CNN republican debate thread

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Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
81
I wish he'd drop out next even before trump.

He's been getting chummy with Trump lately. There's speculation that a Trump/Cruz ticket may be brewing.

Trump would attract votes from the disenfranchised Republicans who distrust the career politicians. Cruz would coax votes from the far right Tea Party supporters.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
I gave up watching about half way through. I thought this debate was going to be twice as good as the first, but it seems everyone was too afraid to stick their necks out over the chopping block. Even Trump was disappointing to a degree. Maybe the pre-show work-up on the networks promised too much.

Be that as it may, the same old Repub talking points that were being bandied about circa 2000-2008 are still being hammered into the airwaves as THE way to "make America great again."

Like the old broken LP record that keeps skipping back and repeating itself, the trickle down, free-the-banksters-and-wall-street-crooks to scam the nation into financial ruin (again) mantra is still alive and well at the RNC.

New faces, same ideology.

The irony is Trump doesn't support that line of thinking.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
Questioning does not mean anti

If we don't ask "Whats this shot for?" "Is this safe?" "Should this be done differently?" that doesn't make you an anti-vaccine moron

I ask those questions and make educated decisions on what is safe and what isn't. If you blindly trust Pfizer

Kind of like going to the mechanic. It's your car, you should have a say about what gets put into it. If you blindly go in and say, "Just do whatever you think is right" you would sound like a moron. Also, if you say "No, nothing you do is safe" you would also sound like a moron


Trump clearly said he wasn't anti vaccine. Carson clearly was not anti vaccine.

Saying we should spread out the vaccine schedule because of autism is based on exactly as much science as saying vaccines cause autism: zero. Trump is a dangerous moron for suggesting it.

His debate performance was hilarious though. Every time he was called out for being clueless his answer was "don't worry, I'll figure it out as I go because I'm the best". Lol.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Saying we should spread out the vaccine schedule because of autism is based on exactly as much science as saying vaccines cause autism: zero. Trump is a dangerous moron for suggesting it.

His debate performance was hilarious though. Every time he was called out for being clueless his answer was "don't worry, I'll figure it out as I go because I'm the best". Lol.
Most pediatricians are suggesting it now. Why? Because it doesn't hurt and it reduces concerns.

I do agree it is silly to think there is a correlation.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
Most pediatricians are suggesting it now. Why? Because it doesn't hurt and it reduces concerns.

I do agree it is silly to think there is a correlation.

From what I have read most pediatricians are not suggesting it, but will do it at the parents' request because the overall risk is minor. I get that.

It certainly has far less harm than never vaccinating your child, but it still opens them up to risk based on unscientific nonsense.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
Most pediatricians are suggesting it now. Why? Because it doesn't hurt and it reduces concerns.

I do agree it is silly to think there is a correlation.

Patently false. Nobody at the ACIP, AAP, PIDS, AAFP, IDSA, CDC or any other major medical community involved with vaccination would ever suggest such a thing. There is absolutely zero evidence that the number of vaccines are problematic, let alone any theoretical scientific hypothesis supporting that assertion.

Don't believe me? No problem. Here's the AAP's statement on "Too Many Shots Too Soon"
http://www2.aap.org/immunization/pediatricians/pdf/vaccine-hesitant parent_final.pdf
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
From what I have read most pediatricians are not suggesting it, but will do it at the parents' request because the overall risk is minor. I get that.

It certainly has far less harm than never vaccinating your child, but it still opens them up to risk based on unscientific nonsense.

I agree. I scoff when my wife mentions it, but I see no overall harm. Perhaps when you have kids you will face the same pressures. I have many friends that have done the same thing.

The pediatricians that have done it are all at the top of their fields. We have had 4 thus far, one was head of Yale peds, another mayo, the third a high ranking columbia pediatrician. Not saying it is statistically significant, but these aren't quacks.

It is quite sad the damage that Jenny Mccarthy and Wakefield have done to public awareness and knowledge that even learned people suspect with no grounds.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Patently false. Nobody at the ACIP, AAP, PIDS, AAFP, IDSA, CDC or any other major medical community involved with vaccination would ever suggest such a thing. There is absolutely zero evidence that the number of vaccines are problematic, let alone any theoretical scientific hypothesis supporting that assertion.

Don't believe me? No problem. Here's the AAP's statement on "Too Many Shots Too Soon"
http://www2.aap.org/immunization/pediatricians/pdf/vaccine-hesitant parent_final.pdf
I have had 3 kids all over the country. In all cases the docs spread them out. Why? Because at this point the doctors are tired of it. That's my suspicion. Just like thimerosal, they know the difference between ethyl and methyl mercury and dosage, but it's no use fighting.
 

abj13

Golden Member
Jan 27, 2005
1,071
902
136
I have had 3 kids all over the country. In all cases the docs spread them out. Why? Because at this point the doctors are tired of it. That's my suspicion. Just like thimerosal, they know the difference between ethyl and methyl mercury and dosage, but it's no use fighting.

So 3 physicians means that "Most pediatricians are suggesting it now?" No they aren't. Most doctors are tired of pseudoscience and giving into non-scientific sentiments. In fact, many see the thimerosal decision to be a major mistake to given into those sentiments, and one they would want to take back, hence why there's much greater push back against pseudoscience today.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
So 3 physicians means that "Most pediatricians are suggesting it now?" No they aren't. Most doctors are tired of pseudoscience and giving into non-scientific sentiments. In fact, many see the thimerosal decision to be a major mistake to given into those sentiments, and one they would want to take back, hence why there's much greater push back against pseudoscience today.
Perhaps I should have said "many". I know many friends who have had the same thing happen at their pediatricians.


You're also not understanding something. I personally think the notion is ridiculous. However, many parents are willing to suspend scientific knowledge to ensure their precious snowflake is "protected".

I also agree that many doctors are realizing thst bending to such foolishness is a temporary fix thst causes longer term damage.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,285
28,141
136
Nope, he's an American Citizen Born Abroad and legally eligible to run for/hold the office of President of the US of A.

He'll get way less grief then the negro born in an actual state.

I'm holding my breath waiting for the Fox News outrage questioning his citizenship.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
He'll get way less grief then the negro born in an actual state.

I'm holding my breath waiting for the Fox News outrage questioning his citizenship.

Well clearly since it didn't matter with Obama then there's no reason to question Cruz to that degree.
 

Icepick

Diamond Member
Nov 1, 2004
3,663
4
81
I gave up watching about half way through. I thought this debate was going to be twice as good as the first, but it seems everyone was too afraid to stick their necks out over the chopping block. Even Trump was disappointing to a degree. Maybe the pre-show work-up on the networks promised too much.

Be that as it may, the same old Repub talking points that were being bandied about circa 2000-2008 are still being hammered into the airwaves as THE way to "make America great again."

Like the old broken LP record that keeps skipping back and repeating itself, the trickle down, free-the-banksters-and-wall-street-crooks to scam the nation into financial ruin (again) mantra is still alive and well at the RNC.

New faces, same ideology.

You didn't miss much during the 2nd half. Trump clammed up so the entertainment factor was diminished. The rest of the debate was about
1. praising Reagan and reminiscing about how old the candidates were when Reagan was elected and who voted for him.
2. How the world was safer under G.W. and we have no security under Obama.
3. Everything wrong with the U.S. is Obama's fault.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I was half listening at this point. But did Bush really say Margaret Thatcher would be a person to put on one of our bills?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
I was half listening at this point. But did Bush really say Margaret Thatcher would be a person to put on one of our bills?

He did. I wonder what conservatives would say if Obama suggested we put a foreign leader (any foreign leader) on our money?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
He did. I wonder what conservatives would say if Obama suggested we put a foreign leader (any foreign leader) on our money?

Somebody at work brought it up and what a moron he was for saying it. I started laughing immediately at the thought he suggested a former British Prime Minister be on one of our bills.

I had to confirm it. At that point I pretty much stopped listening. What a gem for the gaffe reel.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
Somebody at work brought it up and what a moron he was for saying it. I started laughing immediately at the thought he suggested a former British Prime Minister be on one of our bills.

I had to confirm it. At that point I pretty much stopped listening. What a gem for the gaffe reel.

I feel like the only people who didn't come out of that debate looking dumb were Rubio and Kasich. Maybe Rubio has a chance to win, but it's very hard for me to see a Kasich win.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,852
34,800
136
I was half listening at this point. But did Bush really say Margaret Thatcher would be a person to put on one of our bills?

Most of the responses to that question were schmaltzy or cringe worthy. Mother Theresa…..really Kasich? Fiorina couldn't say herself so she just blabbered on about women in general.

The only time I agreed with Cruz the whole debate is when he said Hamilton should stay on the $10 and Jackson should come off the $20.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Saying we should spread out the vaccine schedule because of autism is based on exactly as much science as saying vaccines cause autism: zero. Trump is a dangerous moron for suggesting it.

His debate performance was hilarious though. Every time he was called out for being clueless his answer was "don't worry, I'll figure it out as I go because I'm the best". Lol.

Bad part about Trump is that he lives so much within his ego-sphere, that his personal anecdotes far outweigh even scientific evidence, as shown by his extreme ignorance of autism. That is a dangerous man.

Trump and Ben both deferred to "crack teams" for their policy decisions. I'm for collaborative work, but they need to, at the very least, be able to answer general debate questions.

Just to set the record straight, the reason people associate autism and vaccines is because autism typically begins to show itself during the same time period when vaccines are administered. So, a parent looking for something to blame will look to the vaccine.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
Most of the responses to that question were schmaltzy or cringe worthy. Mother Theresa…..really Kasich? Fiorina couldn't say herself so she just blabbered on about women in general.

The only time I agreed with Cruz the whole debate is when he said Hamilton should stay on the $10 and Jackson should come off the $20.

It's true! Andrew Jackson was an incredibly horrible president. Alexander Hamilton is one of the most important figures in US history. While I think the whole money debate is kind of dumb anyway if you're going to have it at least get rid of the biggest asshole we have on our currency.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,797
49,474
136
Bad part about Trump is that he lives so much within his ego-sphere, that his personal anecdotes far outweigh even scientific evidence, as shown by his extreme ignorance of autism. That is a dangerous man.

Trump and Ben both deferred to "crack teams" for their policy decisions. I'm for collaborative work, but they need to, at the very least, be able to answer general debate questions.

Just to set the record straight, the reason people associate autism and vaccines is because autism typically begins to show itself during the same time period when vaccines are administered. So, a parent looking for something to blame will look to the vaccine.

Having good advisers is probably one of the most consequential decisions someone can make, but how do you know what advisers constitute a 'crack team' if you have literally no understanding of the topic to begin with?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I feel like the only people who didn't come out of that debate looking dumb were Rubio and Kasich. Maybe Rubio has a chance to win, but it's very hard for me to see a Kasich win.

I actually like Kasich in both debates. But his stance of legalization of drugs bothers me. And think it will be hard for Republicans to nominate a guy who actually worked within Obamacare for his state.

I want to like Rubio. But his stance on drug laws and the border fence bothers the shit out of me. He is young and energetic. But damn, get away from the base rhetoric son!
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Having good advisers is probably one of the most consequential decisions someone can make, but how do you know what advisers constitute a 'crack team' if you have literally no understanding of the topic to begin with?
How do you know who is a good lawyer for any field (docs, litigation, defense, banektuocy, m and a)? What about accountants? Hr managers? Bankers?

You interview, ask around....

Do you think a person who is widely considered an utter failure as an hp ceo knows anything about it?

what about a community organizer? Or his pet, valerie?
 
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