[CNET] LG's OLED yield now at 80% - increasing 2015 production dramatically

[Mondozei]

OLED was long the moonshot of the display industry. Everyone knows we all have to go there - the advantages are just too many compared to LCD - yet costs, yields and technical bottlenecks kepts us from doing so.

While Samsung keeps going for LCD improvements, incremental as they are, LG is powering ahead with OLED.

In their latest release, they managed to trim down their OLED panel to a sub-1 mm size, from almost 5 mm.

Their yield is now at respectable 80% - much higher than anyone thought would be possible for OLED in the near future - and they are ramping up production this summer. In total 1.5 million OLED panels are going to be produced, compared to 600 k in 2014 and 2016 looks even brighter than this year.

Mainstream OLED is coming faster than expected and it's only a question of time before it shows up in computer monitors.

 

[Noctifer616]

So we are looking at decent gaming OLED monitors around 2017 or 2018?

 

[crisium]

How is the input lag on OLED? LG 4K OLED is always on my mind as I wait for priced to drop, but is it a feasible tech for gaming?

 

[exar333]

How is the input lag on OLED? LG 4K OLED is always on my mind as I wait for priced to drop, but is it a feasible tech for gaming?

Looking at some recent reviews, current OLEDs seem to span from 'ok' to 'great'. Most I have seen are from the low 30s (ms) to mid 50s (ms) with top-level LCD screens in the 10s (ms).

Not great, but not terrible either. I would think we will continue to see improvements here, but I wouldn't use them for a lot of hardcore MP gaming. Anything else it would be fine for.

 

[fleshconsumed]

That is awesome news. Would be nice to have OLED TV. I would also love to have OLED monitor, however, did they ever resolve the burn in problems? OLED should work well for TVs, but in PC applications we have a lot of information that remains static on monitor like taskbar. I'd hate to have a taskbar burn in.

 

[exar333]

That is awesome news. Would be nice to have OLED TV. I would also love to have OLED monitor, however, did they ever resolve the burn in problems? OLED should work well for TVs, but in PC applications we have a lot of information that remains static on monitor like taskbar. I'd hate to have a taskbar burn in.

I honestly don't believe burn-in is much of an issue anymore. The bigger issue is the longevity of the blue sub-pixels and brightness over time. These issues aren't so bad if you paying $1000 or less (like a relatively inexpensive LCD) but more troublesome at the current prices.

No one knows for sure, but I doubt companies like LG would be pushing the tech/investing as hard as they are if they didn't believe they had ways to improve the tech over time. Other companies, like Samsung, seem to be doing a 'wait and see' approach for the time being.

 

[smithkt]

I honestly don't believe burn-in is much of an issue anymore. The bigger issue is the longevity of the blue sub-pixels and brightness over time. These issues aren't so bad if you paying $1000 or less (like a relatively inexpensive LCD) but more troublesome at the current prices.

No one knows for sure, but I doubt companies like LG would be pushing the tech/investing as hard as they are if they didn't believe they had ways to improve the tech over time. Other companies, like Samsung, seem to be doing a 'wait and see' approach for the time being.

If I am not mistaken, LG's OLED screens are actually using all white pixels with color lenses. This should eliminate the blue problem.

 

[coercitiv]

If I am not mistaken, LG's OLED screens are actually using all white pixels with color lenses. This should eliminate the blue problem.

I stumbled upon this article from Displaymate with lots of intersting info about LG's OLED.

First of all, rather than laying out a matrix of separate Red, Green, and Blue OLED sub-pixels throughout, the TV has a uniform set of WRGB sub-pixels that are made as a stack of various colors of OLEDs. This approach simplifies the OLED production, improves yields, and lowers the manufacturing cost. A set of Red, Green and Blue sub-pixel filters, which LG calls a Color Refiner, recovers the desired Red, Green and Blue OLED colors for each sub-pixel. This approach also improves Viewing Angle performance, which is outstanding. LG has also added a 4th clear sub-pixel to every pixel, which produces pure White. This increases the display’s power efficiency and also improves color accuracy and color management.

White can be produced by the other sub-pixels, but White sub-pixels provide a number of key advantages: they improve color management that allows the Color Gamut to be easily adjusted, they improve the color balance of the White Point, particularly for the crucial Color Tracking accuracy of the gray scale, and they significantly improve the power efficiency of the display because a single sub-pixel is needed to make the underlying gray component of every pixel instead of powering three Red, Green and Blue sub-pixels to do the same job.

Motion Blur is a well known issue with LCDs. It arises because the liquid crystal, which is the active element within an LCD, is unable to change its orientation and transmission rapidly enough when the picture changes from one frame to the next. OLEDs, as solid state emissive devices, have very fast Response Times: LG specs the OLED Response Time at 0.1ms, which is more than a factor of 10 faster than LCDs.

 

[RussianSensation]

Looking forward to OLED.

"The LG 55EC9300 lives up to the promise of OLED with the best picture quality of any TV we've ever reviewed." ~ CNET

Prices are coming down fast. 55" LG OLED is now $2250 on EBay. But all of these are limited to 1080P, which means it'll still be a while before OLED 4K TVs are affordable and then they probably won't have FreeSync/GSync anyway.

For living room media watching though, it could supersede LCDs/Plasma.

 

[Skurge]

It's strange that Samsung spend so much on mobile OLED displays and make them better than anyone else in the industry, LG being the opposite, bit when it comes to TVs and Monitors. It's a complete reversal. You would think Samsung would use their experience on mobile displays for their TVs and Monitors.

 

[Fox5]

Looking forward to OLED.

"The LG 55EC9300 lives up to the promise of OLED with the best picture quality of any TV we've ever reviewed." ~ CNET

Prices are coming down fast. 55" LG OLED is now $2250 on EBay. But all of these are limited to 1080P, which means it'll still be a while before OLED 4K TVs are affordable and then they probably won't have FreeSync/GSync anyway.

For living room media watching though, it could supersede LCDs/Plasma.

Still has motion blur due to persistence unfortunately. I expect in the near future we'll have OLED with black frame insertion to counteract that though.

 

[hawtdawg]

Still has motion blur due to persistence unfortunately. I expect in the near future we'll have OLED with black frame insertion to counteract that though.

Where did you hear that OLED has problems with motion blur? It's quite the opposite.

 

[x3sphere]

LG's OLEDs still have perceived motion blur due to sample and hold approach. I have the EC9300 and there is blur on fast moving objects, but it's a clean response (no ghosting/trailing artifacts) so not as bad as LCD.

The reason LG don't implement black frame insertion may be due to brightness, as that would lower it quite a bit, and OLED is already dimmer compared to your average LCD (though I find it plenty bright, not as dim as a Plasma anyway). Improvements in the tech keep making OLEDs brighter, from what I've heard the newer 4K OLEDs can get around twice as bright, so there should be more headroom to implement BFI in future models.

 

[Fox5]

I think Samsung's OLED sets already had black frame insertion, I'd imagine LG will get it eventually.

For now, I'm happy with my last gen Samsung plasma. It's one of the few plasma models that gets super bright, bright enough for good daytime viewing. It doesn't have 0 motion blur though, but it's definitely way less than an LCD.

 

[PliotronX]

Looking at some recent reviews, current OLEDs seem to span from 'ok' to 'great'. Most I have seen are from the low 30s (ms) to mid 50s (ms) with top-level LCD screens in the 10s (ms).

Not great, but not terrible either. I would think we will continue to see improvements here, but I wouldn't use them for a lot of hardcore MP gaming. Anything else it would be fine for.

Which LCD models have input lag in the teens? Some of the fastest Samsungs and Sonys still approach 30ms from what I've seen. Just asking because I am so GD frustrated with input lag in Halo. The few times I have hooked up a 360/Xbone to a monitor with negligible IL enabled headshot after headshot but then the screen is small...

 

[Fox5]

Which LCD models have input lag in the teens? Some of the fastest Samsungs and Sonys still approach 30ms from what I've seen. Just asking because I am so GD frustrated with input lag in Halo. The few times I have hooked up a 360/Xbone to a monitor with negligible IL enabled headshot after headshot but then the screen is small...

You can get a bigger monitor? I'd imagine upscaling the graphics of an Xbox takes time, so you'll never get a single frame of lag.

That said, it looks like Vizio is doing well, and historically Sony's game mode has been the lowest input lag of all. (at around 16ms)
http://www.rtings.com/info/input-lag-tvs
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag

 

[Denithor]

Glad to see OLED becoming more reasonable! Have been using an LG plasma for about five years now, will likely have to replace within the next couple, would prefer not to have to go LCD for my living room experience.

 

[amenx]

We're seeing OLEDs in TVs, mobiles, smart watches.. but why still no monitors yet?

 

[exar333]

We're seeing OLEDs in TVs, mobiles, smart watches.. but why still no monitors yet?

Only recently were some of the more critical issues 'resolved' including screen burn-in and color fading. Those are even bigger isses on computer monitors vs. TV, so I have the feeling it will probably be another 1-2 years before we start seeing many OLEDs offered as monitors. The tech still has some teething...

 

[Subyman]

I think the first place you will see them is in Apple MacBooks. They'd be the ones to push manufactures hard for the new tech. They need OLED in their MacBook line up because there isn't much on the horizon other than screen tech that would be keynote-worthy. The new MacBook is really thin. They can't keep chasing thinness advances. OLED would be a great marketing device for them for at least 2-3 years.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think its easy to say, until Apple uses it. The quality needed cant be bought for money (relatively).

OLED TVs so far have been a complete flop. And smartphones/watches degarde very fast in screen quality. And the only reason its used there is because its expected you buy a new device relatively fast before it degrade too much.

 

[poofyhairguy]

OLED TVs so far have been a complete flop.

That isn't true. So far only two TV makers have even produced OLED sets, a the LG models are considered by videophiles to be some of the best TVs ever. All of the sets are at such a high price point that they aren't mainstream in any way. Still most people who follow this stuff think that the end game is OLED, and LCD/LED is just stopgap technology inbetween the last great plasmas and affordable OLEDs.

LCD/LED black levels are nasty, I can't wait for that technology to be replaced on most devices.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That isn't true. So far only two TV makers have even produced OLED sets, a the LG models are considered by videophiles to be some of the best TVs ever. All of the sets are at such a high price point that they aren't mainstream in any way. Still most people who follow this stuff think that the end game is OLED, and LCD/LED is just stopgap technology inbetween the last great plasmas and affordable OLEDs.

LCD/LED black levels are nasty, I can't wait for that technology to be replaced on most devices.

Samsung gave up.

And what does a LG OLED TV cost? The volume itself speaks for it.

 

[monstercameron]

A bit OT but I just bought a dell tablet with a 1440p screen oled and boy does it look good! Oled is so beautiful!

 

[Skurge]

Samsung gave up.

And what does a LG OLED TV cost? The volume itself speaks for it.

Are you one of those people who also called LCDs a flop cause they cost more than CRTs?

I love the OLED on my Note 4, if I could get a decent desktop display with an OLED panel, they amount of money I would pay for it is rather large.