CNN's coverage of the Utah Mall Shooting

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Tuktuk

Senior member
Jan 30, 2007
406
0
0
I was also very shocked at the woman lying dead on the floor. It is a very sad picture.. but then I think about the dead bodies I see in pictures in Iraq and how they don't affect me as much. They aren't as much sad as they are gory. Kind of makes me think if we are really about equality or if subconciously that woman has more worth to us than someone in Iraq. Maybe the excuse is we can relate to her more, but its still a reflection on our mindset that is more depressing than that woman lying on the floor.
 

EKKC

Diamond Member
May 31, 2005
5,895
0
0
all network news are the same... FOX CNN MSNBC, the american news media is in its worst ever shape IMO
 

UTmtnbiker

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2000
4,129
4
81
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,045
0
0
What did you want it to have? A big yellow smiley face?

Pussification of America continues...
 

Dolorous Dave

Senior member
Feb 23, 2004
317
0
0
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
What did you want it to have? A big yellow smiley face?

Pussification of America continues...

I had no idea that being an insensitive prick was so important to the welfare of this country.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.
 

crystal

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 1999
2,424
0
0
Originally posted by: Dolorous Dave
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
What did you want it to have? A big yellow smiley face?

Pussification of America continues...

I had no idea that being an insensitive prick was so important to the welfare of this country.

How do you know he being insensitive? That is the reality. And what is with all these out cries because you see a dead body in the news? Everyday, some bombs blow up in some markets in the middle east. The news show the people are bleeding, lies there death, bodies parts everywhere and I see no out cry.
 

UTmtnbiker

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2000
4,129
4
81
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,320
2,928
126
I'm not bothered by it one way or another. You call it being insensitive. I call it taboo. In many other countries this wouldn't have been an issue. People like to live in their own monkeysphere.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

Yeah it looked to be really good response times. Hell, if I was guaranteed an officer on scene within 2-3 minutes every time I might even consider going unarmed. Probably not, but it's possible.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,956
137
106
..bad news sells. Even more so if you have a corporate agenda to fulfill.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
the front page of the denver post yesterday had a much more graphic pic. it was of a body and cop kneeling next to it with his weapon drawn pointing down the hall. it a very close pic but the face could not be seen thank god.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Salt Lake City police arrived at Trolley Square at 6:47 p.m., and four officers formed an "Emergency Action Team," a police tactic in which officers immediately enter a situation to prevent more people from being shot. It's a change from the days before the Columbine High School tragedy, when officers would wait for more backup and set up a game plan.

:thumbsup:
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,429
0
0
Originally posted by: Aikouka
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
One of my co-workers that I work pretty closely with (I offered him a position within one of my departments) was there when the shootings happened. He was there with this wife and child. Luckily, nothing happened to them as they hid when the shooting started and then when the prick stopped to reload, he grabbed his wife and child and ran out of the building.

Obviously, he's not in to work this morning.

I'm glad he's okay. You always wonder what you'd do in those situations, but hope you're never in them.

Thankfully I live in TX so I would pull out my concealed carry weapon and shoot the bastard like that off-duty cop did. So this guy killed 5 people in 3 minutes? damn, makes you wonder what would have happened if the off duty wasn't there and the response time of the cops wasn't so good.

edit: I bet malls will be rethinking their "security" now. All I ever see in a mall is the flashlight carrying security guards. I would be willing to bet most malls get at least 1 real cop patrolling from now on.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.

Oh, and btw, turns out the officer was probably the only person armed because the mall prohibits guns on their property. Of course, as is always the case, efforts to control guns only result in restriciting law abiding citizens, not criminals.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.

Oh, and btw, turns out the officer was probably the only person armed because the mall prohibits guns on their property. Of course, as is always the case, efforts to control guns only result in restriciting law abiding citizens, not criminals.

In which case if I lived in Utah and had been in the mall that day I would sue the sh1t out of the mall for failing to protect me and not allowing me to protect myself.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: Specop 007
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.

Oh, and btw, turns out the officer was probably the only person armed because the mall prohibits guns on their property. Of course, as is always the case, efforts to control guns only result in restriciting law abiding citizens, not criminals.

In which case if I lived in Utah and had been in the mall that day I would sue the sh1t out of the mall for failing to protect me and not allowing me to protect myself.

100% CORRECT response. That is EXACTLY what we need. Once businesses (and soon after everywhere else) realize that their options are to offer total protection or allow us to protect ourselves we'll see a significant (if not total) drop in restrictions on lawful carry.
 

kami333

Diamond Member
Dec 12, 2001
5,110
2
76
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.

Oh, and btw, turns out the officer was probably the only person armed because the mall prohibits guns on their property. Of course, as is always the case, efforts to control guns only result in restriciting law abiding citizens, not criminals.

Link?

I'm pretty sure Trolley Square doesn't.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: kami333
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
Horrific experiences from the news reports coming out. However, this is some good media coverage from the local station here in Salt Lake about the off duty Ogden police officer who was there for a Valentine's dinner and engaged the shooter:

Cop Says He's Not a Hero

:thumbsup:

Lucky for the civies that he happened to be there. Reason #923756236874293846253 to carry 24/7...you just never know when and where you'll need it, and there won't always be an officer close by luck.

Utah happens to have one of the most permissive concealed carry laws in the country. I don't want to get in to a debate of gun control/violence/etc. Suffice it to say, I don't think any armed people would've done much good as the reports are showing that this officer engaged him within 3 minutes of the first shooting, and 3 Salt Lake officers arrived on scene within 6 minutes of the first calls of shots fired.

I think this showed that an armed person did do a lot of good. This off-duty officer denied the gunman 3 minutes to walk around and freely shoot at innocent people uncontested. Nobody else was shot after the off-duty officer engaged the gunman.

Oh, and btw, turns out the officer was probably the only person armed because the mall prohibits guns on their property. Of course, as is always the case, efforts to control guns only result in restriciting law abiding citizens, not criminals.

Link?

I'm pretty sure Trolley Square doesn't.

Read down to fourth paragraph.
 

UTmtnbiker

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2000
4,129
4
81
*SIGH* How quickly this has turned in to a gun control debate. I should state that I'm neither pro or anti-gun. I am a gun owner (Glock 23 and Ruger .45ACP) but I don't consider a CC permit the answer to all of our violence problems nor do I consider an outright ban the answer either. People are too polarized one way or the other on this issue and refuse to listen to the other point of view, which I believe is the first step towards civilized dialog and maybe actually trying to answer the problems rather than try to "win".

To answer some of the issues brought up in the thread since my last post:

1. What I meant was IMHO no civvie was going to make a difference with a concealed weapon in that short amount of time, and more than likely would've been capped himself as the offduty police officer a) had his wife call 911 an describe to him SLC PD that he was an off duty armed cop and b) even under that situation, it appears that SLC PD initially thought he was a second gunman. Some guy waving a gun around not yelling "Off duty Ogden Police, get down, get down, get down" more than likely would've had his ass handed to him by SWAT.

2. I consider an off duty police officer to be much more capable of handling his firearm than the guy who paid his $70 to get his CC permit, spend 4 hours in a class, show he knows how to handle a firearm, go through a background check and that's it. No offense to those of you who carry, but in Utah, unless you're a felon, you get a permit, no matter how competent (or lack there of) you are. It doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that the lowest common denominator of carrying a gun is NOT being a felon.

3. The cop had position, from the 2nd floor shooting down to the first floor, with very little chance of a bystander being hit. I would loathe to be that person with a CC permit, draw my weapon, shoot and have it hit some lady hiding in a store. If it was a 1 on 1 duel, yeah, no problem, but I don't know if I could live with myself if the above scenario happened.

4. Utah law allows private property owners (regardless of public access or not) to restrict firearms. I find it funny that those of us who have very libertarian or conservative political views get all bent out of shape when the gov't says we can't develop on land because of some endangered species and that's gov't interference, but when they give us the right on how we determine our property is used, if the property owner does something we disagree with, it's SUE! This IS PRIVATE PROPERTY, regardless of what type of public access there may be. As long as the owners don't discriminate against one of the local or federal protected classes, I'm pretty much of the opinion they can do whatever they want. If people don't like it, don't shop there. Now, the law is different for public or gov't buildings. They can't restrict based on firearms, so if this happened in a county building and they banned firearms, that's different in my book.

All that being said, let's not lose focus here that 5 people who woke up Monday morning never got to see Tuesday. The biographies on these people make this incredibly sad. Most were out on dates, buying Valentines, or having dinner with their families. Regardless of ones' stance on firearms, we can talk about what we would've done till the cows come home, but unless we're faced with that situation, that's all it is, talk. To be honest, I don't know what I would've done, but like my coworker, my first concern would've been for my family and to get them to safety. After that, it's all speculation and bravado.
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
1,942
0
0
Originally posted by: UTmtnbiker
*SIGH* How quickly this has turned in to a gun control debate. I should state that I'm neither pro or anti-gun. I am a gun owner (Glock 23 and Ruger .45ACP) but I don't consider a CC permit the answer to all of our violence problems nor do I consider an outright ban the answer either. People are too polarized one way or the other on this issue and refuse to listen to the other point of view, which I believe is the first step towards civilized dialog and maybe actually trying to answer the problems rather than try to "win".

To answer some of the issues brought up in the thread since my last post:

1. What I meant was IMHO no civvie was going to make a difference with a concealed weapon in that short amount of time, and more than likely would've been capped himself as the offduty police officer a) had his wife call 911 an describe to him SLC PD that he was an off duty armed cop and b) even under that situation, it appears that SLC PD initially thought he was a second gunman. Some guy waving a gun around not yelling "Off duty Ogden Police, get down, get down, get down" more than likely would've had his ass handed to him by SWAT.

2. I consider an off duty police officer to be much more capable of handling his firearm than the guy who paid his $70 to get his CC permit, spend 4 hours in a class, show he knows how to handle a firearm, go through a background check and that's it. No offense to those of you who carry, but in Utah, unless you're a felon, you get a permit, no matter how competent (or lack there of) you are. It doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that the lowest common denominator of carrying a gun is NOT being a felon.

3. The cop had position, from the 2nd floor shooting down to the first floor, with very little chance of a bystander being hit. I would loathe to be that person with a CC permit, draw my weapon, shoot and have it hit some lady hiding in a store. If it was a 1 on 1 duel, yeah, no problem, but I don't know if I could live with myself if the above scenario happened.

4. Utah law allows private property owners (regardless of public access or not) to restrict firearms. I find it funny that those of us who have very libertarian or conservative political views get all bent out of shape when the gov't says we can't develop on land because of some endangered species and that's gov't interference, but when they give us the right on how we determine our property is used, if the property owner does something we disagree with, it's SUE! This IS PRIVATE PROPERTY, regardless of what type of public access there may be. As long as the owners don't discriminate against one of the local or federal protected classes, I'm pretty much of the opinion they can do whatever they want. If people don't like it, don't shop there. Now, the law is different for public or gov't buildings. They can't restrict based on firearms, so if this happened in a county building and they banned firearms, that's different in my book.

All that being said, let's not lose focus here that 5 people who woke up Monday morning never got to see Tuesday. The biographies on these people make this incredibly sad. Most were out on dates, buying Valentines, or having dinner with their families. Regardless of ones' stance on firearms, we can talk about what we would've done till the cows come home, but unless we're faced with that situation, that's all it is, talk. To be honest, I don't know what I would've done, but like my coworker, my first concern would've been for my family and to get them to safety. After that, it's all speculation and bravado.

Very well put and infinitely better than the posters who can only see black or white on issues that are definitely gray. ::Applaud::
 
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