Cold Air Intakes

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Yeah, th 2.4 i4 produces a LOL-worthy 140hp.

You are an idiot on so many levels.

#1 cylinders don't dictate power directly. However, more cylinders makes for a smoother running engine.

#2 that 140HP will make some cars scream and others be pigs.

#3 a cold air intake's ability depends greatly on the vehicle it will go on and what type it is.

Smoothness has more to do with the balance of the engine than the number of cylinders(zero sum balancing all net movement leaving only the rotational output of the crank). The straight 6 and the 90 degree V8 are the only two engine designs that can be naturally balance with careful crankshaft design. Everything else typically requires counter weights and balance shafts to run smoothly.

As for horsepower, 140HP isn't much except for in a bike. Even my 2,800 lb Camry is dog slow with 130 HP, 17 seconds at best, even revving the ****** out of it. What's that 130 HP going to do in a 2,200 lb Civic, 16s at best? Thats still slow as hell any way you look at it. A reasonably fast car to me as at least 13s, though I'm more impressed by 9 and 10 second street cars.

In my Camry I pop the clutch at 5g and the car lugs and wants to stall the engine and cause drive train oscillation (ie: jerky bouncy takeoff that doesn't die down until you take your foot off the gas for a few seconds) because the inertia of the car is far too great for that weak little engine to compensate for.

I do the same in my Cobra and the wheels light up, you get pushed back in your seat, and that 3700lb pig of a car wants to MOVE; the engine clearly over powers the car and has no sign of yielding to inertia. Granted there is a 650 horsepower difference, the Cobra is still 1000 lbs heavier.

140HP isn't really that much, granted the weak ass 2v 260 HP V8 isn't much in those pig SN95s either, or the LS2 340 HP in the 4,100 lb Chargers, etc. doens't do it for me either. When did cars begin to be such pigs?

I think the Camry's problem is that it's a Camry - they're designed from the factory to be boring. A clutch dump at five grand on my Civic would just garner wheelspin. Nothing compared to the smokescreen a Cobra makes, and it's coming from the wrong wheels, but at least the little guy's willing to try.

Edit - Cars became fat pigs around the time the drivers did.

- M4H

 

[Aikouka]

If I recall, the stock talon (TSI AWD) can do a quarter in 13-14 seconds. I don't remember the usual time, but I believe I recall it being around there. It's been a long time since I've been to DSMTuners.

EDIT:

The O2 only works in closed loop mode at idle for emissions at stop lights, parking, etc. It's completely ignored in open loop mode under WOT conditions.

Exdeath, what was this part in comment to?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
If I recall, the stock talon (TSI AWD) can do a quarter in 13-14 seconds. I don't remember the usual time, but I believe I recall it being around there. It's been a long time since I've been to DSMTuners.

EDIT:

The O2 only works in closed loop mode at idle for emissions at stop lights, parking, etc. It's completely ignored in open loop mode under WOT conditions.

Exdeath, what was this part in comment to?

stock? i doubt it, maybe high 14s, low 15s. It only had 200 hp or so.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
If I recall, the stock talon (TSI AWD) can do a quarter in 13-14 seconds. I don't remember the usual time, but I believe I recall it being around there. It's been a long time since I've been to DSMTuners.

Downhill with a tailwind maybe.

Mid to high 14's is about right for a stock AWD DSM IIRC. If you crank the boost and throw some slicks on, you might be able to make one pass in the 13s before your crank takes a walk.

- M4H

 

[Vic]

I had a '92 DSM back in the day. They run high-14's stock. And reports of their walking cranks are greatly overexaggerated. They had a lot more reliability issues than just that than one would probably have to deal with (like mine liked to blow turbos).

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Vic
I had a '92 DSM back in the day. They run high-14's stock. And reports of their walking cranks are greatly overexaggerated. They had a lot more reliability issues than just that than one would probably have to deal with (like mine liked to blow turbos).

Yeah, but it's an easy way to harass a DSM fanboy.

It's those issues that make me stay away from them, as I need something that will reliably get me to work every day. When I've got the scratch for a "weekend" car I might look into it, but definitely not as a primary ride.

- M4H

 

[LS20]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire


Text

- M4H

yuck, sorry you eat that cr8p. i get the fragrant Jasmine kind in bulk-bags from the chinese stores.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: LS20

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire


Text

- M4H

yuck, sorry you eat that cr8p. i get the fragrant Jasmine kind in bulk-bags from the chinese stores.

I'm afraid I don't know anywhere near as much about rice as you do

- M4H

 

[OS]

oh i just remembered, there is an air filter that gives you up to 75 HP

see here

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: OS
oh i just remembered, there is an air filter that gives you up to 75 HP

see here

ohsnap.gif

- M4H

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Vic
I had a '92 DSM back in the day. They run high-14's stock. And reports of their walking cranks are greatly overexaggerated. They had a lot more reliability issues than just that than one would probably have to deal with (like mine liked to blow turbos).

Ahh okay, I must've got the high 13's->14's confused with high 14's . It's been a long time since I've looked at DSM forums and such since I haven't worked with it in awhile and there's so much floating in my mind, I'm surprised I can even remember my name (I sure as hell forget everyone else's name hehe)!

Oh and M4H, the cars really aren't that bad. Also, the 7-bolts were notorious for walking, not the 6-bolt that my car has (although there are still reports of 'em walking!) I found my biggest car issue (that was standard on the car and not just local to mine) was the oil cooler leak problem.

I still wonder if the glazed clutch was my fault (I never checked the rear differential... I kept telling myself to, but just like names... I tend to forget easily). Couldn't the friction from the rear differential have traveled through the driveshaft to the transfer case, into the transmission and finally met up with the clutch. Other than that, I can't think of a decent reason why my clutch would've glazed over after about 300 miles (the clutch has plenty of life left). Unless the transmission was also ruined by the original owner and it showed no signs of physical damage nor any issues shifting.

Who knows .

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: OS
oh i just remembered, there is an air filter that gives you up to 75 HP

see here

Lol see their biggest one with that crazy 776 cfm all big and bold?

Yeah my throttle body flows 1700 cfm kthxbye ric3r. Lol

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Yeah, th 2.4 i4 produces a LOL-worthy 140hp.

You are an idiot on so many levels.

#1 cylinders don't dictate power directly. However, more cylinders makes for a smoother running engine.

#2 that 140HP will make some cars scream and others be pigs.

#3 a cold air intake's ability depends greatly on the vehicle it will go on and what type it is.

Smoothness has more to do with the balance of the engine than the number of cylinders(zero sum balancing all net movement leaving only the rotational output of the crank). The straight 6 and the 90 degree V8 are the only two engine designs that can be naturally balance with careful crankshaft design. Everything else typically requires counter weights and balance shafts to run smoothly.

As for horsepower, 140HP isn't much except for in a bike. Even my 2,800 lb Camry is dog slow with 130 HP, 17 seconds at best, even revving the ****** out of it. What's that 130 HP going to do in a 2,200 lb Civic, 16s at best? Thats still slow as hell any way you look at it. A reasonably fast car to me as at least 13s, though I'm more impressed by 9 and 10 second street cars.

In my Camry I pop the clutch at 5g and the car lugs and wants to stall the engine and cause drive train oscillation (ie: jerky bouncy takeoff that doesn't die down until you take your foot off the gas for a few seconds) because the inertia of the car is far too great for that weak little engine to compensate for.

I do the same in my Cobra and the wheels light up, you get pushed back in your seat, and that 3700lb pig of a car wants to MOVE; the engine clearly over powers the car and has no sign of yielding to inertia. Granted there is a 650 horsepower difference, the Cobra is still 1000 lbs heavier.

140HP isn't really that much, granted the weak ass 2v 260 HP V8 isn't much in those pig SN95s either, or the LS2 340 HP in the 4,100 lb Chargers, etc. doens't do it for me either. When did cars begin to be such pigs?

I think the Camry's problem is that it's a Camry - they're designed from the factory to be boring. A clutch dump at five grand on my Civic would just garner wheelspin. Nothing compared to the smokescreen a Cobra makes, and it's coming from the wrong wheels, but at least the little guy's willing to try.

Edit - Cars became fat pigs around the time the drivers did.

- M4H

When I decide to stop spending money on the Cobra I wanna dump a 3SGTE in the Camry, everything pretty much mounts to the same place as the 5SFE, except the upper dog bone, since the 3S is a true DOHC design with dual sprockets and a wider head.

gen 3 3SGTE from a Caldina 260HP baseline w/ ECU ~$1500 (or since I'd plan on a rebuild with head work and a new turbo, a gen 2 for $600 since extensive rebuilding negates the gen 3 advantages which only apply in stock form)

E153 Solara V6 manual transmission $500

front mount intercooler, axles and flywheel/clutch combo that will mate the two, etc. crank the boost up a little for 300 WHP on a stock long block ^_^ would be fun for a Camry.

Eventually a 2.2L stroker and complete rebuild, head work, aftermarket programmable ECU, the works, and hit 500 HP :evil:

Right now I just lack the motivation, as anything I do to that FWD car with no suspension aftermarket parts being made... the money is better off on the Cobra. I'd probably have to get custom axles cut from billet, custom CV's etc, as they don't exactly make high performance driveline stuff for Camrys.

But tell me it wouldn't be funny though making a smoke screen with a otherwise stock Camry with 500 HP ^_^


This is what I would go for:

http://atsracing.com/scott91mr2.htm

It's a MR2 but I'd do the same engine work on the Camry. It doesn't peak out as much as others, but look at the bottom end, and remember its only a 2.2L; 400 ft/lbs @ 3500 RPM :Q

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Smoothness has more to do with the balance of the engine than the number of cylinders(zero sum balancing all net movement leaving only the rotational output of the crank). The straight 6 and the 90 degree V8 are the only two engine designs that can be naturally balanced with careful crankshaft design. Everything else typically requires counter weights and balance shafts to run smoothly.

As for horsepower, 140HP isn't much except for in a bike. Even my 2,800 lb Camry is dog slow with 130 HP, 17 seconds at best, even revving the ****** out of it. What's that 130 HP going to do in a 2,200 lb Civic, 16s at best? Thats still slow as hell any way you look at it. A reasonably fast car to me (ie: definitively faster than a run of the mill family sedan) is at *least* 13s, though I'm more impressed by 9 and 10 second street cars.

In my Camry I pop the clutch at 5g and the car lugs and wants to stall the engine and cause drive train oscillation (ie: jerky bouncy takeoff that doesn't die down until you take your foot off the gas for a few seconds) because the inertia of the car is far too great for that weak little engine to compensate for, and thats even with a heavy steel flywheel as far as I know.

I do the same in my Cobra and the wheels light up, you get pushed back in your seat, and that 3,700lb pig of a car wants to MOVE NOW; the engine clearly over powers the car and has no sign of yielding to inertia. Granted there is a 650 horsepower difference, the Cobra is still 1,000 lbs heavier.

So 140HP isn't really that much, granted the weak ass 2v 260 HP 4.6 V8 isn't much in those pig SN95s either; the LS2 340 HP in the 4,100 lb Chargers, etc. doens't do it for me either. Don't even get me started about 6,000 lb trucks with "a powerful 400 HP V8" When did cars begin to be such pigs?

I don't know where you got your info....a V12 is a great engine design.

haven't heard of many balance shafts beyond 6 cylinders though either.

never heard of a 90deg V8 being a well naturally balanced engine either....you are being too pro-cobra and not seeing the real-world.

2200 lbs is not a light car with you mentioning the civic. My 92 Acura GSR had like 160hp and turned a 14.x 1/4 mile though, 0-60 was a little below 6 secs.

You seem to have gearing confused with HP as well.

SN95 mustangs had a lot of problems in the beginning.

 

[theslickvik]

sorry to burst your bubble but SRI and CAI dont give really any hp gains. All your getting is really the sound and some torque. If you want HP gains go for a supercharger or a turbo kit. The factory intake is too bulky and the point of the air intake is to feed oxygen with the fuel. Aftermarket intakes use better insulated pipes and racing quality pipes (To name a few brands AEM, Cosmo, Fujita...)

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Yeah, th 2.4 i4 produces a LOL-worthy 140hp.

You are an idiot on so many levels.

#1 cylinders don't dictate power directly. However, more cylinders makes for a smoother running engine.

#2 that 140HP will make some cars scream and others be pigs.

#3 a cold air intake's ability depends greatly on the vehicle it will go on and what type it is.

#1 Where did I say that?

#2 Shut up, shut up, shut up. 140hp in modern cars is fvck-all*pi. Which is fvck all.

#3 A CAI on a 140hp car may produce 1, maybe 2hp. By the time that gets from the flywheel to the road, combined with your terrible driving, I assure you it will make no bloody difference except to make more noise.

#4 Trust me, you're the idiot. On ALL levels.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: theslickvik
sorry to burst your bubble but SRI and CAI dont give really any hp gains. All your getting is really the sound and some torque. If you want HP gains go for a supercharger or a turbo kit. The factory intake is too bulky and the point of the air intake is to feed oxygen with the fuel. Aftermarket intakes use better insulated pipes and racing quality pipes (To name a few brands AEM, Cosmo, Fujita...)

You do realize HP is based on torque right?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
#1 Where did I say that?

#2 Shut up, shut up, shut up. 140hp in modern cars is fvck-all*pi. Which is fvck all.

#3 A CAI on a 140hp car may produce 1, maybe 2hp. By the time that gets from the flywheel to the road, combined with your terrible driving, I assure you it will make no bloody difference except to make more noise.

#4 Trust me, you're the idiot. On ALL levels.

you seem to be an angry little man. Not everyone does things to their cars for ultimate power.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: exdeath

Smoothness has more to do with the balance of the engine than the number of cylinders(zero sum balancing all net movement leaving only the rotational output of the crank). The straight 6 and the 90 degree V8 are the only two engine designs that can be naturally balanced with careful crankshaft design. Everything else typically requires counter weights and balance shafts to run smoothly.

As for horsepower, 140HP isn't much except for in a bike. Even my 2,800 lb Camry is dog slow with 130 HP, 17 seconds at best, even revving the ****** out of it. What's that 130 HP going to do in a 2,200 lb Civic, 16s at best? Thats still slow as hell any way you look at it. A reasonably fast car to me (ie: definitively faster than a run of the mill family sedan) is at *least* 13s, though I'm more impressed by 9 and 10 second street cars.

In my Camry I pop the clutch at 5g and the car lugs and wants to stall the engine and cause drive train oscillation (ie: jerky bouncy takeoff that doesn't die down until you take your foot off the gas for a few seconds) because the inertia of the car is far too great for that weak little engine to compensate for, and thats even with a heavy steel flywheel as far as I know.

I do the same in my Cobra and the wheels light up, you get pushed back in your seat, and that 3,700lb pig of a car wants to MOVE NOW; the engine clearly over powers the car and has no sign of yielding to inertia. Granted there is a 650 horsepower difference, the Cobra is still 1,000 lbs heavier.

So 140HP isn't really that much, granted the weak ass 2v 260 HP 4.6 V8 isn't much in those pig SN95s either; the LS2 340 HP in the 4,100 lb Chargers, etc. doens't do it for me either. Don't even get me started about 6,000 lb trucks with "a powerful 400 HP V8" When did cars begin to be such pigs?

I don't know where you got your info....a V12 is a great engine design.

haven't heard of many balance shafts beyond 6 cylinders though either.

never heard of a 90deg V8 being a well naturally balanced engine either....you are being too pro-cobra and not seeing the real-world.

2200 lbs is not a light car with you mentioning the civic. My 92 Acura GSR had like 160hp and turned a 14.x 1/4 mile though, 0-60 was a little below 6 secs.

You seem to have gearing confused with HP as well.

SN95 mustangs had a lot of problems in the beginning.

Sorry, I did miss the V12 and the V16, both are naturally balanced engines. I was only considering popular daily driver engines in widely available cars: I4, I6, V6, V8, and of the four only the I6 and the cross-plane 90 deg V8 have optimal balance. But my point really was that number of cylinders alone does not determine harmonic balance, for example a V10 is less balanced than a 90 V8 however a V12 has perfect balance.

A V10 can use a 72 deg setup with a balance shaft, as one example of engines beyond the the I4 and V6 that require balance shafts.

A 90 deg V8 can attain optimal harmonic characteristics with a counterweighted cross-plane crank. I should have been clear that I was refering to the need of external balance shafts and rotating masses beyond those essential to the engine, when using the term 'balanced'. The I6 and V8, as said in my previous post, can be balanced with only careful choice crank design, bank angle, and firing order. In order to be balanced, all I4's and V6's require auxilary balancing systems no matter what, including the 60 deg V6.

2,200 lbs is not light but 2,650 lbs (GSR) is? I'm talking about cars you and I are likely to encounter on public road ways, not stripped down race cars with bare metal on the inside (if that's what you mean by 2,200 lbs being heavy for a Civic)

As for gearing, the Camry I beleive has 3.93 final drive gears and with only 130HP/145TQ it lugs like a pig even though it's only 2,800 lbs or so. The Cobra on the other hand even when it was stock with around 425 HP had no problem propelling the 3,700 lb car with 3.55 gears.

Clearly more power is always a good thing, and 140 HP just isn't that much no matter how you look at it. Think about it this way: cars have a fixed entry cost as far as weight is concerned. Even the cheapest smallest and lightest economy car is going to be at a minimum 2,000 lbs up front cost in weight due to the minimal neccessary components that can be called a automobile. These cars, such as the Civic, Geo, etc., typically come with 80-100 HP just to get that base weight barely rolling. And 140 HP isn't that much more than what is minimally needed to get the lightest and most economical cars moving.

Personally I feel at a disadvantage and inadequate in traffic with anything less than 300 HP at the crank, but your mileage will vary. I certainly don't like being in traffic with a 130 HP car of ANY make or model when all the other cars surrounding me typically have 200+ HP. You have to floor the car to the ground at its redline in every gear all the time just to barely be able to keep up with the rest of traffic in front of you casually pulling away with only a toe on the pedal.

Since people around here drive like overly aggressive d1cks, and push and shove, esp if they know their car is better; they can deny you and exert power over you by speeding up if you try to pass and slowing down when you back off, deliberately trying to race passed you when their lane ends on a merge even if you are going 20 over in the correct lane, etc. Talk about getting last dibbs on maneuvering, you pretty much wait for everyone else to cut you off and push you around first and be their b1tch then you get whatever space or lane happens to be left. I don't have those problems in the Cobra, and it's so less stressful to drive knowing I won't be picked on and if I do I can easily 'defend myself'.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Since they're pretty cheap and and actually increase the HP somewhat I'm thinking about putting in a cold air intake in my chrysler.

The question is, can I use the factory air intake tube and just buy a coupler and filter, or do I have to get a new intake tube as well? Thanks a whole bunch!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA....*gasp*.....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

umm...it actually helps out at higher RPM's and the response is a hell of a lot better. And I'm sure "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA" doesnt answer my question. Thanks.

Yeah, it does. It will add nothing but noise to your 100hp four banger. Mark my words.

chrysler makes 100hp four bangers? jebus.

Yeah, th 2.4 i4 produces a LOL-worthy 140hp.

I got a 2.5L V-6. And are you thinking of exhaust when you say it will produce "nothing but noise"?

Same size engine here, and After market exhaust + Cold air intake added about 25-30 HP total. Engine is from (and in) a 1999 Mazda 626. Its the Japanese engine however, and let me tell you, it puts out pretty well. The thing ain't a race car, but it's sure fun to drive (and auto cross once in awhile). Due to some fvcked up circumstances I had to replace the engine 2 mos after I bought the car. I got a used Japanese engine for like $1200, with 35 more HP out of the box, and got most of the money back when I sued the seller (he deserved it, I was able to prove that the rod bearing that went was broken at the time of purchase, and the problem had been covered up with motor honey. Too bad he stated right in the auction the oil had been changed, otherwise he might've ben able to get out of it.)

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: newParadigm
Same size engine here, and After market exhaust + Cold air intake added about 25-30 HP total. Engine is from (and in) a 1999 Mazda 626. Its the Japanese engine however, and let me tell you, it puts out pretty well. The thing ain't a race car, but it's sure fun to drive (and auto cross once in awhile). Due to some fvcked up circumstances I had to replace the engine 2 mos after I bought the car. I got a used Japanese engine for like $1200, with 35 more HP out of the box, and got most of the money back when I sued the seller (he deserved it, I was able to prove that the rod bearing that went was broken at the time of purchase, and the problem had been covered up with motor honey. Too bad he stated right in the auction the oil had been changed, otherwise he might've ben able to get out of it.)

If that's a full back... that's where your increase in power came from

 

[50cent1228]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Since they're pretty cheap and and actually increase the HP somewhat I'm thinking about putting in a cold air intake in my chrysler.

The question is, can I use the factory air intake tube and just buy a coupler and filter, or do I have to get a new intake tube as well? Thanks a whole bunch!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA....*gasp*.....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

umm...it actually helps out at higher RPM's and the response is a hell of a lot better. And I'm sure "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA" doesnt answer my question. Thanks.

Yeah, it does. It will add nothing but noise to your 100hp four banger. Mark my words.

that noise sounds kool though

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Sorry, I did miss the V12 and the V16, both are naturally balanced engines. I was only considering popular daily driver engines in widely available cars: I4, I6, V6, V8, and of the four only the I6 and the cross-plane 90 deg V8 have optimal balance. But my point really was that number of cylinders alone does not determine harmonic balance, for example a V10 is less balanced than a 90 V8 however a V12 has perfect balance.

A V10 can use a 72 deg setup with a balance shaft, as one example of engines beyond the the I4 and V6 that require balance shafts.

A 90 deg V8 can attain optimal harmonic characteristics with a counterweighted cross-plane crank. I should have been clear that I was refering to the need of external balance shafts and rotating masses beyond those essential to the engine, when using the term 'balanced'. The I6 and V8, as said in my previous post, can be balanced with only careful choice crank design, bank angle, and firing order. In order to be balanced, all I4's and V6's require auxilary balancing systems no matter what, including the 60 deg V6.

2,200 lbs is not light but 2,650 lbs (GSR) is? I'm talking about cars you and I are likely to encounter on public road ways, not stripped down race cars with bare metal on the inside (if that's what you mean by 2,200 lbs being heavy for a Civic)

As for gearing, the Camry I beleive has 3.93 final drive gears and with only 130HP/145TQ it lugs like a pig even though it's only 2,800 lbs or so. The Cobra on the other hand even when it was stock with around 425 HP had no problem propelling the 3,700 lb car with 3.55 gears.

You had me until here....then I had to self-medicate.

Originally posted by: exdeath
Clearly more power is always a good thing, and 140 HP just isn't that much no matter how you look at it. Think about it this way: cars have a fixed entry cost as far as weight is concerned. Even the cheapest smallest and lightest economy car is going to be at a minimum 2,000 lbs up front cost in weight due to the minimal neccessary components that can be called a automobile. These cars, such as the Civic, Geo, etc., typically come with 80-100 HP just to get that base weight barely rolling. And 140 HP isn't that much more than what is minimally needed to get the lightest and most economical cars moving.

Personally I feel at a disadvantage and inadequate in traffic with anything less than 300 HP at the crank, but your mileage will vary. I certainly don't like being in traffic with a 130 HP car of ANY make or model when all the other cars surrounding me typically have 200+ HP. You have to floor the car to the ground at its redline in every gear all the time just to barely be able to keep up with the rest of traffic in front of you casually pulling away with only a toe on the pedal.

This too I don't get you only talked economy models. Economy models are never ever ever ver (it costs money to buy a vowel) going to be the best.

300HP at the crank was your save in this thread I think...anyone talking power should talk wheel HP (WHP) or parasitic loss with it.
[/quote]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Since people around here drive like overly aggressive d1cks, and push and shove, esp if they know their car is better; they can deny you and exert power over you by speeding up if you try to pass and slowing down when you back off, deliberately trying to race passed you when their lane ends on a merge even if you are going 20 over in the correct lane, etc. Talk about getting last dibbs on maneuvering, you pretty much wait for everyone else to cut you off and push you around first and be their b1tch then you get whatever space or lane happens to be left. I don't have those problems in the Cobra, and it's so less stressful to drive knowing I won't be picked on and if I do I can easily 'defend myself'.

my head assploded. I can defend myself from asshats even in a Mitsubishi Precis (Hyundai Excel) I bought in between a 1966 and 1988 Mustang GT back in like 1990.

My wife hates when I force an SUV or big truck to discover off-roading. You will get more effort from me if you have a full rack of KC lights or a train horn.

Trust me and try it...either way you lose. Hit me (never happened, everyone either backed off or went offroad...I have never destroyed anyone's ride doing this and once I actually came back and helped them and they had no idea that I was who they just tried to kill...they can thank my japanese wife on that.) and I own you...again you'd lose, I am mostly willing to let things slide though. Unless you picked me out in your traffic road rage ritual, I am wearing major blinders to you, but yes I noticed your 2x" something wheels and stereo... you go dawg!

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: exdeath

Sorry, I did miss the V12 and the V16, both are naturally balanced engines. I was only considering popular daily driver engines in widely available cars: I4, I6, V6, V8, and of the four only the I6 and the cross-plane 90 deg V8 have optimal balance. But my point really was that number of cylinders alone does not determine harmonic balance, for example a V10 is less balanced than a 90 V8 however a V12 has perfect balance.

A V10 can use a 72 deg setup with a balance shaft, as one example of engines beyond the the I4 and V6 that require balance shafts.

A 90 deg V8 can attain optimal harmonic characteristics with a counterweighted cross-plane crank. I should have been clear that I was refering to the need of external balance shafts and rotating masses beyond those essential to the engine, when using the term 'balanced'. The I6 and V8, as said in my previous post, can be balanced with only careful choice crank design, bank angle, and firing order. In order to be balanced, all I4's and V6's require auxilary balancing systems no matter what, including the 60 deg V6.

2,200 lbs is not light but 2,650 lbs (GSR) is? I'm talking about cars you and I are likely to encounter on public road ways, not stripped down race cars with bare metal on the inside (if that's what you mean by 2,200 lbs being heavy for a Civic)

As for gearing, the Camry I beleive has 3.93 final drive gears and with only 130HP/145TQ it lugs like a pig even though it's only 2,800 lbs or so. The Cobra on the other hand even when it was stock with around 425 HP had no problem propelling the 3,700 lb car with 3.55 gears.

You had me until here....then I had to self-medicate.

Originally posted by: exdeath
Clearly more power is always a good thing, and 140 HP just isn't that much no matter how you look at it. Think about it this way: cars have a fixed entry cost as far as weight is concerned. Even the cheapest smallest and lightest economy car is going to be at a minimum 2,000 lbs up front cost in weight due to the minimal neccessary components that can be called a automobile. These cars, such as the Civic, Geo, etc., typically come with 80-100 HP just to get that base weight barely rolling. And 140 HP isn't that much more than what is minimally needed to get the lightest and most economical cars moving.

Personally I feel at a disadvantage and inadequate in traffic with anything less than 300 HP at the crank, but your mileage will vary. I certainly don't like being in traffic with a 130 HP car of ANY make or model when all the other cars surrounding me typically have 200+ HP. You have to floor the car to the ground at its redline in every gear all the time just to barely be able to keep up with the rest of traffic in front of you casually pulling away with only a toe on the pedal.

This too I don't get you only talked economy models. Economy models are never ever ever ver (it costs money to buy a vowel) going to be the best.

300HP at the crank was your save in this thread I think...anyone talking power should talk wheel HP (WHP) or parasitic loss with it.

Originally posted by: exdeath
Since people around here drive like overly aggressive d1cks, and push and shove, esp if they know their car is better; they can deny you and exert power over you by speeding up if you try to pass and slowing down when you back off, deliberately trying to race passed you when their lane ends on a merge even if you are going 20 over in the correct lane, etc. Talk about getting last dibbs on maneuvering, you pretty much wait for everyone else to cut you off and push you around first and be their b1tch then you get whatever space or lane happens to be left. I don't have those problems in the Cobra, and it's so less stressful to drive knowing I won't be picked on and if I do I can easily 'defend myself'.

my head assploded. I can defend myself from asshats even in a Mitsubishi Precis (Hyundai Excel) I bought in between a 1966 and 1988 Mustang GT back in like 1990.

My wife hates when I force an SUV or big truck to discover off-roading. You will get more effort from me if you have a full rack of KC lights or a train horn.

Trust me and try it...either way you lose. Hit me (never happened, everyone either backed off or went offroad...I have never destroyed anyone's ride doing this and once I actually came back and helped them and they had no idea that I was who they just tried to kill...they can thank my japanese wife on that.) and I own you...again you'd lose, I am mostly willing to let things slide though. Unless you picked me out in your traffic road rage ritual, I am wearing major blinders to you, but yes I noticed your 2x" something wheels and stereo... you go dawg!
[/quote]

Yeah it's funny, you can brake check them and they won't hit you because they'll do anything to not mess up their chrome grill and 28" rims lol.

Yeah it's possible to defend yourself in other cars... but with say 140 HP like the original value we started talking about, it's more likely to be a marginal victory at best. Or you'll have to use you environment (ie: hope you can box someone in who is trying to be a dick before they catch up because they have a faster car and you know it). There is just too high likelyhood that many many more people out there are going to have faster cars than your 140 HP, than there are with cars with less than or equal to that. Too much risk to be pwnt IMO. I find that as your cars horsepower and acceleration goes up linearly, the pool of people willing and ABLE to start sh1t with you decays exponentially. I like to enjoy driving in peace, without watching my rear view all the time worrying about people trying to bust a nut by pissing in my cereal just because they can.

I'm of the type that likes to obliterate competition with a clear cut victory and I avoid confrontations if I know I may be at a possible disadvantage. I don't like taking chances, I enjoy the extremely wide, albeit unfair, margin of victory I have with my car. There is no "well if I did this, or if the road was 10 feet longer I could have beat you or if there was a full moon I could have beat you..." type of excuses. I like my victories to be like that of using a nuclear weapon in a gun fight: total domination and annihilation of my aggressor to such an extent that nobody can possibly dispute it without being declared mentally ill or blind.

Is it unfair? Abso-fvcking-lutely, but I don?t really give a rats ass. Nobody in 200 HP Mitsubishi Eclipses and 260 HP Mustang GTs or 240 HP Nissan Altimas really seemed to care they are being unfair and unreasonable when they revved next to my 130 HP Camry all the time. :frown: So I will gladly return the favor with my Cobra when some ric3r starts revving at me or some kid who just bought a new sporty looking car with no balls thinks he owns the road because his first kill off the lot was a 2 car length pass on a Camry. There is nothing maginal or questionable about it. 700 HP > 140 HP. No matter how you try to slice it, its futile to even try. Payback?s a b1tch. :evil:

Are there people faster than me? Of course, but it is extremely rare, and they are fellow car enthusiasts that know what they are doing, and we respect each others cars no matter what. Contrast that with some spoiled 16 yr old who just got wasted in the shiny new BMW they got for free for their birthday. At the next light he asks how much horsepower you have that you beat him so easily, you quote let's say 1000 HP. Can you see the brat going home and throwing a tantrum because he can't find a 1001 HP BMW on Yahoo autos that his parents can go out and buy tomorrow so he can make his pee pee feel better? Now he feels as powerless as the people in those Corollas and Geos he spent all day taunting before you got to him.

FYI: I'm not an aggressive driver and I'm never out to be a d1ck, but I will be damned if someone starts it with me first and they don't get their ass beat and put to bed.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
#1 Where did I say that?

#2 Shut up, shut up, shut up. 140hp in modern cars is fvck-all*pi. Which is fvck all.

#3 A CAI on a 140hp car may produce 1, maybe 2hp. By the time that gets from the flywheel to the road, combined with your terrible driving, I assure you it will make no bloody difference except to make more noise.

#4 Trust me, you're the idiot. On ALL levels.

you seem to be an angry little man. Not everyone does things to their cars for ultimate power.

You started with the insults dipsh!t. Some of us still remember your epic nerd-battle with a certain member on this board. If anyone has issues, it is most certainly you.