CNN article about effects of china-usa trade war

[Texashiker]

The article is an interesting read, but there was one thing that really stood out, at least for me anyway.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/13/new..._us_trade/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=hp_bn5

And China is instituting new "indigenous innovation" rules that U.S. companies say force them to transfer their own technology to their Chinese partners.

How long before china starts developing their own technologies, and no longer need US companies for innovation?

Lets take the i-pad for example. Apple shows company in china how to build i-pad, company takes idea, changes/improves it, starts exporting their own version, who needs apple anymore?

Rumors have been going around for a couple of years saying china is getting ready to introduce a chinese made car in the US.

Here is a story from foxnews that says GM is supposed to start selling chinese made cars in the USA

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519974,00.html

Chinese car company gets GM to introduce brandname,,,, 4 or 5 years later brandname is established, chinese company drops GM to branch out on their own.

What worries me is US companies exporting enough of their technology to china, that china is kick-started into being a world leader.

Instead of china having to work and innovate their own products, technology and ideas, US companies are handing that information over.

 

[alphatarget1]

The article is an interesting read, but there was one thing that really stood out, at least for me anyway.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/13/new..._us_trade/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=hp_bn5



How long before china starts developing their own technologies, and no longer need US companies for innovation?

Lets take the i-pad for example. Apple shows company in china how to build i-pad, company takes idea, changes/improves it, starts exporting their own version, who needs apple anymore?

Rumors have been going around for a couple of years saying china is getting ready to introduce a chinese made car in the US.

Here is a story from foxnews that says GM is supposed to start selling chinese made cars in the USA

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519974,00.html

Chinese car company gets GM to introduce brandname,,,, 4 or 5 years later brandname is established, chinese company drops GM to branch out on their own.

What worries me is US companies exporting enough of their technology to china, that china is kick-started into being a world leader.

Instead of china having to work and innovate their own products, technology and ideas, US companies are handing that information over.

You can't pay me to drive a Chinese car.

 

[brandonbull]

Looks like the price of cheap, slave labor is reasonably price for a one time payment of your technology.

 

[JTsyo]

Companies have already cut their own throats in China for a quick profit (see high speed trains). China offers access to their markets in exchange for working with their companies. The companies gain the technology and then kicks out the foreign company. Only matter of time before they start competing with their former partners in their home markets. The companies are too short sighted to look past the next quarter, serves them right.

 

[Martin]

That's been their MO for a long time now and they've had some marvelous successes with it.

Here's a great article describing in detail how they operate: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/business/global/15chinawind.html?pagewanted=all


There's not very little technology that they don't have, and that's shortly going to get transferred as well (recall GE's Jet Engines deal). The worst part about all this is that once manufacturing moves there, the whole ecosystem of suppliers moves as well, making it nearly impossible to compete. That's when you get absurd things like the entire new SF Bay Bridge being almost entirely built in China.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Anarchist420]

we're all consumers. American goods won't be any better and they'll be a helluva lot more expensive. If we start a trade war, then we'll be a lot more likely to go to war against China than if we have free trade.

 

[quest55720]

It is just to bad Bush/Obama were so weak on china. Letting them get away with all these unfair trade practices. I want someone to get tough on china even if it risks getting into a trade war. Maybe the other countries in the world would join us in calling out china on their crap. China has a hell of a lot more to loose than we do IMO.

 

[Texashiker]

American goods won't be any better and they'll be a helluva lot more expensive.

I doubt goods would be more expensive.

Go find the ratio of CEO:Worker pay in the USA, and then compare that ratio to places like japan.

The money profited by moving production overseas goes to the top brass and stockholders. If factories moved back to the USA, that money would go to the people, and less for the CEO.

 

[Dman8777]

''Mr. Calvet said the American manufacturing sector had been so weakened in recent decades that for some components there were no American machinery companies readily available''

Anyone else find statements like this really really sad?

 

[Texashiker]

''Mr. Calvet said the American manufacturing sector had been so weakened in recent decades that for some components there were no American machinery companies readily available''

Anyone else find statements like this really really sad?

Having spent 14 - 15 years in the welding field, I find it very sad.

Back around 1993 I was working in a welding shop, the customer wanted a type of stainless that was rarely made in the USA. The specs required us to use US parts when possible. The company had to call the customer and get permission to use steel made in South Africa.

Late 1990s, Fina chemical in Port Arthur Texas had to order a part from France, because there were no welding shops in the USA that could build the part. The part in question is called a "tower", its the things you see standing up in chemical plants. The tower was built in France, shipped to Port Arthur, then moved to Fina.

 

[CPA]

I doubt goods would be more expensive.

Go find the ratio of CEO:Worker pay in the USA, and then compare that ratio to places like japan.

The money profited by moving production overseas goes to the top brass and stockholders. If factories moved back to the USA, that money would go to the people, and less for the CEO.

lol, what? so many things wrong with your post.

1) you think a CEO and shareholders are going to accept less? Of course not, thus either prices are going up or other costs are going down.

2) your focus is too much on the CEO. I can guarantee you that CEO's base pay and bonus is not enough to functionally effect the price of goods. Yes, they make a lot, but when you sell hundreds of thousands or even millions of products, do you really think that a CEO make $1M plus, say a $2M bonus is going to effect price that much?

 

[Texashiker]

1) you think a CEO and shareholders are going to accept less? Of course not, thus either prices are going up or other costs are going down.

Greed, its the American way, and part of whats wrong with this country.

 

[1prophet]

You can't pay me to drive a Chinese car.

The same was said about Japanese cars too.

 

[KlokWyze]

At what point does the US government put modest tarriffs, etc in place? Any major US manufacturers that don't outsource most/everything to China?

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Greed, its the American way, and part of whats wrong with this country.

Being successful and making millions of dollars is the American dream. We all know it is possible and does happen. The lady that invented Pillow Pets is now worth $100 million dollars because of an idea and hard work. Same for the lady that invented Spanx.

That very opportunity, and the fact that it can happen to anyone, is the very reason I work so hard. It is because I want to get to that place and have a good time doing it.

It isn't greed - it is called reward. You think those CEOs just woke up one morning to someone knocking on their door asking if they want a $25/mil per year salary? Fuck no! They went to college, made sacrifices, and worked hard to get to those positions. I don't agree the companies should be bailed out and the whole golden parachute, but I completely understand why someone should get tens of millions of dollars for helming a successful company.

Fuck you. Your jealousy is what is ruining this country.

 

[halik]

You can't pay me to drive a Chinese car.

I'll take 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx5JpY9DM_k

 

[SammyJr]

Being successful and making millions of dollars is the American dream. We all know it is possible and does happen. The lady that invented Pillow Pets is now worth $100 million dollars because of an idea and hard work. Same for the lady that invented Spanx.

That very opportunity, and the fact that it can happen to anyone, is the very reason I work so hard. It is because I want to get to that place and have a good time doing it.

It isn't greed - it is called reward. You think those CEOs just woke up one morning to someone knocking on their door asking if they want a $25/mil per year salary? Fuck no! They went to college, made sacrifices, and worked hard to get to those positions. I don't agree the companies should be bailed out and the whole golden parachute, but I completely understand why someone should get tens of millions of dollars for helming a successful company.

Fuck you. Your jealousy is what is ruining this country.

How many CEOs actually built their companies? How many CEOs are rewarded for complete failure?

How can the supposed jealousy of the 99% ruin our country? We don't have any power.

 

[a777pilot]

In an actual trade war with China, they, the Chinese would be big time losers. They sell to the USA many times what we sell to them. Yes, we owe them a bit of money but if they want a trade war, let's see them collect.

A trade war is to no one's benifit......except for a few politicians, that is.

 

[Dulanic]

Being successful and making millions of dollars is the American dream. We all know it is possible and does happen. The lady that invented Pillow Pets is now worth $100 million dollars because of an idea and hard work. Same for the lady that invented Spanx.

That very opportunity, and the fact that it can happen to anyone, is the very reason I work so hard. It is because I want to get to that place and have a good time doing it.

It isn't greed - it is called reward. You think those CEOs just woke up one morning to someone knocking on their door asking if they want a $25/mil per year salary? Fuck no! They went to college, made sacrifices, and worked hard to get to those positions. I don't agree the companies should be bailed out and the whole golden parachute, but I completely understand why someone should get tens of millions of dollars for helming a successful company.

Fuck you. Your jealousy is what is ruining this country.

So no greed is involved when a CEO drives a company into the ground, gets a pay raise and starts massive lay offs because of that CEO's mistakes? Riiiggghhhhttttt.

I have 0 problems with a CEO who earns his keep. I have a MAJOR problem with a CEO getting bonuses while burning a company to the ground.

Fuck you. Your acceptance of rewarding failure is what is ruining this country.

 

[Kadarin]

So no greed is involved when a CEO drives a company into the ground, gets a pay raise and starts massive lay offs because of that CEO's mistakes? Riiiggghhhhttttt.

I have 0 problems with a CEO who earns his keep. I have a MAJOR problem with a CEO getting bonuses while burning a company to the ground.

Fuck you. Your acceptance of rewarding failure is what is ruining this country.

Yeah, Leo Apotheker comes to mind. He made a lot of money fucking up HP.

 

[Texashiker]

Being successful and making millions of dollars is the American dream. We all know it is possible and does happen. The lady that invented Pillow Pets is now worth $100 million dollars because of an idea and hard work.

$100 million? How much of that went into the US economy, and how much went into the chinese economy?

Fuck you. Your jealousy is what is ruining this country.

There is nothing wrong with making money, exploiting people to make money is where I have the issue.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

So no greed is involved when a CEO drives a company into the ground, gets a pay raise and starts massive lay offs because of that CEO's mistakes? Riiiggghhhhttttt.

I have 0 problems with a CEO who earns his keep. I have a MAJOR problem with a CEO getting bonuses while burning a company to the ground.

Fuck you. Your acceptance of rewarding failure is what is ruining this country.

Did you read my fucking post? Specifically this part?

I don't agree the companies should be bailed out and the whole golden parachute, but I completely understand why someone should get tens of millions of dollars for helming a successful company.

CEOs of private companies should never get a bail out from government and should not be rewarded for poor performance. In some cases they should be prosecuted if they knowingly, or due to incompetence, run a company into the ground and burn the shareholders.

 

[Ausm]

Did you read my fucking post? Specifically this part?



CEOs of private companies should never get a bail out from government and should not be rewarded for poor performance. In some cases they should be prosecuted if they knowingly, or due to incompetence, run a company into the ground and burn the shareholders.

Goldman Sachs comes to mind here

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

$100 million? How much of that went into the US economy, and how much went into the chinese economy?



There is nothing wrong with making money, exploiting people to make money is where I have the issue.

Define exploitation. If people are willing to work for minimum wage at a shit job I don't have a problem with someone else making money off of that. That person should have tried to become the boss instead of a peon. Maybe they should have tried harder in school, or chose differently earlier in life, whatever.

Offshoring is a different story. I'm not necessarily against it, but hate the idea of slave labor. I don't mind paying a bit more for goods made by those getting a fair (even if minimum) wage. Then again, those people need jobs too. We can't save the world, and if someone CHOOSES to work for $1/day then that is their choice. Some don't have other options, and that is shitty, but we can't all be equal, now can we?

 

[Spikesoldier]

What do you do? If you refuse to give your IP and do business in China, you get hacked for it, it gets stolen, and you get no compensation for it, and they still go build your tech.