and other sites are wrong.

When you can't do that, you resort to ad hominem attacks and calling others who disagree with you AMD sponsored or shills.

You even suggest the mods are biased because they aren't infracting others who disagree with you?

Nothing I posted here deserves an infraction because each of my post is accurate and backed with evidence. I have also not resorted to calling you names.

Wow.

 

[happy medium]

You ask us to discuss the data.

We are.

The data from ABT is not agreeing with data from other more credible tech sites. I explained why that is the case.

Do you disagree? If so, feel free to show evidence why you think ABT's data is correct and other sites are wrong.

When you can't do that, you resort to ad hominem attacks and calling others who disagree with you AMD sponsored or shills. You think the mods are biased because they aren't infracting others who disagree with you?

Nothing I posted here deserves an infraction because each of my post is accurate and backed with evidence. I have also not resorted to calling you names.

:thumbsdown: dead thread


Mod callouts are not allowed.
Markfw900

 

[Silverforce11]

Yet we came up with a few real good answers in 2 days.
I feel the better answers were over at Hardocp but that's might be because there is less BS marketing over there.
There are a still a few truly independent posters here that also gave good answers.

Basically, Nvidia moved on to Maxwell.

What were the better answers from at [H]? The conclusion is the same from many there.

NV has moved on, they've stopped optimizing Kepler.

??

 

[tential]

What were the better answers from at [H]? The conclusion is the same from many there.

NV has moved on, they've stopped optimizing Kepler.

??

That and Nvidia architectures are not forward looking currently. Things we know, Nvidia plays it safe

 

[IllogicalGlory]

another one, another of your buddys silverforce?
mabe I should moderate my own thread?

You may have to infract yourself for the conspiracy theories and personal attacks.

I don't know why someone who once said that a 680 outperforming a 290 is normal/correct gets to complain about other people being neutral.

 

[Det0x]

the usual 10 post guy, A.K.A. someone with 2 accounts.

You know just because i haven't been active on this forum in the past, it doesn't mean i am running a duped second account. ()

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...andra-with-939&p=609239&highlight=#post609239

How far back do you wanna go ? Think i can dig up some posts from year 2000 or before on some other hw/oc forums..

 

[kawi6rr]

The money saved for using AMD was not worth the shitty experience of using crossfire 5850s and 7950s where more than half of the games I played had no support and the ones that did had issues like flickering.

With nvidia everything I play has SLI support with little to no problems even on release day.

Just browsing the latest AMD drivers notes it looks like a shopping list full of crossfire problems, dodged a bullet by not going with AMD again imo.

I got my 290 Trix OC for $250 almost 2 yrs ago and it's been flawless does everything I wanted it to do and at the same if not better speed then the 780ti. I would say it has paid off well, thanks.

 

[Goatsecks]

These forums used to be a good place to get advice and news. But now the posts/sources lack diveristy, there is far too much confirmation bias (relating to diversity) and the forum is riddled with persistent trolls/shills.

Shame you cannot delete accounts on here. I need to break the habbit of comming by here.

Admin: any chance of a perma-ban?

 

[kawi6rr]

These forums used to be a good place to get advice and news. But now the posts/sources lack diveristy, there is far too much confirmation bias (relating to diversity) and the forum is riddled with persistent trolls/shills.

Shame you cannot delete accounts on here. I need to break the habbit of comming by here.

Admin: any chance of a perma-ban?

I mentioned something along these lines a while back, was thinking the same thing.

 

[Rvenger]

It not ABT, and there is a forum there, go tell him.
Or is there just more traffic here?
In fact do a review yourself. I'm sure I can pick apart every review I see but out of respect for the hard work reviewers do for our benefit ,I don't or try not to.

I respect your posts but really its hard to debate with the overload of information, sometimes not even pertaining to any one subject.

I think its a perfect way for you to get your message across and either have people just read your posts or just say , "hey good post".
I mean I have a real job, I just don't have the time to debate you with your full time job.

Me, I'm tired of the broken record over an over.
Mabe try to make a thread , mabe that would help.
Try something other than Nvidia bashing , and cost /performance.
Think you can do that?

and before some AMD PR specialist says it, I'll say it for ya.

I LOVE READING RS INFORMATIVE< LONG, AMD sponsored post.
Is there any other answer?
Oh the Irony, beat you to it.

Infraction noted and well worth it.

I mean look at this forum vs ours , same question, same day and time.
besides the few guys from here that picked up over there , it's a good discussion.
https://hardforum.com/threads/has-n...the-gtx-780-ti-vs-the-290x-revisited.1895788/



I mean wheres the moderation? crypto currency? mining, really?!
better off locking the thread , which is what marketers want.
Anand would roll over in his desk if he saw this stuff.

I think it was you who started the issues, not the other members. This post is a great example how you shouldn't act in a forum.

Sure blame the mods.


Thread Closed.

-Rvenger