Coffeelake thread, benchmarks, reviews, input, everything.

[IRobot23]

Argh why why why

Because of SMT. Well since CPU has already 6 cores it wont boost you much, it does help with smoother frametimes. Sometimes you can see 8C/16T peak up to 60-70 even more in gaming.
But this is not the reason, the reason is AM4. Thats why would I pick R5 1600, its simple no we have 14nm, next year 12nm after is 7nm (3 nodes on same platform - if needed you can upgrade, APU or CPU). AM4 offers plenty of choices for future and if you are building gaming (work, anything else) system now you can get R5 1600, AM4 and 3200MHz DDR4 simply.

 

[LTC8K6]

Because of SMT. Well since CPU has already 6 cores it wont boost you much, it does help with smoother frametimes. Sometimes you can see 8C/16T peak up to 60-70 even more in gaming.
But this is not the reason, the reason is AM4. Thats why would I pick R5 1600, its simple no we have 14nm, next year 12nm after is 7nm (3 nodes on same platform - if needed you can upgrade, APU or CPU). AM4 offers plenty of choices for future and if you are building gaming (work, anything else) system now you can get R5 1600, AM4 and 3200MHz DDR4 simply.

Why, why, why are you bringing up Ryzen in this thread...?

I think that's what was meant.

 

[raghu78]

That 8700K is so fast it just makes everything else look like outdated garbage, lol. Straight up truth and no denying it. If 8 similar (or even better) cores come next year then its just game over. GAME OVER. Its just too damn fast is what the problem is. Its going to kill and obsolete everything on the entire market besides the super high core parts, like 10 or 12+. 6/12 at 5ghz and rumors of 8/16 with similar or better cores...yeah, goooood NIGHT! Those clocks can't be touched.

Yes. The 8700k renders a lot of CPUs irrelevant - 7700k, 7740x,7800x and to some extent 7820x too. On AMD side the R7 series is made irrelevant. The main reason to buy Ryzen now would be the longevity of AM4 platform as you should be able to drop a 7nm Zen 2 in the same board and get it working with just a BIOS update.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[realibrad]

Why, why, why are you bringing up Ryzen in this thread...?

I think that's what was meant.

Because, the topic that lead to the comment was about an 8400 for gaming and how it compares. Seeing as the 8400 does not exist in a vacuum Ryzen was brought up as a competitor to the new Coffeelake chips. Are we not supposed to judge Coffeelake against the other offerings? It would seem silly to only judge CL against CL.

 

[raghu78]

Because, the topic that lead to the comment was about an 8400 for gaming and how it compares. Seeing as the 8400 does not exist in a vacuum Ryzen was brought up as a competitor to the new Coffeelake chips. Are we not supposed to judge Coffeelake against the other offerings? It would seem silly to only judge CL against CL.

As much as I agree to a part of your argument the problem lies in the way people are attached emotionally to their favourite brands and can rarely make objective arguments without bias. The discussions when comparing competitive products often lead to heated arguments, personal attacks, brand cheerleading and thread goes off topic and degenerates quickly. As much as I support AMD I have no problems in accepting CFL is the superior product and Intel is firmly back in the lead. It will require something really special from AMD to turn the tables back in their favour. I think CFL 8700k will be unchallenged for ST for a long time with extremely competitive MT. a 8C/16T CFL mainstream CPU will be simply unbeatable at same core counts and most likely price till Icelake and Zen 2 arrive in 2019.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Interesting that 7400->8400 appears to be a more compelling upgrade than 7700K->8700K.

 

[Markfw]

Is there any reason not to run at high temps? As far as I know heat damage below tjunc isn't really an issue.

Anecdotal evidence but back in the day with limited money I ran seti@home on a cheapo prebuilt for years, at 90°C. Later gave that one to my parents and it ran for another couple years until the gpu crapped out (and I figured out the mainboard had a defect and you could only run pcie 1.0 cards which weren't available anymore).

I am pretty sure that even that one was throttling at 90c, and it will decrease the life of the chip at those temps.

 

[beginner99]

But you can't have a CPU at a fixed frequency consuming the same power at 50 or 100 degrees.
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...-power-consumption-with-the-i7-2600k.2200205/

common. You know exactly what I mean. forget power use. What's bad about a hot running CPU?

And if it is bad because of higher energy use, then it doesn't really have anything to do with temps.

 

[epsilon84]

Because, the topic that lead to the comment was about an 8400 for gaming and how it compares. Seeing as the 8400 does not exist in a vacuum Ryzen was brought up as a competitor to the new Coffeelake chips. Are we not supposed to judge Coffeelake against the other offerings? It would seem silly to only judge CL against CL.

Except that he keeps pushing his idea that the Ryzen 1600 is the 'better' gaming CPU because it has SMT. It's not. In a Coffee Lake thread no less. Judge Coffee Lake all you want, but don't make bogus claims that Ryzen is the better gaming CPU when it clearly isn't: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i5_8400/18.html

Truth of the matter is, once you're at 6 cores, SMT/HT makes almost no impact on gaming. You can throw all the threads you want at games, but they simply don't scale like fully parallel software.

 

[Arachnotronic]

a 8C/16T CFL mainstream CPU will be simply unbeatable at same core counts and most likely price till Icelake and Zen 2 arrive in 2019.

The trick Intel will need to pull off is to get 8 cores into the die on 14nm++ while not regressing in frequency. It can be done (we saw it with Kaby Lake Refresh), but it'll definitely require some good engineering to get there.

 

[elhefegaming]

The trick Intel will need to pull off is to get 8 cores into the die on 14nm++ while not regressing in frequency. It can be done (we saw it with Kaby Lake Refresh), but it'll definitely require some good engineering to get there.

Given the reported temperatures we're seeing, I only see that happening if they use LM.

 

[Bouowmx]

I don't see 8-core frequency too big of a hurdle. 4.3-4.7 GHz, give it "112 W" TDP so that the press won't be circle-jerking, and I'll be good.

 

[epsilon84]

The trick Intel will need to pull off is to get 8 cores into the die on 14nm++ while not regressing in frequency. It can be done (we saw it with Kaby Lake Refresh), but it'll definitely require some good engineering to get there.

Agreed. Essentially they will need to pull off an even more tuned version of the 8700 (non K). If 6 cores @ 4.3GHz is possible under a 65W TDP on the 8700, then I don't see why an 8 core version at say, ~95W TDP wouldn't be possible.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Given the reported temperatures we're seeing, I only see that happening if they use LM.

If Intel wants to be sure of getting a lot of enthusiasts' dollars next year, they should use solder exclusively on the K series parts. For the rest of its products it can continue to use TIM, since it's more than adequate for the bulk of them.

 

[tamz_msc]

common. You know exactly what I mean. forget power use. What's bad about a hot running CPU?

And if it is bad because of higher energy use, then it doesn't really have anything to do with temps.

Increased power consumption means some part of that extra power will be converted into heat. It's the same thing as with GPUs.

 

[raghu78]

The trick Intel will need to pull off is to get 8 cores into the die on 14nm++ while not regressing in frequency. It can be done (we saw it with Kaby Lake Refresh), but it'll definitely require some good engineering to get there.

A slight regression to 4.0-4.1 Ghz all core turbo for 8C/16T won't matter a lot. 8700k will be the fastest 8 core. It will trade blows with 7820x in MT while being significantly faster in ST and gaming and will be faster than the Pinnacle Ridge 2800x for both ST and MT. The Cascade Lake 8 core might pull ahead for MT but will still trail for ST.

 

[Arachnotronic]

A slight regression to 4.0-4.1 Ghz all core turbo for 8C/16T won't matter a lot. 8700k will be the fastest 8 core. It will trade blows with 7820x in MT while being significantly faster in ST and gaming and will be faster than the Pinnacle Ridge 2800x for both ST and MT. The Cascade Lake 8 core might pull ahead for MT but will still trail for ST.

What Intel would need to do is make sure that single core turbo is >= 4.7GHz so that people with beefy cooling are "guaranteed" all-core 4.7GHz on 8 cores. I don't think people like making the "more cores" or "high per core performance" trade off (though I could be wrong about what "people" in general want).

This will be possible, but Intel really has to do something about the terrible TIM they've got on all its parts. It really took the wind out of Skylake X's sails (the silicon has good frequency potential, but good luck cooling it at high frequencies; it's tough), and it could mask the true potential of the 8 core CFL part.

 

[tamz_msc]

Truth of the matter is, once you're at 6 cores, SMT/HT makes almost no impact on gaming.

Funny you should say that, exactly when I was looking at this:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Coffe...8700K-i5-8600K-i5-8400-Test-Review-1240339/2/
Witcher 3 frame times:

Spoiler: 8600K

Spoiler: 8700K

RoTR DX12:

Spoiler: 8600K

Spoiler: 8700K

HT seems to make a difference even with 6 cores, or so it seems.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Funny you should say that, exactly when I was looking at this:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Coffe...8700K-i5-8600K-i5-8400-Test-Review-1240339/2/
Witcher 3 frame times:

Spoiler: 8600K

Spoiler: 8700K

RoTR DX12:

Spoiler: 8600K

Spoiler: 8700K

HT seems to make a difference even with 6 cores, or so it seems.

It's good to see games making use of more threads. Pushing per-core performance is going to remain tough, while adding more cores is nearly trivial at this point.

 

[PeterScott]

If Intel wants to be sure of getting a lot of enthusiasts' dollars next year, they should use solder exclusively on the K series parts. For the rest of its products it can continue to use TIM, since it's more than adequate for the bulk of them.

That's more of a "would be nice", than a necessity. Coffee Lake is the top CPU as is. It can OC to 4.8 GHz on all cores with ease, and good cooling will get 5GHz+ for most.

The biggest issues enthusiasts are going to have for months to come, is getting their hands on the unlocked Coffee Lake parts because the demand is going to be the highest we have seen in many years, because this is one of the biggest jumps at the mainstream top end in the last decade.

 

[slashy16]

These chips are legit. Finally a mainstream MT chip without having to deal with 2010 ST level Ryzen IPC. I have the 8600K on order along with the 8700K. The 8600K should be here next week and the 8700k has a 3 week delay. The 8600K will replace my 3770 gaming rig and the 8700K will replace my 990x Home vSphere Dev Rig. I still need to pick motherboards for these processors. I'm still waiting for a couple more i9 7940x reviews and I will most likely be replacing my vSphere Development Dual Xeon X5660 workstation at work. So many treats right in time for Christmas!

 

[elhefegaming]

That's more of a "would be nice", than a necessity. Coffee Lake is the top CPU as is. It can OC to 4.8 GHz on all cores with ease, and good cooling will get 5GHz+ for most.

The biggest issues enthusiasts are going to have for months to come, is getting their hands on the unlocked Coffee Lake parts because the demand is going to be the highest we have seen in many years, because this is one of the biggest jumps at the top end in the last decade.

I wouldn't call it "with ease" running at 86 with a Kraken.... that's not a temp you want your cpu to be used on a daily basis.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I wouldn't call it "with ease" running at 86 with a Kraken.... that's not a temp you want your cpu to be used on a daily basis.

Nobody runs Prime95 daily...except maybe those number theorists looking for new prime numbers

 

[PeterScott]

Nobody runs Prime95 daily...except maybe those number theorists looking for new prime numbers

Exactly. Even they don't. Anyone looking for Primes almost certainly has much more specific SW.

Prime95 exists to cook CPUs and little else.

I would rather see functional workloads, like running Handbrake. That is something I would actually do.

 

[slashy16]

What Intel would need to do is make sure that single core turbo is >= 4.7GHz so that people with beefy cooling are "guaranteed" all-core 4.7GHz on 8 cores. I don't think people like making the "more cores" or "high per core performance" trade off (though I could be wrong about what "people" in general want).

This will be possible, but Intel really has to do something about the terrible TIM they've got on all its parts. It really took the wind out of Skylake X's sails (the silicon has good frequency potential, but good luck cooling it at high frequencies; it's tough), and it could mask the true potential of the 8 core CFL part.

The TIM isn't that big of a deal. If you are into overclocking and tweaking and buy the K series you should be delidding the CPU anyway. I helped build three 7700k machines in the past 4 months and two of those were delidded. There was no difference in how far we could overclock and the temps between machines were with 5-8c. The only big difference I saw was when running prime 10-12c difference but, you don't buy a 7700k to run prime lol.